Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Do you like elves and dwarves having their own faction?
Thread: Do you like elves and dwarves having their own faction? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted August 20, 2014 10:58 AM

All things considered, no. The Dwarf faction is the worst in Ashan by far and I would be gladly off without it. I like Elves but I much preferred the pre-H5 lineups of the "nature" towns with a bit more variation. Thankfully we're back to 8 creatures like H4 so hopefully it won't be Elven-overload.

And yet I still understand why they chose to give these races their own faction, it's because they want to make an elaborate story. Let's face it, before Ashan, Heroes was only about a couple of Heroes whose random creatures were never explained. WarCraft made the separate races thing a trend and Ashan is just riding on that so they can give the game a proper story. Nothing can be done about this anymore...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted August 20, 2014 11:42 AM
Edited by Avirosb at 11:44, 20 Aug 2014.

Danny said:
Let's face it, before Ashan, Heroes was only about a couple of Heroes whose random creatures were never explained.
Good thing that, let's make things a little more ambiguous again.
Tend to make things more interesting in the long run.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Alex_Yakub
Alex_Yakub


Famous Hero
posted August 20, 2014 12:06 PM

The thing I like about Ashan is that every creature has an explanation of being in certain faction. It makes world look a little bit deeper.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted August 20, 2014 01:13 PM
Edited by Avirosb at 13:14, 20 Aug 2014.

Alex_Yakub said:
The thing I like about Ashan is that every creature has an explanation of being in certain faction. It makes world look a little bit deeper.
It loses some of its depth when Ubi frequently retcons stuff like vampires and raskshasas though.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Alex_Yakub
Alex_Yakub


Famous Hero
posted August 20, 2014 01:16 PM

Avirosb said:
Alex_Yakub said:
The thing I like about Ashan is that every creature has an explanation of being in certain faction. It makes world look a little bit deeper.
It loses some of its depth when Ubi frequently retcons stuff like vampires and raskshasas though.

Rakshasas being beastman is better than them being angry spirits imho. Agree on vampires though. Undead aging in reverse? WTF?
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
VOKIALBG
VOKIALBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted August 20, 2014 02:05 PM
Edited by VOKIALBG at 14:10, 20 Aug 2014.

Fal-Parsi said:
Dave_Jame said:
1: Rakshasa. A mythical creature that is not overused. I think one of their best moves.

2: Orcs = Human mutants. Rather then Aliens from other world. More in the line of Tolkien's orcs who were of elven descent.

3: Asian based nagas: Original in the way "it was not used for a long time" Still hated for too much use of Female model, even if they were original asian myths.

4: Liches and Vampires: Ubi tried to make their vampires different. So instead of beastial nosferatu like creatures, they made them beeings that need blood to not get devoured by the venom in their body. But how did this inovation came out. Well most people here do wnat those aristocratic nobles or bestial stalkers.



1. I hated it for its excessive blue, but without doubt the Rakshasaa is a cool addition if it gets better coloured. A good substitution for the naga.

2. Their origin doesn't matter at all, I don't care about the new lore. What matters for me is what I see in the game, and those orcs look like any other orc, although I wouldn't complain too much about that (the american theme in H6 was cool). Now, look at Heroes II and IV; how many orcs have you seen with a pig face?
That really is something unique in videogames, don't you think?

3. I'm not very interested in asian themes, but I liked H6 nagas. I  prefer the swamps of H3, but still think nagas were a nice addition to Ashan. It's a shame they're not coming back and improved in H7. I also liked Irina, her heroine.
Problem is, visually they were way too uniform.

4. I think you're again speaking about lore, about what we do not see when exploring the adventure map or fighting a battle -and those are the things that matter.


Orcs are not from another planet in the NWC came. Also the whole thing with mixed race of barbarians is great idea. Stronghold wasnt only town of the orc. There were barbarians who were humans and even from other races and towns. Orcs were really unique and different in the old Heroes games. As I posted earlier its not only the creatures. BUT how they put them in different way that makes them unique. Dwarfs and elfs are older then Tolkien, much older then his work, but he "use" them in a way that makes them different and special, and unique for his literature. NWC did the same with many other creatures. Ubi just copied all.

And I agree with Fal-Parsi. Rakshasaa is just lion like Naga. And vamp/lich thing... really... vampires are not fully vampires that way, litches are just the... same as before.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted August 20, 2014 02:17 PM
Edited by Dave_Jame at 14:17, 20 Aug 2014.

VOKIALBG said:

Orcs are not from another planet in the NWC came. Also the whole thing with mixed race of barbarians is great idea. Stronghold wasnt only town of the orc. There were barbarians who were humans and even from other races and towns. Orcs were really unique and different in the old Heroes games. As I posted earlier its not only the creatures. BUT how they put them in different way that makes them unique. Dwarfs and elfs are older then Tolkien, much older then his work, but he "use" them in a way that makes them different and special, and unique for his literature. NWC did the same with many other creatures. Ubi just copied all.

And I agree with Fal-Parsi. Rakshasaa is just lion like Naga. And vamp/lich thing... really... vampires are not fully vampires that way, litches are just the... same as before.


I would really like to comment on this but there would be no use in it. You will never ever change your perspective or recognize anything you do not want to see. I'm sorry I tried to broughten yours and everybody else's sight, and I'm sorry I wasted your and my time doing so. If you can't se the different in approaches, and you insist on calling something "old" and "not used anymore" as unique there is just no hope for a conversation.
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted August 20, 2014 02:47 PM
Edited by markkur at 14:49, 20 Aug 2014.

I voted for two factions. I don't see them hanging out together (not because of JRRT) One is ruling the woodland and the other is digging and tunneling for gold and gems. And...Elves hate dust.

Seriously, just because the H5 line-up for the short-bearded-guys was a little flat doesn't mean the faction should be scrapped. I've never understood why Elementals could not be separated and be more faction oriented. i.e. Dwarves become buddies with Earth, Elves with Water, Inferno with fire and Wizards with Air...etc.
____________
"Do your own research"

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
VOKIALBG
VOKIALBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted August 20, 2014 03:05 PM

@Dave, you already told us that you dont care for the creature and the gameplay. SO, maybe you really have to leave this. You wrong, you saw it, we know it, but you'll never admit it. Discussion over.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted August 20, 2014 03:29 PM

markkur said:
I've never understood why Elementals could not be separated and be more faction oriented. i.e. Dwarves become buddies with Earth, Elves with Water, Inferno with fire and Wizards with Air...etc.

Wll, they sort of tried to do this in heroes 6 with glories and mizu-kami. The idea might have been OK, if they hadn't failed to give those (significantly) different models.
As long as the summon elemental spells exist you cannot put the elementals in factions. Besides, it would be really lazy and not much appreciated.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted August 20, 2014 05:53 PM

I'm a big fan of towns based on "alignments", "culture" or "themes" rather than races. For this reason, I preferred when elves and dwarves were together under the naturalist banner of like in Heroes I-III. There are already too many Warcraft/Warhammer clones with factions based on stereotypical races. To me, it feels like Ubi has tried to satisfy younger teens playing such games by imitating them, abandoning the soul of the Heroes series in the process.

Sadly, we will probably have to wait until Ubi decides to scrap Nival's crappy lore and let us revisit the old universe until we get our Sorceress town back. Which I doubt will ever happen.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Dwarfurious
Dwarfurious


Adventuring Hero
posted August 21, 2014 10:55 PM

It wouldnt make sense. Even though they sort of compliment eachother, offsetting weaknesses and what not, it would end up looking more like Dwarves just do all the hard work, they'd also slow the nimble elves down.
They live in drastically different climates, and its not a copy of warhammer or tolkein, dwarves have always been and always 'should' be a very earthen people, underground or in the mountains, smiths and miners. If you want to take traits that define a character, just make a new character at that point. One thing a lot of fantasy games could stand to do is make the dwarves LESS human, tired of the 'they're just short humans' thing because its often TRUE.

An interesting take on Dwarves would be to focus much more on what separates them apart, such as Engineer/machinery which some games do. Alternatively, focus on their connection and control with the Earth, a race of Earthbenders practically. They 'were' sometimes simply earth/death spirits.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted August 21, 2014 11:13 PM

Elves and dwarves both originate from Nordic mythology. And a forest is grown upon earth - right? Mountains and forests are part of the natural world- those themes naturally suit each other.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Dwarfurious
Dwarfurious


Adventuring Hero
posted August 21, 2014 11:24 PM


Not pictured, Forests.

I think that its interesting that Dwarves make forts at the peaks of mountains, they are a subterranean race and yet preside higher over land than others. It makes strategic sense, its a lot harder to invade them when the only entrance is in a mountain peak and the Dwarves have no problem with heights or cold.

Although, what really gets me are the TOWNS, the Fortress cities in Heroes 5 were amazingly unique, i've never seen a Dwarf city that was such a burning pit. Elves have a reverence for nature, dwarves tend to plunder it, at the same time they like making beautiful things out of it too. Plus the whole "Worshippers of the Fire Dragon" thing, if a Rune Priest so much as sneezes, a whole elven city could burn down

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted August 22, 2014 09:52 AM

Dwarfurious said:
I think that its interesting that Dwarves make forts at the peaks of mountains, they are a subterranean race and yet preside higher over land than others. It makes strategic sense, its a lot harder to invade them when the only entrance is in a mountain peak and the Dwarves have no problem with heights or cold.
Well it's the environment isn't it, if you want to set up cave cities you do it in mountains where the rock's hard, because if you do it down on the lowlands the place will flood out in no time.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Doomhammer
Doomhammer


Known Hero
Smasher of pasties
posted September 23, 2014 09:08 AM

OmegaDestroyer said:
No.  I prefer the older system where a faction revolved around what type of hero you could recruit and not a specific race.


+1

Totally agree. The game is supposed to be focused on the heroes, not on races. Thats why its called heroes of might and magic.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Paiazza
Paiazza


Known Hero
لىخ ضل
posted September 23, 2014 09:27 AM
Edited by Paiazza at 09:28, 23 Sep 2014.

I'd like both elves and dwarves to do have their own faction however with the elves I'm fine but with the dwarf faction I don't like the idea that all, well most of units, being dwarves. Instead make them a nordic, artic-glacial inspring faction with all that nordic creatures but dwarf being just one unit, not the race itself.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Moriak71
Moriak71


Hired Hero
posted September 23, 2014 01:07 PM

Same here. I'd like them to have an own faction, but with more unique creatures - not dwarf shooter, mage, warrior, riding something etc. Same with elves. I think 2 elf units would be enough for a town.
Also I do not like the idea of the built robot like machines for dwarfs - I don't think we should go this way, but it's just my opinion.
Anyway, I love the old setup as well - so whatever they throw at me, I will accept, if it feels and plays good.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Pavijan
Pavijan


Adventuring Hero
posted September 23, 2014 05:52 PM

JeremiahEmo said:

Dwarves and Elves are too big to be a single unit in a faction, you know what I mean?

Exactly.
As I already said I count myself among the Ashan haters and would be overjoyed if powers above decide to erase it from the franchise altogether. But that situation in H1-3 has always bothered me. Dwarves and Elves are both iconic archetypes in fantasy genre and they both deserve factions based (but not entirely comprised of) on them.
That is one of the rare things that Ubi's devs have done right.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 23, 2014 05:58 PM

OmegaDestroyer said:
No.  I prefer the older system where a faction revolved around what type of hero you could recruit and not a specific race.

+1

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0602 seconds