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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 01:51 AM |
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 02:03 AM |
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Stevie said:
To me the jump distance of the Behemoth was more ridiculous. It was set to 2x the speed it had, so on normal maps it could just jump from one side to another, lol.
Sounds like it is a reworked Kappa leap ability, but they were slow so it made some sense. If the Behemoth has a good move range...
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 31, 2015 02:08 AM |
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The thing is, Cyclops are also a strong, bulky walker, so they have to differenciate them somehow. Apart from one doing AoE damage and the other focus firing on one unit at a time.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 02:16 AM |
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Oh btw, interesting things about abilities. We might see Incorporeal back with Ghosts instead of its current ability, Vigilance. Also the way the Fatal Strike of the Grim Reaper is supposed to work is like this: 7 Grim reapers will always kill a minimum of 7 creatures, 10 always 10, etc. So you would 100% kill 10 gnolls or 10 behemoths regardless of the actual damage they do.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 31, 2015 02:16 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
The thing is, Cyclops are also a strong, bulky walker, so they have to differenciate them somehow. Apart from one doing AoE damage and the other focus firing on one unit at a time.
I think the real difference between champions would be stats and cost, only then - abilities (though in the case of Haven se clearly see the difference). I believe somebody already wrote here (JotunLogi iirc) that there's a big difference in cost between Cyclops and Behemoths.
Wow, Grim Riders come as an elite/champion destroyer, while Bone Dragon seems to be more against the core/elite. Kinda interesting, they follow their CoH designs (surgical strike VS big mass attack).
Good to hear that Incorporeal may return.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 02:20 AM |
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Stevie said:
Oh btw, interesting things about abilities. We might see Incorporeal back with Ghosts instead of its current ability, Vigilance. Also the way the Fatal Strike of the Grim Reaper is supposed to work is like this: 7 Grim reapers will always kill a minimum of 7 creatures, 10 always 10, etc. So you would 100% kill 10 gnolls or 10 behemoths regardless of the actual damage they do.
How were they saying incorporeal work, like H5's roulette of failure-to-do-damage? Or H6's flat damage reduction? Or completely different?
So, instead of the rather ineffective Wraith skill from H5, it's even better than the H5 Pit Spawn ability? Sweet roller, for what purpose would you choose a Ghost Dragon then?
Edit: Is that added on top of damage, or does that act as a minimum of sorts. Like, with 10 reapers doing 1000 damage, which might kill 3 behemoths, do they kill 10 only, or 10 plus the damage, killing 13? I really hope it is just the minimum, then...
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 02:22 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 02:26, 31 Mar 2015.
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Flat damage reduction is the desired they expressed for Incorporeal, if it happens.
Dragons are better creatures for a Magic hero, but we didn't discuss about them.
And one more thing, Tech Tree is the town's development tree, as in buildings. It looks like straight from Heroes 3 combined with the prerequisites system of Heroes 5. I think it's quite good, actually.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 02:27 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
The thing is, Cyclops are also a strong, bulky walker, so they have to differenciate them somehow. Apart from one doing AoE damage and the other focus firing on one unit at a time.
The thing is, all Champions are bulky, that's the reason why they are champions. Cyclops is ranged though, and Behemoths is very mobile with his new leap ability. You will also prefer different targets with two of them judging by their abilities. I like both of them so far and they feel different enough for me.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 02:31 AM |
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The behemoth is pretty fast, like it should be. The cyclops is REALLY slow. It only moved three spaces, even the upgrade.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 31, 2015 02:31 AM |
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RMZ1989 said:
The thing is, all Champions are bulky, that's the reason why they are champions.
Would you call Angels bulky? 
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 31, 2015 02:35 AM |
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Btw, shooter-Cyclops (only upgrade though, consider this) reminded me: do we have melee penalty for shooters?
Yeah, ofc Cyclops and titans shouldn't have it, but the others?
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 02:49 AM |
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 02:51 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
RMZ1989 said:
The thing is, all Champions are bulky, that's the reason why they are champions.
Would you call Angels bulky?
By bulky I mean tanky, the look doesn't matter that much(if it looks good) because you won't have both of them available anyway in one town.
Stevie said:
Oh btw, interesting things about abilities. We might see Incorporeal back with Ghosts instead of its current ability, Vigilance. Also the way the Fatal Strike of the Grim Reaper is supposed to work is like this: 7 Grim reapers will always kill a minimum of 7 creatures, 10 always 10, etc. So you would 100% kill 10 gnolls or 10 behemoths regardless of the actual damage they do.
Glad to hear about Ghosts, but Grim Reaper's ability is way too strong. It should work like Gorgon's Death Stare from Heroes 3. I mean 30+ Reapers killing 30+ other champs in single strike is quite ridiculous, but I am positive that they will balance it out in the end.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 02:54 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
RMZ1989 said:
The thing is, all Champions are bulky, that's the reason why they are champions.
Would you call Angels bulky?
They still take up 4 squares on the battlefield, regardless of perceived skinniness.
RMZ1989 said:
Grim Reaper's ability is way too strong. It should work like Gorgon's Death Stare from Heroes 3. I mean 30+ Reapers killing 30+ other champs in single strike is quite ridiculous, but I am positive that they will balance it out in the end.
Perhaps they have low defense, or are in fact extremely expensive, bordering on Titan expensiveness? Or maybe they will lower it down to some ability like the Gorgons, or the H5 Wraith, or the H5 Pit Spawn.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 31, 2015 02:59 AM |
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RMZ1989 said:
Storm-Giant said:
RMZ1989 said:
The thing is, all Champions are bulky, that's the reason why they are champions.
Would you call Angels bulky?
By bulky I mean tanky, the look doesn't matter that much(if it looks good) because you won't have both of them available anyway in one town.
That's not the same, and to a certain extend, looks define a creature. Sure, all champion units are tanky by definition, but you also find different types of champions, just like in other tiers.
RMZ1989 said:
Stevie said:
Oh btw, interesting things about abilities. We might see Incorporeal back with Ghosts instead of its current ability, Vigilance. Also the way the Fatal Strike of the Grim Reaper is supposed to work is like this: 7 Grim reapers will always kill a minimum of 7 creatures, 10 always 10, etc. So you would 100% kill 10 gnolls or 10 behemoths regardless of the actual damage they do.
Glad to hear about Ghosts, but Grim Reaper's ability is way too strong. It should work like Gorgon's Death Stare from Heroes 3. I mean 30+ Reapers killing 30+ other champs in single strike is quite ridiculous, but I am positive that they will balance it out in the end.
101% agree.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 03:14 AM |
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Protolisk said:
Perhaps they have low defense, or are in fact extremely expensive, bordering on Titan expensiveness? Or maybe they will lower it down to some ability like the Gorgons, or the H5 Wraith, or the H5 Pit Spawn.
Well, both of those are bad ways to balance a creature. On huge maps that are rich with resources their cost doesn't matter and it is even worse in the late game when both of you have 200+ champs and he just one-shots yours, lol.
Lower defense could balance creature if they are doing a lot of damage(Behemoths were like that in H3, they were very strong with their ability and had low defense themselves) but that doesn't really work when they are ignoring everything opposite creature has.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 03:28 AM |
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RMZ1989 said:
Well, both of those are bad ways to balance a creature. On huge maps that are rich with resources their cost doesn't matter and it is even worse in the late game when both of you have 200+ champs and he just one-shots yours, lol.
Lower defense could balance creature if they are doing a lot of damage(Behemoths were like that in H3, they were very strong with their ability and had low defense themselves) but that doesn't really work when they are ignoring everything opposite creature has.
Which is why I said perhaps they will become more like the Gorgon or the H5 Pit Spawn, or Wraith, or even the Pit Lord, with its "kill one more guy for good measure" ability. I know that the defense alone or the expensiveness alone would be terrible, especially on large maps. Likely, though, they are expensive, very much be a major priority, and will probably lose a bit of its potency in that scythe of his.
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The_Green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 03:47 AM |
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Stevie said:
Dudes, this Stronghold faction theme makes me think of shiny days and open fields with little girls picking flowers. Where's the shouts and the savage sounds?!
It's a far better fit than necro has with its theme imo.
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 04:21 AM |
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Edited by Kimarous at 04:22, 31 Mar 2015.
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Stevie said:
Dudes, this Stronghold faction theme makes me think of shiny days and open fields with little girls picking flowers. Where's the shouts and the savage sounds?!
Very shouting. Such savage. Wow.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted March 31, 2015 07:53 AM |
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Stevie said:
Dudes, this Stronghold faction theme makes me think of shiny days and open fields with little girls picking flowers. Where's the shouts and the savage sounds?!
In my opinion this theme tells a short and a tragic story. At first, a group of orcs is marching cheerfully through the desrt of Sahaar. They are happy because they are finally free. Through most of the theme the music is quite happy but at one moment it becomes more dramatic. This is the time when before mentioned orcs' unit is attacked by an army of Wizards. Orcs fight bravely but in the end, all of them die. This is marked by the last ten seconds of music.
Besides the theme, which I truly like, I think that Orcs of Sahaar are very promising. I didn't like their version in Heroes VI but their current look and lineup is truly impressive. Now it's time to wait for flower sniffers and mushroom eaters. 
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