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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~ This MEGA THREAD is 1593 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 320 640 960 1280 ... 1589 1590 1591 1592 1593 · «PREV
Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted March 20, 2017 11:50 AM

Stevie said:
However, the entire analogy to Heroes is inaccurate as far as context and necessity go, since you don't compare games for what utility you derive, but for what enjoyment, and that's entirely something else (you cannot quantify it).


Well, for what else than enjoyment would I have a Ferrari?

But indeed, as you rightly say and describe in your last paragraph there is many objective factors that can define whether a game is good or not, ruling out personal preference. I shall take emphasis on the "badly implemented features" as it is very easy to compare with for instance h3 and h5.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Erwinmental Garbage
posted March 20, 2017 01:28 PM

you could also have the Heroes 3 Ferrari to win the championship but unfortunately Schumacher left a long time ago and the bad strategy drove Alonso mad so they will not win again, meanwhile the Age of Wonders Red Bull and Civilization Mercedes have taken a hundred championships while the wheels fell off Erwin's Marussia lol
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 20, 2017 01:44 PM

Let's rather say, from the 3 wheels they deemed to equip it with, two fell off, while the 3rd was the wrongly, but safely attached steering wheel, which was unfortunately missing in the cockpit, which didn't matter due to the engine firing on 2 cylinders only.

But otherwise - yeah, Marussia sounds just right. Although I think more along the lines of a Pontiac Aztek.

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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted March 20, 2017 04:39 PM

thGryphn said:
Antalyan said:

Which group do you belong to?


I honestly don't and cannot count myself as one of those with the talent. I can best describe myself as a pretty good learner but I need an example to follow. That is why I asked in the bugfix thread to reset things and do it in a structured way, so more people knows what's done and how, and so more can contribute.

Yeah I would count myself to that group as well.

I will have a look what I will be able to do in that thread to give it some more logical structure.

Elvin said:


So if we return for just a second to Heroes 7, we can objectively establish that it has memory leaks, bad code, crashes a lot, disconnected art style, badly implemented features, bugs, artificial ineptitude, and those amount to the poor reviews, sales and what other numbers out there, and as far as I can see these are clear indicators that Heroes 7 is a complete failure on its own and worse than other Heroes games by comparison.


That is only half-truth. Abolutely objectively, you can confirm only "memory leaks, code which sometimes does not work as it should, bugs, not very high ratings". The rest is quite subjective imho.

Crashes would be objective as well but they don't happen, at least not on my laptop.

The definition of objective is "based on verifiable evidence or facts instead of on attitude, belief, or opinion" and the words "bad" or "worse" include the opinion themlselves!

Brukernavn said:


I would have to disagree, since the use of "bad" in this context is a value judgement (not in the moral sense) it is subjective in nature. His opinion is not wrong, he simply values things differently. Maybe he has a wife and five kids, so the Ferrari with two seats would be of little use, even if it was technically superior in every other way. Or maybe he just hates Ferrari for some reason, and could never set his foot in a car like that. The reasoning does not have to make sense to others, it's subjective after all. Most value decisions are based on feelings anyway. I mean, people still buy overpriced Apple products in droves

A common example for subjective value is water vs gold. Most people value gold much higher than water. But if you were dehydrated in the middle of the desert you would be willing to pay almost anything for some water. Water and gold does not have a fixed inherent value, it is subjective. The same is true for games. And even if you can argue for technical, stylistic, narrative or any other form of superiority of one game over another, it can never be objectively "bad" or worse.


Good examples indeed, according to the way I'm thinking about what's objective.

EnergyZ said:
Maybe so. But the thing is that one can mod things on just one map. Anything deeper requires more knowledge, and source code, I think. That and bugs.


It's not true. You can change some things which apply generally, you only need to change (overwrite) the gamefiles!

The only problem is you cannot change the properties of each single cooked map.








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Aionb
Aionb


Known Hero
posted March 20, 2017 04:49 PM

Antalyan said:
AlHazin said:
@Antalyan: you admit at least that H7 is a rather bad game, right?

Nope it is a good game (my most favourite one atm.) with bad publisher.
Its potential is still incredible.

The holy cow of potential has risen again!

For the second time in this thread I'll point to this:

Zenofex said:
Elvin said:
Are you complaining about a game that is not even out?
I have a Heroes VI deja-vu when I read replies like this one.

Attacker: "This looks like crap."

Defender: "Oh God, wait until it's out, it's not done yet / it's a placeholder / it will surely look better when it's finished..."

Attacker: "OK, it's out and it still looks like crap."

Defender: "Oh God, wait until they patch it you whiner!"

Attacker: "They stopped patching, it's still crap, anything else?"

Defender: "Well, it had POTENTIAL!!! Next time..."

Sweet memories. Ubisoft's Heroes games have much more interesting development time than actual gameplay, that's for sure.




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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted March 20, 2017 05:00 PM
Edited by Galaad at 17:06, 20 Mar 2017.

I'm sorry but a game which is considered to be a catastrophe by a huge majority of the fandom and worst rated of the franchise can be considered as a failure, objectively. Really it's not that hard to get.
Objectively the game mechanics are deeper in most of the previous titles and I am not going to explain why as it has already been done in this thread and subforum generally to the point of vomit, if you don't want to listen noone will explain for the nth time.
The artstyle is not consistent with the NWC era and that is also an objective observation. The AI, as pointed many times is also not up to the level of the one from h5 or even from h3, which is also an objective observation.
So that means both visuals and gameplay are not in line with the glorious predecessors and that again is objective.
The fact someone may like the **** mechanics and art better does not refute this.
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imid
imid


Hired Hero
posted March 20, 2017 06:55 PM

Galaad said:
I'm sorry but a game which is considered to be a catastrophe by a huge majority of the fandom and worst rated of the franchise can be considered as a failure, objectively. Really it's not that hard to get.
Objectively the game mechanics are deeper in most of the previous titles and I am not going to explain why as it has already been done in this thread and subforum generally to the point of vomit, if you don't want to listen noone will explain for the nth time.
The artstyle is not consistent with the NWC era and that is also an objective observation. The AI, as pointed many times is also not up to the level of the one from h5 or even from h3, which is also an objective observation.
So that means both visuals and gameplay are not in line with the glorious predecessors and that again is objective.
The fact someone may like the **** mechanics and art better does not refute this.


I completely agree, I'm a physicist and that's how "objectively" should be used. The discussions with antalyan(?) are similar with the discussions I have with the crackpots that propose a new mechanism for a perpetuum mobile jajaja...H7 is so garbage that there is nothing to recycle! It is a completely broken game.

The last weekend I started to play Age of Wonders 3, a very nice game indeed! Though, it has a different dynamics --- I think Heroes should stay Heroes. I really hope that Quantomas is going to complete his work on AI this year...

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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted March 20, 2017 08:04 PM

Read this Discussion related to objectivity.

There are many interesting statements (expressing subjective opinions of course); however, this one seemed the most interesting one for me which really reminds me of the atmosphere here:

"When people say something is "Objectively good/bad", it's because they have no argument or case. They want to say it's a fact, and you're wrong for not having the same opinion as them."


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celiton
celiton


Hired Hero
Thinking before doing
posted March 20, 2017 08:14 PM

Antalyan said:

"When people say something is "Objectively good/bad", it's because they have no argument or case. They want to say it's a fact, and you're wrong for not having the same opinion as them."




Except, you've been given like tens of arguments in previous posts

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Erwinmental Garbage
posted March 20, 2017 08:20 PM

I rather read this which you seem to conveniently forget lol

momo said:
Whether something truly objective or not actually exists is a matter that gives philosophers' headaches.

But thankfully common sense exists and guides us in the practical needs of life.

If you say you liked Sharknado better than Casablanca, well, that's your preference and nobody has the right to force you to change it. Common sense says, though, that Casablanca is a masterpiece of the movie industry and Sharknado isn't by a long shot. And stating that isn't -logically speaking- exactly as a affirming an uncontestable truth, like for instance "IF A IS TRUE THEN B IS TRUE, IF B IS TRUE THEN C IS TRUE, THEREFORE IF A IS TRUE THEN C MUST ALSO BE TRUE"; but it still is common sense, something one can say with some degree of objectivity.

Ashan is objectively a sloppy creative work pretty much as the gameplay is objectively sloppy and the optimization is objectively sloppy. These aren't crystalline logical sequences, but are statements of common sense, easy to come by for whoever has a grasp in these matters (TBS games, software efficiency, narrative charm, etc). In the end, Ubi's HOMM isn't that terrible, its just that everything in it its mediocre.


man momo was an objectively good poster lol

now back to regular scheduled cyclical argument lol
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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted March 20, 2017 09:06 PM

Antalyan said:

EnergyZ said:
Maybe so. But the thing is that one can mod things on just one map. Anything deeper requires more knowledge, and source code, I think. That and bugs.


It's not true. You can change some things which apply generally, you only need to change (overwrite) the gamefiles!

The only problem is you cannot change the properties of each single cooked map.



Yeah, but how difficult that is?

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Promising
Supreme Hero
CH and HC Mascot
posted March 20, 2017 10:12 PM

Are we trying to prove a point or just trying to get to page 1,600? Snape likes page 394. Is that the new favorite page number?
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 20, 2017 10:53 PM

Guys, why does anyone even care? If there ARE people who like that excuse for a Heroes game - there are people who bought a Pontiac Aztek as well. Voluntarily.
I mean, isn't it hard enough to suffer from loving something inferior? Do we have to rub it in as well?

So, let them think the game is great, potentially, or rather good, practically. Case of Shallow Hal, right?

Just think about how annoying the mod situation is for them...

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Dies_Irae
Dies_Irae


Famous Hero
with fabulous eyes
posted March 21, 2017 04:05 PM



At this rate, I'm going to run out of gifs. Keep it up, guys .
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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted March 21, 2017 04:38 PM

PandaTar said:
Are we trying to prove a point or just trying to get to page 1,600? Snape likes page 394. Is that the new favorite page number?

This thread has ever had some point to prove?

EnergyZ said:
Antalyan said:

EnergyZ said:
Maybe so. But the thing is that one can mod things on just one map. Anything deeper requires more knowledge, and source code, I think. That and bugs.


It's not true. You can change some things which apply generally, you only need to change (overwrite) the gamefiles!

The only problem is you cannot change the properties of each single cooked map.



Yeah, but how difficult that is?

Some things are really easy to change, like the abilities assigned to units, you can do it in several seconds or minutes if you are successful in launching the editor.
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SoilBurn
SoilBurn


Known Hero
BurnsSoil
posted March 24, 2017 03:57 PM
Edited by SoilBurn at 16:03, 24 Mar 2017.

Galaad said:

The artstyle is not consistent with the NWC era and that is also an objective observation.

It is an "objective" observation to call a game "objectively" bad because it is not consistent with another game. Go figure. The fanboyism levels in these forums are out of this world.

The NWC era fairy tale artstyle was objectively the worst. And this is my objective opinion.


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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Erwinmental Garbage
posted March 24, 2017 04:06 PM

SoilBurn said:
It is an "objective" observation to call a game "objectively" bad because it is not consistent with another game. Go figure. The fanboyism levels in these forums are out of this world.

The NWC era fairy tale artstyle was objectively the worst. And this is my objective opinion.


alright SoilsBurn my good mate long time no see or hear from lol
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted March 24, 2017 05:07 PM

If you people don't stop resurrecting this sh1tty thread, I swear that the next pages up to 2000 will be choked full of outdated erwin memes.
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted March 24, 2017 07:36 PM


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