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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted August 28, 2014 05:43 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Avonu said:
So, now Jezebeth instead being sent back to Sheogh by Kha-Beleth, was killed by Ivan Griffin? But now worry, she will be OK and will team up with certain knight during Clash of Heroes.
Doesn't that have to do with the fact that Demons never truly die?
Indeed. When Demons are killed they are reborn in Sheogh and have to regain their rank and power.
Regarding the H5 scenario maps, we consider them "fictionalized" accounts of actual events, as if many years later a storyteller was recounting his own version of these stories (it's more obvious in TotE because each map has an actual narrator during the loading screens).
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 28, 2014 05:50 PM |
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Marzhin said:
Indeed. When Demons are killed they are reborn in Sheogh and have to regain their rank and power.
Excuse me, but I think this need a bit more explanation. Why would they have to regain anything? I wouldn't have a slain devil general put anywhere else but in the same place he was before. Are they... downgraded naturally when they die? Are they spawning into different demon types, like from a succubus to a ravager?
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted August 28, 2014 05:52 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 17:53, 28 Aug 2014.
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Demons are reborn as Imps and must climb "upstairs" to regain their lost power and bodies.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Ehlesgens
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 28, 2014 06:11 PM |
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Stevie said:
Why would they have to regain anything? I wouldn't have a slain devil general put anywhere else but in the same place he was before
I guess they are downgraded because they failed to achieve the goal their masters set for them, as some sort of "punishement", and to force them to prove their worth again ? 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 28, 2014 06:38 PM |
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Respawning incurs a level penalty ^^
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 28, 2014 07:27 PM |
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Avonu said:
Demons are reborn as Imps and must climb "upstairs" to regain their lost power and bodies.
Aaaand... from imps... you get all the forms of demons? What the hell is this, zerg evolution?
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted August 28, 2014 07:43 PM |
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Edited by Marzhin at 19:46, 28 Aug 2014.
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Or maybe there's more than one type of imp, but one per Demon species...
edit: sorry, had a weird bug that caused an old post to appear instead of the new one.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted August 28, 2014 07:59 PM |
bonus applied by alcibiades on 30 Aug 2014. |
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Stevie said:
Avonu said:
Demons are reborn as Imps and must climb "upstairs" to regain their lost power and bodies.
Aaaand... from imps... you get all the forms of demons? What the hell is this, zerg evolution?
Not exactly.
According to the Compendium, Demons far generally into 3 categories.
Those that are essentially Clay, to be shaped by their own desires. Those that are strong enough to impose their desire on others. And Succubi and Incubi.
Indeed, like the Zerg, Demons are constantly reshaping themselves. However unlike the Zerg, Demons are "in controll" of their own reshaping of sorts. The nature of their desire guides their change. Though each Demon is unique in it's speed and manner of change, those that satiate a particular desire tend to form into rough categories.
Like the Hellhounds and Cerberi, who were once the servants of the Overlord of Voracity. It is therefor implied that Cerberi were once Imps, that mainly satiated their hunger and gluttony. Their ever changing bodies shaping them into the form of the 3-headed Demondog we know.
Once they become so strong that they can impose their will on others, it is implied that the change slows down greatly or stops all together.
Succubi and Incubi are a different category alltogether. They are essentially reincarnated Cultist, who after death, get sent to Sheogh into a different cycle of rebirth, due to them changing allegiance from the creation of Asha to the creation of Urgash. Succubi and Incubi keep their relatively Human-like appearance, it is greatly implied that they change at the same rate as the Demons strong enough to impose their will if at all, and aren't completely bound to Sheogh, since they are still somewhat part of Asha's Creation. They can therefor leave Sheogh and exist on Ashan indefinatly, which is why they are often used as Agents of the Sovereign and the Overlords when they were still alive. Though the Succubi and Incubi tend to not be powerfull or smart enough to be little more then servants and courtesans.
Jezebeth becoming a Succubus due to her demonic allegiance is therefor consistant with the lore. Though it is very likely that she is continually reborn as a Succubus, unlike other demons. It is greatly implied that there is a great rat-race among the Succubi and Incubi, rivaling the dog-eat-dog struggle for survival amongst the Demons themselves.
Edit: Care to comment, Marzhin?
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted August 28, 2014 08:12 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Edit: Care to comment, Marzhin?
Nope, that's a great post
There are definitely different types of imps though. An Imp spawned by the Overlord of Voracity would not look at all like an Imp spawned by the Overlord of Pain.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted August 28, 2014 08:19 PM |
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Marzhin said:
Nope, that's a great post
There are definitely different types of imps though. An Imp spawned by the Overlord of Voracity would not look at all like an Imp spawned by the Overlord of Pain.
Thank you.
However, this leaves me with 2 questions.
1: Does spawning affect allignment? As in if an Imp spawn by the Overlord of Pain mainly satisfies it's hate, couls they still grow into, say Pitlords?
2: Since the Overlords are implied dead after the rise of the Sovereign, does this affect the spawning of Imps?
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 28, 2014 08:24 PM |
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Do demons increase in numbers?
What preserves the continuity between a slain demon and his spawn in Sheogh?
Weren't the overlords dead?
Does the shaping of a demon stop permanently or temporary?
Do demons become intelligent at a point?
Could such an evolving ability be implemented as a mechanic in-game? Like demons toughening themselves over time?
My next shadow council vote's on demons.
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted August 28, 2014 08:27 PM |
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War-overlord said:
1: Does spawning affect allignment? As in if an Imp spawn by the Overlord of Pain mainly satisfies it's hate, couls they still grow into, say Pitlords?
I'm not the expert of the Inferno rebirth cycle, but I believe a Demon can change his alignment in the course of his life if he's powerful enough, or follow several Overlords at once if he's cunning enough. That fits the "total freedom if you have the power" philosophy of the Inferno faction.
War-overlord said:
2: Since the Overlords are implied dead after the rise of the Sovereign, does this affect the spawning of Imps?
The key word here is "implied". You know the saying: as long as you haven't seen the corpse... 
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted August 28, 2014 08:33 PM |
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Stevie said:
1: Do demons increase in numbers?
2: What preserves the continuity between a slain demon and his spawn in Sheogh?
3: Weren't the overlords dead?
4: Does the shaping of a demon stop permanently or temporary?
5: Do demons become intelligent at a point?
6: Could such an evolving ability be implemented as a mechanic in-game? Like demons toughening themselves over time?
1: That is supposedly what the Breeders are for.
2: A respawned Demon retains it's memory, if it ever achieved intelligence.
3: I asked that myself.
4: It is implied that it stops or slows down very much ones Demons become powerfull enough.
5: Some do, Pitlords are supposedly rather intelligent. Most favor brute strength or sadism though.
6: It is implied that Upgrading is this with Demons, whereas it is training or different creatures/soldiers altogether in other races. But it could be implemented in magic, I suppose.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted August 28, 2014 09:07 PM |
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Quote:
3: Weren't the overlords dead?
There are ways how to imprison souls or to take the soul out of the cycle. For example Azkaal In H6 who was a demon prince but seales away. Plus there is the Void and Sandro who just loves to do these things.
Necromancer do something similar.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 28, 2014 10:05 PM |
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I really like the lore behind the Demons... to bad they've been such a boring and dull faction so far:/
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted August 28, 2014 10:16 PM |
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Quote:
It was Ivan of Griffin, leading a company of griffin riders, who located and cornered her.
Would this be those sun riders from heroes 6, or is this a hint to actual griffin riders?! Maybe they replace the swordbearer as champion during the final campaign
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted August 28, 2014 10:22 PM |
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Steyn said:
Quote:
It was Ivan of Griffin, leading a company of griffin riders, who located and cornered her.
Would this be those sun riders from heroes 6, or is this a hint to actual griffin riders?! Maybe they replace the swordbearer as champion during the final campaign
There have been people riding Griffins in DoC. So who knows.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted August 28, 2014 10:31 PM |
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Steyn said:
Quote:
It was Ivan of Griffin, leading a company of griffin riders, who located and cornered her.
Would this be those sun riders from heroes 6, or is this a hint to actual griffin riders?! Maybe they replace the swordbearer as champion during the final campaign
I'd prefer them as Elite, but they sound cool nonetheless
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted August 29, 2014 02:35 AM |
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Edited by lokdron at 02:58, 29 Aug 2014.
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xerox said:
I really like the lore behind the Demons... to bad they've been such a boring and dull faction so far:/
That's why I hope they make the council so we get to know more about the less "stompy" side of them. Since its highly likely the councilor will be kiril this way they explore the side we see during the face map if you go tears. If they keep the same story like the one they just posted I think things will be interesting.
Personally I find the conversations with Kha beleth on the first map the best part of the campaigns in my opinion, I also find it quite interesting that Kha Beleth is tears as well no wonder he turned inferno into a nation. Something that goes completely against chaos well inferno is also about freedom of choice and doing what you want as well.
Plus the whole reforming and being reborn thing is quite interesting. The way they talk in the H6 is that the cultists can only evolve to succubi and incubi. Maybe its as you said Overlord because of their Ashan connection they only evolve to those forms. Since all the inferno heroes are incubi and Succubi races of ashan who turned to Urgash.
Since all of them are human in appearance I assume the monstrous unit's are Urgash's original children that he created when he saw Asha's creation going by the background of the creation of the world. Still what I do like about the new post is that they are actually fleshing things out plus I wonder who came up with that song? I mean the comments are nice people like that its more serious and interesting. *cross my fingers and hope H7 is good* 
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NACHOOOO
Known Hero
Pessimistically optimistic
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posted August 29, 2014 05:10 AM |
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I've had the heroes bug after hearing MMH7s announcement and have been playing a bit of 5 and 6 when it decides to work. Couple of gameplay things that I'd like to see changed:
- Reduction in the amount of ranged units having full range than in Heroes 6. Full range should be reserved for very particular units like the Sylvan Hunter, and shouldn't be given to every creature and it's dog, or cerebei if you will
- If you have a might ability, or a magic spell, don't create an equal alternative in the other. I.e. Heroes 6 Haste v Rush. Everything should be unique
- The other is turn time, I forgot how painful the wait in between turns was in HOMMV.
I've seen a lot of hate towards the Cabir but I like him, I think he's very cool. Bring on creativity in the series I say. I'd love to see Dungeon have a hydra again, and Sylvan to have a big grizzly (looks a decent chance cause of clash)
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Magic Bird, only a working
title. Phew
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
