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Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
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7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
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31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~ This MEGA THREAD is 1635 pages long: 1 200 400 600 800 ... 833 834 835 836 837 ... 1000 1200 1400 1600 1635 · «PREV / NEXT»
Petiknight
Petiknight


Adventuring Hero
posted May 22, 2015 11:33 AM

EnergyZ said:
What's this about the elf? I watched but nothing but the picture of the closed Beta is seen.


If somebody could share with me how to share a picture in my post, might I could show you. Its hard to see, or I am blind, but there is something there for sure

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted May 22, 2015 11:36 AM

Maurice said:
Avonu said:
Play Age of Wonders for example as next and see how it can be fixed.


Their system is indeed very good. Units there have 3 action points each turn. Once attacking, all remaining action points are used up and most standard attacks trigger once for each action point that was available then. With 3 action points available, they attack 3 times in a row. Movement is separated in 3 zones (green, yellow, orange); movement within green keeps 3 action points, movements in yellow has 1 less and in orange only 1 action point remains.

In that system, retaliation attacks consume action points of the unit in the turn to come; so if your unit retaliated to three attacks, it will likely start the next turn without action points and without movement points. Trying to move through tiles directly surrounding an enemy unit while it is facing those tiles will evoke an attack of opportunity, which also takes an action point just like retaliation strikes. As such, each unit gets 3 such attacks of opportunity per turn, but only for tiles from which they can't be flanked. Tiles behind the unit can be freely traversed, without risking an attack of opportunity.

Of course, exceptions are present as well. Some units have "Tireless" which means they have an infinite number of retaliations and attacks of opportunity, without it costing action points. Some units have omni-directional awareness, so it can't be flanked and all enemies passing through tiles adjacent to it will suffer attacks of opportunity. And the reverse is also present: some units have a charge ability, which nullifies attacks of opportunity as they charge past those units.

In Age of Wonders 3, you can change the facing of your units long as you have action points remaining. Unfortunately, you can't tell a unit to ignore a certain enemy unit, so whenever a unit gets attacked - regardless of how much damage the attack does - it will turn to face the attacker. The enemy can abuse that by alternating attacks from either side of the unit, since turns are per player and not per creature stack. Players are free to select the combat order in which their units act.

You forgot to say that when unit uses "defense" command, they are immune to flanking until the rest of that turn or until someone with Guard breaker ability attacks them.

But yes, Age of Wonders 3 combat is very good and quite complex. I like flanking, but if they want for flanking to work in Heroes 7 they would need to redesign the whole combat system.
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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted May 22, 2015 11:51 AM

I'd rather prefer HoMM to not be another AoW but whatever.

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malax83
malax83


Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
posted May 22, 2015 12:12 PM
Edited by malax83 at 12:15, 22 May 2015.

I would be surprised if they risk so many changes, i must agree with you, the system of battles looks good in Age of Wonders 3 (never test) and more, they could name Heroes 4X and turn in a risky direction but, what ever, we have nothing to lose.

PS : i m really surprised how is it possible to flank the unit you are already attacking, it s very noob.

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted May 22, 2015 12:31 PM

Avirosb said:
I'd rather prefer HoMM to not be another AoW but whatever.

Of course, but when did that ever happen? The closest HoMM got to the AoW was in HoMM4 and it still was very very different from AoW(also quite different from other HoMMs as well), it just had some features of it.
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TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 22, 2015 01:03 PM
Edited by TD at 13:21, 22 May 2015.

Probably no surprise, but that video did not even get me to consider pre-ordering the game.

Positive:
+AI turns should eventually become fast(was slow just like in h5 in the demo)
+For hero recruitment I saw army with "wolf + wolf" -stacks so I'm hopeful there will be great variance in armies(and warmachines) with heroes recruited.
+AI doesn't cheat(I didn't quite catch what's the difference between easy and hard AI in the long run though, will hard truly be more strategic...?)

Negative:
-Artifact family as seen on the video is no different from set, it simply has only single bonus for 2 items instead of having more of them.(So these will be much easier bonuses to get, let's make the game that much easier and more simple!)
-Magic guild spell-type is just another random element away to ease and simplify the game
-Prime magic-school seems to be again the most powerful school and the base that can boost magic hero in general.
-Economy gives +250 gold for each skill-level which seem high(3 levels equals +750)
-Buildings seem too cheap(another ease to game-play, simplification)
-Fire adventure-map spell is another copypaste from h6
-Flanking system still has the same problems as I feared from before

Overall the demo just reinforced(as usual) the image that h7 will not require a whole lot of strategy nor tactics. It has been simplified to make it very easy game to play and seems to target masses more than hardcore gamers

Edit:
PS Cleglaw I disagree with you about Heroes Online maps. Most if not all of the maps I played were full of narrow corridors and/or choke points(was during beta at least). Some of the maps did have open spaces too, but it was all about enemy manipulation forcing them to use certain routes. H7 has much more open battle-maps in comparison and more directions to flank also(since it has squares). Also Heroes online troop mobility was much lower than h7. I'll admit I didn't like the waltzing around with flanking, but really as some have suggested(me included) there were few easy ways to fix that. Unfortunately devs just chose to take the system as is from Heroes Online without really fixing it.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted May 22, 2015 02:54 PM
Edited by Storm-Giant at 14:55, 22 May 2015.

Hermes said:
Edit:

In regards to flanking, I think its a good feature. Just imagine when fighting enemy hero with 7-8 troops each - it's not going to be easy to find a spot to flank. And more opportunities to protect your stacks too.

No if you can't control who your unit is facing. The way it was showed yesterday, your units will get constantly flanked, which to put it bluntly, sucks.
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KingImp
KingImp


Famous Hero
posted May 22, 2015 03:15 PM
Edited by KingImp at 15:16, 22 May 2015.

Unless I missed it, can you once again not see what your hero's specialty is when choosing them at start?
Are you kidding me with this? We've only asked for this to be put in since H5.


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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted May 22, 2015 03:36 PM
Edited by kiryu133 at 16:02, 22 May 2015.

most of the Ui problems will likely be fixed, especially missing information. I can't stretch how much of a non-issue that is.

EDIT: you can see hero specialties in heroes 5 by right-clicking their portraits. same in h6 (though i'm not certain about that one)
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icefield
icefield


Adventuring Hero
posted May 22, 2015 03:41 PM

The AoW system should stay in AoW - in Heroes I prefer simpler rules.  So, no attack of opportunity etc.

But regarding flanking in H7 - I insist that it should be rare and require thinking (also to counter it), but if successful give a visible bonus, or it's just redundant.

So, my version would be: you can choose where your unit is facing when defending or moving without attack.  (I know that this won't happen, requires coding.)  More importantly, flanking works only from directly behind.  This can still be implemented.  Then, a +25% bonus could be ok.

Average combat duration has to be improved.  Not as fast and random as H5, but similar to H2 and H3.  Those were close to optimal.

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KingImp
KingImp


Famous Hero
posted May 22, 2015 03:47 PM
Edited by KingImp at 16:13, 22 May 2015.

kiryu133 said:
most of the Ui problems will likely be fixed, especially missing information. I can't stretch how much of a non-issue that is.

EDIT: you can see hero specialties in heroes 5 by right-clicking their portraits. same in h6 (though i'm not certain about that one)


Yup, heard the same thing back during the H5 development.
Guess what? It still was never fixed in that game or added to H6.

EDIT: Neither right nor left clicking do anything in H5. Yes, the name of the specialty does come up if you hover the pointer over it, but without the manual that the Age of Heroes team created because Ubi was too lazy to do themselves, there is no way to know what each specialty actually does.

As for H6, you don't even see the name of the specialty. NOTHING.  

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Findan
Findan


Adventuring Hero
posted May 22, 2015 06:31 PM

Petiknight said:


I read this forum since two years -almost daily- and finally I wanted to post something as might your eyes skipped in the beta. In the video around 1:03:48 you can see some elf unit.



There is nothing but image of female academy magic hero Only elven stuff I've seen in the video is:



Petiknight said:


Generally you can feel the low-budget in every aspects of the game. I still have hope that the game will be amasing. But in 2015 i wanted to have something more... Respect to All


I have the same feeling.

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the_green_drag
the_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted May 22, 2015 06:48 PM
Edited by the_green_drag at 18:55, 22 May 2015.

It's a shame they don't throw in small hints or reveal a unit when they do streams. People have been asking for slyvan so why not toss a creature in the background and just don't acknowledge it. Like a where's Waldo type deal

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 22, 2015 07:02 PM

the_green_drag said:
It's a shame they don't throw in small hints or reveal a unit when they do streams. People have been asking for slyvan so why not toss a creature in the background and just don't acknowledge it. Like a where's Waldo type deal

But it probably doesn't look as good as the CE's box and awesome figurine!
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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted May 22, 2015 07:03 PM

oh silly green dragon. that would require effort!

..then again it might be considered marketing, the only place ubi does bring some effort
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted May 22, 2015 07:07 PM

the_green_drag said:
It's a shame they don't throw in small hints or reveal a unit when they do streams. People have been asking for slyvan so why not toss a creature in the background and just don't acknowledge it. Like a where's Waldo type deal


unfortunately, that would require them to understand what people want lol
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Findan
Findan


Adventuring Hero
posted May 22, 2015 07:25 PM

Galaad said:
the_green_drag said:
It's a shame they don't throw in small hints or reveal a unit when they do streams. People have been asking for slyvan so why not toss a creature in the background and just don't acknowledge it. Like a where's Waldo type deal

But it probably doesn't look as good as the CE's box and awesome figurine!


Oh my...the end of stream was so embarrassing O_O :S

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girinula
girinula

Tavern Dweller
posted May 22, 2015 07:52 PM

Not sure if someone had brought this up yet.

I watched the twitch vod last night and am pleased with the town screen. It is much brighter and smoother than before.

However, i noticed that they stop showing the animation of a building appearing when you build them.

You build a building, then it will stay in the same page, when you go back to the town screen, the building is already there. It is difficult to figure out what i have just built sometimes.

This is a very awkward feeling. I guess they want to show you the new town level and new buildings unlocked, but please make it like after you've close the construction page, the buildings appear like they used do in the previous games.

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted May 22, 2015 09:02 PM

girinula said:
You build a building, then it will stay in the same page, when you go back to the town screen, the building is already there. It is difficult to figure out what i have just built sometimes.

This is a very awkward feeling. I guess they want to show you the new town level and new buildings unlocked, but please make it like after you've close the construction page, the buildings appear like they used do in the previous games.
It is probably just a beta "feature" and will likely be removed in the final game, I hope at least.

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the_green_drag
the_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted May 22, 2015 10:25 PM

Lol yea I dream way too big sometimes

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