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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 06:17 PM |
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Well I don't think the country has that much to do with anything really. You can have small very dedicated studio working even in expensive country and they can do great game with time. I mean think for example the original StarCraft, the team was small and they were all in for the game.
Here it's Ubisofts decision to hire bigger studio from more expensive country with deadline set and payment is as stipulated in the contract(probably not much "royalties" from sales so Limbic didn't want to take risks or they just didn't believe in themselves or to the game). There are many things to account for when it comes to hiring the studio. We can only speculate where the problem is because we don't know the contents of the contract Limbic and Ubi did. Just saying Limbic/Germany is more expensive country than Nival/Russia and BH/Hungary is in reality only small part of the equation.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted November 13, 2015 06:40 PM |
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Galaad said:
I'm sorry but I fail to see how any of this goes in their favor.
Oh no, no, Gal, I'm not trying to put them in a "favorable" light, not at all. What I'm saying is that "H6's financial success" does not mean "H7 had a good budget" for the reasons I enumerated.
Gonna agree about M&M XI though.
Stevie said:
Can't take your word for it. In fact, I know MMX was greenlit in a time when Uberflacid saw an easy profit in RPGs like Legend of Grimrock, so they figured they'd give it a try with Legacy. Never saw H6 earnings as part of the rationale. But even if that's true, it just goes to further prove how poorly they managed their budget.
Hm, Legacy - 2014, H6 - 2011. For me it seems probable that part of H6's profits were given to the Legacy.
Not gonna argue about poor mismanagement though, just look at what they did with DoC. It makes even me sad. 
verriker said:
most of them were already greenlit and well underway before Heroes 6 even came out,
it says a lot about their expectations for Heroes 6 but nothing about its success, you could just as easily argue they had to cancel Raiders and gave Legacy no budget precisely because Heroes 6 was so bad lol
Em, how do we know that "most of them were already greenlit and well underway"?  Legacy came in 2014 while H6 arrived in 2011...
And also it should be noted that Heroes Online and DoC were truly free-to-play (played them both myself, never spend a single penny on HO, for instance) before some point in time when they started to introduce more stupid economic design (which ultimately, with BB's "effort", literally killed the game).
About Raiders and Legacy. Raiders were cancelled 'coz they didn't had a chance to succesfully enter the market (not with such a game, and it's pretty much already late to enter that market anyway).
Legacy was a risky project that became a real game due to Marzhin and a stroke a luck (Legends). It's kinda obvious they won't give much money on such a project.
P.S.: that twit about CoH2 was posted in... July? You know, we're not in stasis, time flows, maybe someday we'll even see M&M XI.
But hey, Dark Messiah 2 is more probable than CoH2.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 07:09 PM |
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Edited by Bitula at 19:11, 13 Nov 2015.
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Stevie said:
Well, in case you haven't played Heroes 7, then Limbic appears to be the new Black Hole as far as their coding prowess goes, if not even worse, and that has nothing to do with low incomes and whatnot because they are based in Germany, so it's as good as it gets. The last time they snowed up, namely MMX - Legacy, they put it on the Unity engine. What are they gonna blame now, UE3? The pace of patching is indeed admirable but the game looks only marginally better as they seem to fix some things and snow up others. And even so it is not even close enough to be called a release version. Performance issues, multiplayer not working, crashes and corrupt files, you name it.
OK, I don't know, you say it's a junk game, some say it's enjoyable. If it's a junk, then you are right. Yet I don't share this. Maybe later I will. I was just talking about my experience with the HU IT sector. It’s specific to HU and has specific effect on individual companies in HU. So I don’t see how it is not relevant when selecting a company for development task.
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 07:32 PM |
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Edited by Bitula at 19:34, 13 Nov 2015.
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TD said:
Well I don't think the country has that much to do with anything really. You can have small very dedicated studio working even in expensive country and they can do great game with time. I mean think for example the original StarCraft, the team was small and they were all in for the game.
Here it's Ubisofts decision to hire bigger studio from more expensive country with deadline set and payment is as stipulated in the contract(probably not much "royalties" from sales so Limbic didn't want to take risks or they just didn't believe in themselves or to the game). There are many things to account for when it comes to hiring the studio. We can only speculate where the problem is because we don't know the contents of the contract Limbic and Ubi did. Just saying Limbic/Germany is more expensive country than Nival/Russia and BH/Hungary is in reality only small part of the equation.
Small dedicated studios in HU have migrated to Germany, lol. But seriously small companies don’t fair too well in HU. It’s a poor country. Anyway isn’t Limbic a small dedicated studio  ? I think it’s much smaller than BH (just speculating). I mean how would you find one? How do you know they are the ones to develop a homm game? Also, note, that I am talking about 2012-15 or so. Things were different in the past, even in HU. Situation was much better, quality was much more important. So examples from the past, like StarCraft are not too relevant today.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 08:03 PM |
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Bitula said:
Anyway isn’t Limbic a small dedicated studio ? I think it’s much smaller than BH (just speculating). I mean how would you find one? How do you know they are the ones to develop a homm game? Also, note, that I am talking about 2012-15 or so.
No. It's small(about 50-60 people I think I read somewhere with 40 or so who worked on h7), but it is actually little bit bigger company than BH was as I understood. For small the purpose I had in mind was more like 10-20 people anyway that are barely even companies anyhow. I also don't see Limbic as dedicated to be frank. I find it much more likely that they negotiated deal for making h7 for set amount of money rather than taking bigger part of sales(especially knowing how BH ended up). This in turn caused good bit of the cutting corners as they tried to make everything as cheap as possible as they didn't believe in the game/sales. Having no stake in sales means no enthusiasm to take risks which in turn partly caused the low/medium quality of the game. For patching Ubi has most likely made a contract(unless they had set terms of quality, sales or whatever in original contract to reach certain level) so it will be continued X months till it stops, if sales were satisfactory Ubi ordered an expansion.
As for finding studio/people to develop HoMM-series, we got internet don't we? Ubi could put up a site to see who would be interested in the series and with what kinds of terms and go from there. Just blindly offering it to some companies can do the trick, but really I would rather have as many companies "available" to see which have more potential.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted November 13, 2015 08:40 PM |
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Edited by verriker at 20:50, 13 Nov 2015.
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Sandro400 said:
Em, how do we know that "most of them were already greenlit and well underway"? Legacy came in 2014 while H6 arrived in 2011...
now steady on Sandro400, I know you love to jump on semantic gaps, but I was deliberately very careful this time to say most of them were and not all, just for you lol
if you would look at literally any of the other projects you mentioned, except H7, they were all introduced along with Heroes 6 from late 2011 to late 2012, and Ashan isn't burned in flames in a day, they are not evidence that Heroes 6 had amazing sales and most of them failed lol
didn't Jolly Joker mention the other day that the long delay of Heroes 6 actually forced them to cancel yet another tie-in game they were planning, which we still don't even know of lol
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted November 13, 2015 08:46 PM |
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Sometimes I get a strange feeling that Verriker is in fact some kind of Ubisoft intern...
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted November 13, 2015 08:48 PM |
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I thought it was obvious that he is Erwin?
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted November 13, 2015 09:08 PM |
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verriker said:
now steady on Sandro400, I know you love to jump on semantic gaps, but I was deliberately very careful this time to say most of them were and not all, just for you lol
Now steady on Verriker, I know you love to misread my posts, but I won't even trying to jump on any kind of gaps, I simply asked you about "most of them" and gave you an example of "one of many" that might very possibly be "funded" by H6.
Don't be so paranoid, I'm your friendly neighbor. Ask Galaad. ^^
verriker said:
if you would look at literally any of the other projects you mentioned, except H7, they were all introduced along with Heroes 6 from late 2011 to late 2012, and Ashan isn't burned in flames in a day, they are not evidence that Heroes 6 had amazing sales and most of them failed lol
Of course there's no evidence, why should we take the sheer amount of products that came after H6 as evidence, right? ^^
I, for example, prefer to agree with Stevie about the poor management. At least they proved their "managing talents" with DoC and HO.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted November 13, 2015 09:17 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
Now steady on Verriker, I know you love to misread my posts, but I won't even trying to jump on any kind of gaps, I simply asked you about "most of them" and gave you an example of "one of many" that might very possibly be "funded" by H6.
Don't be so paranoid, I'm your friendly neighbor. Ask Galaad. ^^
Of course there's no evidence, why should we take the sheer amount of products that came after H6 as evidence, right? ^^
I, for example, prefer to agree with Stevie about the poor management. At least they proved their "managing talents" with DoC and HO.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 10:56 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 22:56, 13 Nov 2015.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 14, 2015 11:00 AM |
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The_green_drag said:
DoubleDeck said:
Anyone have the same problem as me in H7....can't seem to rotate camera with mouse since patch 1.4....can't keybind it either...?
You can toggle it on and off in the options button now and since that patch they turned it off for everyone. You just have to flip it on.
Can someone tell me which button this is (camera rotate with mouse lock)?
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vitirr
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 14, 2015 11:09 AM |
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Bitula said:
Well as far as I followed the patch discussions they made several perfomance improvements and significantly improved AI in quite a short time. As soon as they make a claim that it's not possible to further improve AI or performance, than it is a sign of bad codebase.
The fact that they are improving doesn't mean that it is good now. AI didn't improve much as far as I know beyond the speed, which was atrocious in the first place. Performance keeps being bad only that loading times are better. But yet it takes me about 1 minute and half since I start the game and I can be playing a map. Just for comparison sake, I'm playing Divinity Original Sin EE, which loads in 5 seconds and another 5 to 10 to load a save game. That's the speed I would expect for a game like Heroes not this monstruosity of a game.
Also, the fact that they are improving things so desperately does only mean that they have screwed it big time so I don't know how we can call that good codebase. It can be perhaps well organized and easy to modify in the best case, but certainly not good.
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etore
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 14, 2015 09:35 PM |
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Edited by etore at 21:37, 14 Nov 2015.
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DoubleDeck said:
Can someone tell me which button this is (camera rotate with mouse lock)?
The one called "Right-Mouse Rotate" at GUI options.
Maybe you didn't realized that you have to scroll down to show this option.
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DIEGIS
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted November 16, 2015 01:12 AM |
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lol...its already dead zone in here
are we waiting for new patch? 
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
www.cabinet-dentaire-malaunay.fr
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Karanshade
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 16, 2015 01:59 AM |
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DIEGIS said:
lol...its already dead zone in here
are we waiting for new patch?
I know I am
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 16, 2015 02:14 AM |
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 16, 2015 05:18 AM |
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DIEGIS said:
lol...its already dead zone in here
are we waiting for new patch?
Waiting for expansion with re-made skill-system... Or I suppose to be realistic for the next game... Or I suppose given the sales and reception I'm just back to h5...
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Petiknight
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 16, 2015 09:14 AM |
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TD said:
DIEGIS said:
lol...its already dead zone in here
are we waiting for new patch?
Waiting for expansion with re-made skill-system... Or I suppose to be realistic for the next game... Or I suppose given the sales and reception I'm just back to h5...
Based on the current state of the game, I think it's too much optimistic hoping for an expansion, - sadly  Ubisoft made a mistake to not grant the appropriate budget for Heroes development and they picked again a bad developer, bad engine etc...
Although I am still hoping for a good future and nice Heroes games...
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted November 16, 2015 09:40 AM |
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vitirr said:
It can be perhaps well organized and easy to modify in the best case, but certainly not good.
Well organized, well structured, easy to fix/modify, easy to expand, yes these are properties of a good codebase (and it is much more important than the number of bugs). I'm not saying this is the case with Limbic's code, but as far as I heard it was definitely NOT the case with BH's code (and not because of the amount of bugs). So now only time can tell how well it will fair. I don’t see any reason for pessimism so far. Let them work, let’s see what happens.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
