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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~ This MEGA THREAD is 1635 pages long: 1 200 400 600 800 1000 1200 1400 ... 1479 1480 1481 1482 1483 ... 1600 1635 · «PREV / NEXT»
Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted July 28, 2016 10:25 PM
Edited by Gryphs at 22:25, 28 Jul 2016.

GenyaArikado said:
Fair enough. Wouldnt call it a ripoff though because by that logic H1-2 are a Cain and Abel ripoff and H3s ripoff of every work with a demon invasion. Their backstories were definitely inspired by the Starks but their actual storylines during the campaign and after are quite diferent.

However the rest (father figure death setting the plot in motion, mottos) is pretty standard fantasy stuff though.
No, H1/2 is not a rip-off of Cain and Abel because the only things similar is that they are rival siblings, Archibald(Cain) does not kill his brother even if he wins. Again there is a difference between borrowing ideas and reusing an already existent mold. Siblings are a general concept, siblings used in the same way as another story is a rip-off. For example, if Roland and Archibald were trying to please the god Jubjub and Archibald failed. Even if he did not end up killing Roland I would still judge that aspect of the story a rip-off because it is obviously to me trying to take an already existent narrative, edit it slightly and drop it in Enroth. Perhaps rip-off is a harsh word as it does not have to be bad, but Ashan is not subtle about it. Also keep in mind Ashan is not borrowing a widely used trope here either, like two warring brothers, it is using a family structure and narrative style that is only widely known to be used in GoT making the robbery all the more obvious.
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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted July 28, 2016 10:35 PM

GenyaArikado said:
In that they did succeed.
In what way is what they described "the typical fantasy outline"? Actually the only thing that "typical fantasy outline" really reminds me of is the infamous Uwe Boll's dreadful movie In the Name of The King. If that is the kind of standard Erwin is trying to outperform no wonder his stories are so awful and cliché.
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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted July 29, 2016 12:18 AM
Edited by GenyaArikado at 02:02, 29 Jul 2016.

Gryphs said:
No, H1/2 is not a rip-off of Cain and Abel because the only things similar is that they are rival siblings, Archibald(Cain) does not kill his brother even if he wins. Again there is a difference between borrowing ideas and reusing an already existent mold. Siblings are a general concept, siblings used in the same way as another story is a rip-off. For example, if Roland and Archibald were trying to please the god Jubjub and Archibald failed. Even if he did not end up killing Roland I would still judge that aspect of the story a rip-off because it is obviously to me trying to take an already existent narrative, edit it slightly and drop it in Enroth. Perhaps rip-off is a harsh word as it does not have to be bad, but Ashan is not subtle about it. Also keep in mind Ashan is not borrowing a widely used trope here either, like two warring brothers, it is using a family structure and narrative style that is only widely known to be used in GoT making the robbery all the more obvious.


Obviously H1-2 is not literally Cain and Abel, thats the point im trying to make. H6 Gryffins are obviously inspired by the Starks but they're different. Irina would beat the snow out of Sansa for being such a weakling, Pavel eventually died of old age without getting turned a pincushion unlike Robb darling, Kiril and Anastasya went to play the game on their respective factions unlike TiresiasBran and AltairArya. Closest one is Sandor and unliKe Jon's first time, he actually suceeded banishing the world ending threat.

AnkVaati said:
GenyaArikado said:
In that they did succeed.
In what way is what they described "the typical fantasy outline"? Actually the only thing that "typical fantasy outline" really reminds me of is the infamous Uwe Boll's dreadful movie In the Name of The King. If that is the kind of standard Erwin is trying to outperform no wonder his stories are so awful and cliché.


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouKilledMyFather

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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted July 29, 2016 12:23 AM

GenyaArikado said:


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouKilledMyFather

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItAmusedMe
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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted July 29, 2016 02:10 AM

AnkVaati said:
GenyaArikado said:


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouKilledMyFather

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItAmusedMe


I dont understand why you link this.

I linked because the examples there prove "boy has his relatives killed and goes on to avenge them" statement is accurate and because its a pretty common story

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted July 29, 2016 09:09 AM

GenyaArikado said:
Obviously H1-2 is not literally Cain and Abel, thats the point im trying to make. H6 Gryffins are obviously inspired by the Starks but they're different. Irina would beat the snow out of Sansa for being such a weakling, Pavel eventually died of old age without getting turned a pincushion unlike Robb darling, Kiril and Anastasya went to play the game on their respective factions unlike TiresiasBran and AltairArya. Closest one is Sandor and unliKe Jon's first time, he actually suceeded banishing the world ending threat.
True enough, but if they are making an original story why start with a bad "fanfiction" mold. They should have done without the pointless parallels, and tried to make an original work that could have stood on its own merit not another work's laurels.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted July 29, 2016 09:34 AM

Gryphs said:
bad "fanfiction" mold


Hey, you just put into words my general feeling of recent hero storylines.
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Selpen
Selpen


Adventuring Hero
posted July 29, 2016 05:20 PM

Where is rune magic?
UbiLimbic is so dumb. Stream probably won't even happen on 1st August

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted July 29, 2016 06:49 PM

They are probably still looking for guinea-pigs to stream that.
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Valen-Teen
Valen-Teen


Famous Hero
UFOlolOgist
posted July 29, 2016 07:16 PM

Who said that dwarves will have rune magic?!
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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted July 29, 2016 08:08 PM

Valen-Teen said:
Who said that dwarves will have rune magic?!


Here, you have quotations like this:

Quote:
Warlords are the commanders of the warbands, raiding enemy positions and spearheading the Dwarven armies. Their mastery of Warfare and Rune Magic is critical in their strategy, as they unleash fire and brimstone on their enemies before marching for the onslaught. Recognized by all as great leaders and explorers, they are also versed in Earth magic.


But of course, just like many things they said, it's all bound to interpretation and spasms.
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Valen-Teen
Valen-Teen


Famous Hero
UFOlolOgist
posted July 29, 2016 09:02 PM

PandaTar said:
Valen-Teen said:
Who said that dwarves will have rune magic?!


Here, you have quotations like this:

Quote:
Warlords are the commanders of the warbands, raiding enemy positions and spearheading the Dwarven armies. Their mastery of Warfare and Rune Magic is critical in their strategy...



Yeah, I forgot about this article. So nowadays runes must be just active abilities. So boring.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted July 29, 2016 09:04 PM

What else could it be but a racial? We already have a warcry skill that teaches you warcries so that would not be hard to imagine.
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The_Green_Drag
The_Green_Drag


Supreme Hero
posted July 29, 2016 09:17 PM

Racial abilities are so boring. I say get rid of them!

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted July 29, 2016 09:42 PM

They used to be interesting...
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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted July 29, 2016 09:42 PM

Rework them? Make them not boring. ^^
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
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The_Green_Drag
The_Green_Drag


Supreme Hero
posted July 29, 2016 09:49 PM

Boring or no they still take away an aspect of the game I really liked, which was every faction had more or less access to every skill.

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted July 29, 2016 09:53 PM

Accept necromancy.
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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted July 29, 2016 10:36 PM

The_Green_Drag said:
Boring or no they still take away an aspect of the game I really liked, which was every faction had more or less access to every skill.



On that line of thought, it should, somehow, give a certain edge to certain heroes or a race knowing more or having more specialization of something they are supposed to be expert for centuries than a newcomer, say, a barbarian learning necromancy at the point to best an experienced necromancer. If all could reach almost everything, races could have unique racial perks as an upper hand in respect of their roots, tied or not by skill combinations. Of course, that would also be considered a rework. ^^
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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted July 29, 2016 11:18 PM

Gryphs said:
True enough, but if they are making an original story why start with a bad "fanfiction" mold. They should have done without the pointless parallels, and tried to make an original work that could have stood on its own merit not another work's laurels.



It does stand on their own in my opinion, unless I missed some part where Sansa raised an army of japanese snakeman. There are some parallels between Griffin and the Stark kids in their backstories but not even those are the same. Stop trying to make H6 sound like its literally a ripoff of the ASoFaI story, its not.


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