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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 06, 2016 07:35 AM |
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Articun said:
When you fight 100 ghosts and half your attacks miss, the ghosts get to you and decimate your army because of bad rolls, that's how -.-
Incorporeal in H5 was fine imo. Ghosts were fragile and not very fast, so it was not like they were particularly powerful. Having them as neutral stacks challenged you a bit, but that was what made it fun. You had to optimize a bit, like single stacks to steal retaliations, work the not-3-in-a-row rule, etc. As neutrals they favored magic heroes over might heroes, which was fine, similarly to how Golems favored might heroes over magic.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 06, 2016 08:38 AM |
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I really liked the ghosts' incorporeal ability. I didn't find it OP or unbalanced because every 3rd hit at least would connect at the very least. against neutrals it was easy to split shooters into 1s, get 2 misses and then use the strongest stack to hit them. Against players you would just focus on actually important targets and once you had worthless small stacks you would bait out the misses the same way. As necro they were also nice meat-shields as 1s, allowed you to have chance to clear even high-level enemies as they could potentially take 3 hits each + raise dead for more. Then again, I just love having more and more layers of tactics and strategy which is why I love h5 so much compared to h6 and h7
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 06, 2016 09:05 AM |
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I hated that incarnation of it. Too damn obnoxious in a not good way. A flat 50-75% dmg reduction from physical attacks would've been better methinks.
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted May 06, 2016 09:45 AM |
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So, what do you think will be revealed next?
- 3D models of the Fortress creatures
- Fortress city visuals / layout
- Fortress hero classes
- The workings/options of (what's presumed to be) Runelore
- Unrevealed new gameplay feature
- New non-Fortress heroes included in the DLC
- Background lore!
- Something else that didn't cross my mind?
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted May 06, 2016 09:56 AM |
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emilsn91
Supreme Hero
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posted May 06, 2016 10:24 AM |
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Seen the new Dwarf line up?!
Who the **** said go on those horrible Kobolds?! Hamsters in armor..
Rest of the town looks good though. Dragons are nice, Valkyrie are nice, Rune priests are great.
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted May 06, 2016 11:10 AM |
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@Kimarous: that and unit abilities  .
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 06, 2016 01:54 PM |
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Agreed with Alci and TD regarding H5 ghosts, and it gave the unit a unique flavor.
I guess a middle ground could be found like Elvin and Kiryu suggests with melee damage reduction but still chances to avoid completely ranged attacks, after all it only makes sense no?
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Articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted May 06, 2016 02:07 PM |
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Well, if we do go for realism, constructs should also get reduced ranged damage. I mean, they are made of strong materials like obsidian, sandstone and so on.
Incorporeal, should indeed give reduced melee damage and yeah, why not, chances against ranged attacks but there should also be a spell called banish that would deal great damage to them as well. Also there are also other units that should get the ability, like Fire, air and Water elementals since their body is made of the element that is mostly insubstantial.
But i guess a Banish type spell would only work if Inferno enters the game and it has the gating skill. Unless of course our team of developers can make it situational. For example, against a spirit type, demon or elemental type unit it deals a great amount of damage. Against normal units, it restricts their movement and against constructs it acts as a time stasis spell.
But, no matter how imbalanced it may be, i am in favor of getting incorporeal back
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 06, 2016 02:07 PM |
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A guaranteed damage reduction is boring, makes the unit a tank. Chance to reduce damage is more fun.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 06, 2016 02:14 PM |
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that I agree with. Alternatively making sure hits that would instantly kill anyway will always hit since the biggest problem i feel was when you were way stronger and it made battles drag on unnecessarily.
Articun said:
Well, if we do go for realism, constructs should also get reduced ranged damage. I mean, they are made of strong materials like obsidian, sandstone and so on.
I'd say that's what the defense stat is there for.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 06, 2016 02:14 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 14:15, 06 May 2016.
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@Elvin
Yes exactly, chances to avoid between 50 and 75% of melee attack but can go up to 100% if attack is ranged.
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Aionb
Known Hero
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posted May 06, 2016 02:26 PM |
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I've always applied the tactic described by TD regarding the ghosts and it was mostly ok. I really liked their ability, regardless if it worked in my favour or not. I would like to see it back.
While the grinding of the teeth when the main hitting stack happened to miss as well was priceless!
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 06, 2016 02:34 PM |
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Aionb said:
While the grinding of the teeth when the main hitting stack happened to miss as well was priceless!
True that. 
Aionb said:
I really liked their ability, regardless if it worked in my favour or not.
Yep and that was the beauty of it!
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted May 06, 2016 02:57 PM |
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I guess we can all agree that chance for something not usual to happen makes Heroes replayable and fun.
Abilities with randomized outcome make same fight always different and engaging.
Thats why RMG and random skill system are so important for longevity of the game.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 06, 2016 03:17 PM |
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the incorporeal would have worked best if you can only trigger it once in a row, never multiple times consecutively and theoretically block all attacks lol
sort of like how you can't have good morale twice in one turn for the same stack and get three actions or more etc gamebreaking lol
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted May 06, 2016 03:43 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
I guess we can all agree that chance for something not usual to happen makes Heroes replayable and fun.
Abilities with randomized outcome make same fight always different and engaging.
Thats why RMG and random skill system are so important for longevity of the game.
I agree. But I don't like how all the chance to stun abilities are all based on the units luck
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted May 06, 2016 03:51 PM |
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verriker said:
the incorporeal would have worked best if you can only trigger it once in a row, never multiple times consecutively and theoretically block all attacks lol
sort of like how you can't have good morale twice in one turn for the same stack and get three actions or more etc gamebreaking lol
Actually I believe there was a rule implemented so either effect (avoid or take damage) could only trigger at much twice in a row. So even if the Ghosts avoided/took damage from 2 physical attacks, on the third it would change.
Personally I disliked how they could avoid all the damage from one attack - no matter how strong the attacking force was. I'd had settled for a 50-75% damage reduction, so it wouldn't be so annoying to deal with them.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 06, 2016 04:07 PM |
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The_green_drag said:
dark-whisperer said:
I guess we can all agree that chance for something not usual to happen makes Heroes replayable and fun.
Abilities with randomized outcome make same fight always different and engaging.
Thats why RMG and random skill system are so important for longevity of the game.
I agree. But I don't like how all the chance to stun abilities are all based on the units luck
Terrible mechanics. H5 perfected the formula by adding stack strength modifier so that small stacks have reduced chance to trigger an effect against large ones and vice versa. Not only does that take us a step back but it also makes abilities exclusive to builds with luck and all but impossible to trigger on neutral stacks. Even allowed for exploits with multiple 1-unit stacks which they decided to fix by making stunned units immune to incapacitation for the next turn. One facepalm is not enough..
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 06, 2016 04:27 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
Actually I believe there was a rule implemented so either effect (avoid or take damage) could only trigger at much twice in a row. So even if the Ghosts avoided/took damage from 2 physical attacks, on the third it would change.
oh fair enough don't think I even realized that, sorry it's been a while lol
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