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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted January 29, 2015 07:42 PM |
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Stevie said:
Necromancy raises ghouls, zombies or enslaves spirits like Ghosts, it does not produce Liches or Archliches. Those become liches by consuming Namtaru venom. So when a Lich dies, a Necromant can call his soul back as a ghoul, zombie, ghost, etc. (if that's even possible, idk)
But, but...
War-overlord said:
dark-whisperer said:
What happens to the Lich if it perishes during combat? Is it then dead dead or it can return somehow?
Got one word for ya: Necromancy.
One of you is mistaken... so which one?
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted January 29, 2015 07:43 PM |
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Stevie said:
Becoming Skeletal is not the scope, the scope is power. Becoming Skeletal is a side effect that comes with using Manticore poison in their new ritual. And they would use Manticore poison in their new ritual because that would trigger their preordained death right then and effectively become Archliches instead of normal Liches. And we get Skeletal Liches and everyone's happy (explaining it again).
You are missing a point. Of course, the aim of lich is to gain power to the greatest extent but it doesn't mean that drinking venom would help. Some real life situation - there was a girl that wanted to become slim quickly, so she took a substance that increases a rate of cellular respiration, thus using all stored fats and sugars on ATP synthesis. She lost weight but due to overly extensive cellular respiration her body temperature reached around 45 degrees Celcius, hence proteins in her body coagulated and she died. The same situation would most allegedly happen to liches using manticore venom. They would lose soft tissues but would they gain power. No! Lich becomes an archlich when he reaches certain age and as a consequence it is left with skin and bones, not the other way around.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted January 29, 2015 07:48 PM |
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Marzhin said:
That said, the topic of fans "wanting" this or that always reminds me of this great quote from Alan Moore:
It’s not the job of the artist to give the audience what the audience wants. If the audience knew what they needed, then they wouldn’t be the audience. They would be the artists.
Not that I necessarily think of us as artists, but still something worth mulling over to understand the creators' point of view 
I wonder if you would have been saying that stuff back when you were in the audience lol
http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1849
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 29, 2015 07:48 PM |
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Marzhin said:
The H6 bio says :
An Archlich is given that title when he has continued “living” beyond what his or her physical shell would have normally permitted.
It has nothing to do with becoming a skeleton faster or slower. You become an Archlich when you exceed what should have been your "unaltered" lifespan.
If a suicide does not speed up the pre-ordained lifespan, then that does throw the whole Manticore-Venom theory out the Window.
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted January 29, 2015 07:49 PM |
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Marzhin said:
It has nothing to do with becoming a skeleton faster or slower. You become an Archlich when you exceed what should have been your "unaltered" lifespan.
This sound's to me like everyone gets at birth this "unaltered" lifespan and no matter if you decide to kill youself only that number matters in becoming Archlich. So if you are "predestined" to live 80 years you cannot become Archlich before that time no matter what you do? Is this correct?
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted January 29, 2015 07:51 PM |
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Necromancy can bring back Liches and even Vampires.
Specifically about Liches was said in one book of DM:
The most potent adapts can ... creating creatures such as zombies, ghouls, and liches. I reduced the citation to only meaningful part.
Afterall, we're raising Liches in every Ubi-Heroes, even Heroes Online.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 29, 2015 07:53 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
Necromancy can bring back Liches and even Vampires.
Specifically about Liches was said in one book of DM:
The most potent adapts can ... creating creatures such as zombies, ghouls, and liches. I reduced the citation to only meaningful part.
Afterall, we're raising Liches in every Ubi-Heroes, even Heroes Online.
This, it should be a matter of snatching a soul quick enough and stuffing it back into it's original body. Of course the body needs to be intact enough for that.
Of course you cannot die being not a Lich and be raised as a Lich. To be raised a Lich you have to have been a Lich to begin with.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 29, 2015 07:54 PM |
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verriker said:
Marzhin said:
Not that I necessarily think of us as artists, but still something worth mulling over to understand the creators' point of view
I wonder if you would have been saying that stuff back when you were in the audience lol
http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1849
Of course he's defending his employer, he doesn't want to get fired 
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted January 29, 2015 07:54 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
Necromancy can bring back Liches and even Vampires.
Specifically about Liches was said in one book of DM:
The most potent adapts can ... creating creatures such as zombies, ghouls, and liches. I reduced the citation to only meaningful part.
Afterall, we're raising Liches in every Ubi-Heroes, even Heroes Online.
So why they are not becoming Archliches when they die? Because of that "natural" lifespan? Or dying in combat doesn't count?
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 29, 2015 07:55 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Of course he's defending his employer, he doesn't want to get fired
Because nobody in their right mind ever changes his mind.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted January 29, 2015 07:57 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
So why they are not becoming Archliches when they die? Because of that "natural" lifespan? Or dying in combat doesn't count?
I guess that dying in combat is believed to be "unnatural" death.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 29, 2015 07:57 PM |
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He stated he liked more the old universe one or two weeks ago... on this forum
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted January 29, 2015 07:58 PM |
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verriker, mind you, 44% of he poll thinks of new world as "decent, but not very innovative" even back in times of horrible H5 lol
WO, sure, if there's no body, they can't return the spirit. I akso remember there was a Necro building in H6 which allowed you to recruit your dead units back (losses from combat).
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted January 29, 2015 07:59 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
He stated he liked more the old universe one or two weeks ago... on this forum
Then what's the problem? He doesn't contradict himself.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 29, 2015 08:00 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
I guess that dying in combat is believed to be "unnatural" death.
But what if the dude has cancer or a genetic illness which affects him since birth and decreases his normal lifespan, in this case his "mortal shell" wouldn't last long
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted January 29, 2015 08:01 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
I guess that dying in combat is believed to be "unnatural" death.
Then what counts as "natural" death? How about giving yourself deadly disease? Would dying by plaque count towards becoming Archlich? Or you simply must wait certain number of years to pass to become one?
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted January 29, 2015 08:03 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
So why they are not becoming Archliches when they die? Because of that "natural" lifespan? Or dying in combat doesn't count?
Because of natural lifespan. They need to live past it to obtain that title and dying before that time doesn't count.
Can't a fan love both universes, but one of it love more? I love both the old and new but Ashan I like more. And ofc from H5 so many years have passed, people can change opinions
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 29, 2015 08:03 PM |
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dark-whisperer said:
Then what counts as "natural" death? How about giving yourself deadly disease? Would dying by plaque count towards becoming Archlich? Or you simply must wait certain number of years to pass to become one?
Well, that is the problem at the moment. Is the time you're supposed to have died set in stone or does it adapt to circuumstance?
Because if it adapts, you could cheat the system by committing (slow) suicide.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 29, 2015 08:03 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 20:06, 29 Jan 2015.
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Marzhin said:
The H6 bio says :
An Archlich is given that title when he has continued “living” beyond what his or her physical shell would have normally permitted.
It has nothing to do with becoming a skeleton faster or slower. You become an Archlich when you exceed what should have been your "unaltered" lifespan.
Unaltered lifespan of your physical shell, as the text mentions. Who's to say that consuming Manticore venom doesn't force the conditions of the physical shell to equal a lifespan of just a few minutes or hours?
Or are you going in the direction to say that there is a number of years attached to your existence in which it is practically impossible to die?
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted January 29, 2015 08:04 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
verriker, mind you, 44% of he poll thinks of new world as "decent, but not very innovative" even back in times of horrible H5 lol
yeah I guess it was opposite day on that forum when they had that discussion lol
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