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Age of Heroes Headlines:  
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19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~ This MEGA THREAD is 1635 pages long: 1 200 400 600 800 1000 ... 1185 1186 1187 1188 1189 ... 1200 1400 1600 1635 · «PREV / NEXT»
frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted October 08, 2015 04:10 PM

3lion said:
No that's not what I'm saying As fans, I meant, those who like H7, and haters who not so much


I know One thing should be common for us all: we all want the best game

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sobaka770
sobaka770


Hired Hero
posted October 08, 2015 04:21 PM

Galaad said:
sobaka770 said:
It's a futile battle, I already pointed out the hypocrisy a few pages ago to no effect. Baseless moaning without actual first-hand experience is laughable, no matter what Steam or Metacritic says.

Please don't say people who played both betas and even pre-alpha for some have no first hand experience. As if core of the game were to be fixed in a vanilla which launch is even more disastrous than I expected. Good job with your ad-hominems, you'll do great in the forums.


First-of-all, I disagree that playing the beta and alpha is the same as playing the released finished game. If you played beta/alpha then you have first-hand experience with beta/alpha respecitvely, limited functionality, systems and bugs included.

As for Steam reviews, if anyone read them: most negative reviews don't come from some game systems, Erwan's direction or else, they come from bugs. It's understandable. It's also being fixed (hopefully?). We can talk about the buggy state of the game some more, report them in the thread but bugs don't ruin the game, if there is a will and direction to fix them (see Diablo 3, Elemental: War of Magic etc,) Another part comes from the terrible first impression which Heroes 7 does to new players: non-animated campaign cutscenes and lack of tutorial are so going to attract new people to the franchise.

On the other hand making people who enjoy the game in this state feel bad because of all the drive for "negativity" for things in game you don't even own is not very nice. It's so much easier to use third-party data to prove your point of view and continue the beating without the burden of going through an actual final experience. It's okay maybe to come and say: "I don't buy the game as I consider it bad" once, but, since you don't, isn't the Heroes 7+ forum more appropriate?

NB. Sarcasm, by definition, is a veiled form of contempt or insult. Therefore respectful and polite sarcasm is borderline oxymoron. So maybe I'm blunt but the message is the same.
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PROJ
PROJ


Known Hero
posted October 08, 2015 04:24 PM

Yeah I'd disagree with the notion that the game mechanic systems that are in place are a significant reason why people are rating this game poorly.  The bugs, optimization, and unfinished feeling in many areas are undoubtedly a substantially larger cause for it.  I'll defend the game mechanics because I think in general, they are good, and comparable to the best of other homm games.  Are they perfect?  Nah, I'd definitely change some stuff if I could, but it's definitely not in any way a deal breaker.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 08, 2015 04:30 PM

verriker said:
JollyJoker said:
@ verriker

I disagree with you. If you trash a product, you automatically trash the mastermind(s) behind the product.

That said - so what, err, lol. It must be allowed to critisize stuff.


we probably have to disagree, in my opinion if I see a turd lying in my ice cream bowl and say "this turd has ruined my ice cream", I am not necessarily criticizing whoever squatted over my bowl and produced it, I am only criticizing their work lol

if I would specifically say, "screw you, Erwin, for ruining my ice cream" (Erwin is a randomly selected name for this example), that would be different, it would be personally critical of the squatter lol

only when I specifically criticize, again for the sake of example, Erwin, am I setting out to criticize Erwin, but even that is nothing personal, I am critical specifically of him in his role but if he vacated the role or did not produce turds I would stop lol


Just put yourself into the shoes of the squatter: you really made an effort to produce something, and then someone says, man, that product of yours is really a piece of crap - wouldn't that hurt you?

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Hermes
Hermes


Famous Hero
posted October 08, 2015 04:30 PM

I don't like fighting, but I'm with Chris on that one. He has been pointing out your attacks for what, a few weeks? Imagine how other people feel who like the game and speak out , like myself, and get trashed every. Single. Time. No wonder why this community has like 5 active members.

People like Verriker who have not play the game at all but still bash it, make fun of dev team while concentrating on one single guy and his facial expressions - as if you don't make silly faces yourself. Maybe just jealous who knows? I feel these people would never buy and play the game anyway, even if it was like copy of Heroes 3 but better - you would find the reason to bash it. For copy pasting or not innovating.  I doubt these people even play heroes, period.

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3lion
3lion


Known Hero
posted October 08, 2015 04:33 PM

sobaka770 said:


On the other hand making people who enjoy the game in this state feel bad because of all the drive for "negativity" for things in game you don't even own is not very nice. It's so much easier to use third-party data to prove your point of view and continue the beating without the burden of going through an actual final experience.


Well I was enjoying game mechanics during Beta 2 and I am enjoying it right now in release. Thus I can say that since the Beta the game mechanics hasn't change much. So if one didn't like it in Beta, I'm absolutely sure he won't like it in release either.

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted October 08, 2015 04:36 PM

sobaka770 said:
It's so much easier to use third-party data to prove your point of view and continue the beating without the burden of going through an actual final experience.


Not easier, but a lot cheaper. I will not give 50 euros for something that I probably won't like (as I've played beta). What Ubi could do is provide demo, so we can go through 'the burden of going through an actual final experience' abd see if we like the game.

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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted October 08, 2015 04:41 PM

frostymuaddib said:
What Ubi could do is provide demo, so we can go through 'the burden of going through an actual final experience' abd see if we like the game.

Demos usually decrease sales, so I won't expect too much of these in the near future from big gaming companies (except for Nintendo, they still release them quite often.)

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properkheldar
properkheldar


Famous Hero
Keeper of books
posted October 08, 2015 04:47 PM

I too enjoy the game so far. The campaigns are way better then H6 and necro is really fun to play, as Elvin pointed out earlier. This "moral high ground" attitude that gets thrown around here is getting old. Hating Ubi, Erwan and Ashan shouldnt be a initiation rite for feeling comfortable posting stuff on this forum. There are still much that has to be adressed with H7, and for us enjoying and playing the game that is what needs to be discussed and brought to light.
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"Man spends his life in reasoning on the past, in complaining of the present, in fearing future."
- Antoine Rivarol

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted October 08, 2015 04:50 PM

JollyJoker said:
Just put yourself into the shoes of the squatter: you really made an effort to produce something, and then someone says, man, that product of yours is really a piece of crap - wouldn't that hurt you?


if the squatter is particularly oversensitive and attached to their work, they may take it personally and feel hurt, but if they are thinking rationally they really shouldn't, I believe anyone in a creative professional capacity must maintain a thick skin and improve with criticism, that's the name of the game! lol

for example just look at Hermes above here, he has a beef with me and criticizes my style as a poster, even throws in some nasty ad hominems, but do I start sobbing and yelling "I am wounded" or "woe is me"? no, I filter out the constructive aspects of his message (that my posts can't just rely on funny Erwin faces for a cheap laugh, that I need to mix it up with some more serious Erwin faces too) and better myself, it's all you can do lol
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 08, 2015 05:00 PM

Ah, but it's not about not taking criticism to heart - it's about ability. If you say that a product is crap you automatically assume that the product could have been better, which means, the producer performed unsatisfactory - except if it's not his fault, but it has to be SOMEONE'S fault, because crap is associated with "failure to produce something better".

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted October 08, 2015 05:00 PM

frostymuaddib said:

Not easier, but a lot cheaper. I will not give 50 euros for something that I probably won't like (as I've played beta). What Ubi could do is provide demo, so we can go through 'the burden of going through an actual final experience' abd see if we like the game.


H6 provided a demo, which I played. Was it a demo? Well, anyway, it was enough to ensure the experience that made me not buy the game.

H7 provided SC, which helped grasp this and that in which led me also not to buy the game (although communication skills to present their product properly were ever terrible).

And I don't need to play it to understand what pleases me and don't. If it was a game such as H3, again, I wouldn't buy it either, because there's no reason to do so. As far as perception goes, H7 is a wannabe of this and that and has no soul of its own, it presents nothing really singular, groundbreaking or positively surprising (except, as some stated, the fact that it resembles some of the old game, which is not something that compels me to buy it, given that I can play the old games as well without having to upgrade my systems or wait for bugs to get fixed). I don't care whose blame is that either. The thing is out already and far from something I would ever consider even trying. You don't have to step on a land mine to understand that it can explode and hurt you.

But again, there will be other games and perhaps, after some months of issues being fixed, balancing addressed and add-ons, if it ever gets that far, the game might show something unique. But I'll leave hope on that situation for those who still bother.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted October 08, 2015 05:03 PM

Brukernavn said:
Thanks, never watched those.

You're welcome.
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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted October 08, 2015 05:06 PM

"constructive criticism" implies that the game will be fixed.

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sobaka770
sobaka770


Hired Hero
posted October 08, 2015 05:06 PM

frostymuaddib said:
sobaka770 said:
It's so much easier to use third-party data to prove your point of view and continue the beating without the burden of going through an actual final experience.


Not easier, but a lot cheaper. I will not give 50 euros for something that I probably won't like (as I've played beta). What Ubi could do is provide demo, so we can go through 'the burden of going through an actual final experience' abd see if we like the game.


One doesn't negate the other. I postulate that it's both "easier" and cheaper and, additionally, still kinda wrong within the confines of a discussion of an already-released game. After all this is a forum of quite hardcore Heroes' fans, surely 50 EUR for a game, which is not a yearly Call-of-Duty/FIFA cashgrab/tax errr... release, is not such a huge investment.

Of course, that is if the person wants to provide solid tangible feedback on the actual game and discuss it properly, and not continue with such wonderful pastimes as blame assignment, speculation, what ifs, features that will never happen in Heroes 7, or other people.



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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted October 08, 2015 05:09 PM

JollyJoker said:
Ah, but it's not about not taking criticism to heart - it's about ability. If you say that a product is crap you automatically assume that the product could have been better, which means, the producer performed unsatisfactory - except if it's not his fault, but it has to be SOMEONE'S fault, because crap is associated with "failure to produce something better".


it really depends, in some cases I would agree (I think Team Erwin really does simply lack the talent and ability to create a great Heroes game), but someone is not necessarily always to blame for a badly-received or failed product,

even if everyone does their best and is among the very best in their field, difficult to surpass, their products can always turn out badly because of bad circumstances or misfortune beyond what anyone's talent or ability can compensate for lol
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Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted October 08, 2015 05:16 PM
Edited by Steyn at 17:17, 08 Oct 2015.

Galaad said:

I don't see why anyone would need a war machine to run a game with such outdated graphics.


They are called warfare units now Galaad

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted October 08, 2015 05:22 PM

@PandaTar I agree with you fully



sobaka770 said:

After all this is a forum of quite hardcore Heroes' fans, surely 50 EUR for a game, which is not a yearly Call-of-Duty/FIFA cashgrab/tax errr... release, is not such a huge investment.



I consider myself almost Hardcore fan (as there are the ones who know more about the franchise than me), and I won't give a penny for something I won't like. Do you give 50 euros for something you dislike?

Oh, and I think that H7 is, in a way, cashgrab with it's false advertising and overpricing (soooo much recycled stuff).

sobaka770 said:

Of course, that is if the person wants to provide solid tangible feedback on the actual game and discuss it properly, and not continue with such wonderful pastimes as blame assignment, speculation, what ifs, features that will never happen in Heroes 7, or other people.



I still think that your assumption that you must own the game to give ssolid feedback is wrong. In the end, what was the point of Beta?

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted October 08, 2015 05:25 PM

Isn't it obvious how Erwan always gets the upper hand, seeing people bashing others (and vice versa)? That is why he always can release *such* games. One tries to point out the flaws and is always pulled back by someone else.

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Kenishi
Kenishi


Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted October 08, 2015 06:02 PM

Just to brake the thread here this is an interesting piece of news/law

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/how-citizens-advice-works/citizens-advice-consumer-work/the-consumer-rights-act-2015/

For now it seams to be applicable in GB but maybe other country's might start to delve in the matter and adopt similar laws which in theory would make game publisher more strict and have better Q.C. in regards to the product's they release.

I hope messes like this, Tony Hawk 5  and the latest Batman game are something that  will never repeat itself (not saying H7 is as bad but still the number of complaints on the board regarding bugs is ... worrisome)

Also to the whole discussion regarding the opinions and beliefs, each and every individual has his on opinion and every one should have there right to express it as log as it's not harming/insulting other people and or there opinions.

The whole discussion on better PC runs ok less bugs than weaker PC.

1. If said PC does not meat minimum requirements it's on you they have release the minimum bar to play the game so you bought the game knowing that.
2. It works on my better PC .. yes and no it could be that on higher end PC it takes longer to get to the issue. And usually this happens because the game is not well optimized.

For Example a bug that results in a memory leak it takes longer to bring down a 16 GB machine than a 4 GB machine so might be an explanations.

For the time being the developers should try to clean up the bugs optimize and improve the stability of the game ... all the rest are well might never be addressed (gameplay improvement etc) because in there opinion it how the game is meant to be played ...
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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