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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: What is the optimal battlefield size?
Thread: What is the optimal battlefield size? This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
kayna
kayna


Supreme Hero
posted August 22, 2014 01:58 AM

Maybe shooter damage could be gradual. full damage at a 2 square range and reduce like 7% damage per additional square.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted August 22, 2014 09:47 AM
Edited by MattII at 09:49, 22 Aug 2014.

Or maybe just set a maximum damage range and drop it according to that, after all, an axe doesn't travel half as far as an arrow right? It's be a sort of penalty for units that have no melee penalty. Of course you may need to think about creatures like wizards which will do maximum damage out to maximum range.

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malax83
malax83


Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
posted August 22, 2014 11:13 AM

I think the main problem of Heroes 5 and 6 is the size of the 3D map. There are less possibility in term of "templates", unless they spend enought time to work with that. When mechanics links these two sides of strategy - the battlefield and the map - i'm worrying about the limits due to 3D ressources and the repetability of map. As i m not able to speak a good english, i m telling if someone could open a thread with a cool presentation.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 22, 2014 03:45 PM

What kind of other more intuitive ability than incorporeal would ghosts have in your world, Stormy?

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 22, 2014 03:51 PM

I never said I had one, I was just expressing my hatred towards H5 implementation.
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 22, 2014 03:53 PM

So basically you're argument is a totally subjective one.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 22, 2014 04:09 PM

...yes?

I'm expressing my opinion based on past experiences, of course it's going to be subjective.
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 22, 2014 04:38 PM

And here I was thinking we were having an decent conversation where arguments were everything.
You heard him folks, he doesn't have a reason more for hating incorporability that he has for hating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 22, 2014 04:42 PM

and you completely ignore the part where I said it was unpredictable. Neat.
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 22, 2014 04:54 PM
Edited by Stevie at 16:55, 22 Aug 2014.

Irrelevant. Some people like alcibiades and myself like it that way.
But why don't you argue against every unpredictable thing in Heroes if you so much dislike it? From the randomness of resources quantity, to morale and luck, to skillwheel, to weeks of, to the amount of damage creatures do in battle?

And trust me, the ghost incorporeal wasn't THAT unpredictable. There was a 1/3 100% hit rotation IIRC, so you could just adjust to that.

A mere 25% OUTSIDE OF OPTIMAL RANGE (that means outside of that 5-6-8-9 range JJ was talking about) is not that game breaking but something that could change the way a battle goes.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 22, 2014 05:49 PM
Edited by Maurice at 17:49, 22 Aug 2014.

I think Storm's main argument is that it's an "all-or-nothing" thing, no middle ground or sliding scale. While I personally didn't mind as much, I can understand his frustrations with it.

Still, if everything we could ever argue about were cold objective things, rather than personal feelings or insights about a matter, most conversations would be boring, wouldn't it?

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 22, 2014 05:55 PM

Stevie said:
Irrelevant. Some people like alcibiades and myself like it that way.

We're talking about my opinion and it's irrelevant what I say. Nice Stevie, very nice.
Stevie said:
But why don't you argue against every unpredictable thing in Heroes if you so much dislike it? From the randomness of resources quantity, to morale and luck, to skillwheel, to weeks of, to the amount of damage creatures do in battle?

If I don't complain about resources quantity, weeks of or damage don't in battle it's because I don't find them FRUSTATING like I explained in the previous page.

Oh, and I've critized the way randomness was in H5 in the past, plenty of times. Ghost weren't alone in this matter.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted August 22, 2014 06:13 PM

I kind of liked the, well let's call it controlled unpredictability of it, because like Stevie said, you'd never have a streak of 3 of either hit or miss. Sure, it's not like I didn't have a good number of episodes cursing at the screen caused by this specific element, but at the same time, it also did add a strategic element to it, like keeping score of when to use your hero attack to absorb a miss to guarantee a hit on next strike etc.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 22, 2014 06:29 PM

Yes, the 'no 3 hit/miss in a row' thingy was a great idea by Nival, and I liked it. But I still got mad when my Archangel stack missed against 1-10 ghosts
And let me remind you that in H5 creatures dealt a lot of damage, so every miss had a significant impact in the battle.

I'd rather have flat damage reduction as you said earlier, but seeing as we aren't going anywhere, we should move onto something else.
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Miru
Miru


Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
posted August 27, 2014 10:02 PM

Stevie said:
And here I was thinking we were having an decent conversation where arguments were everything.
You heard him folks, he doesn't have a reason more for hating incorporability that he has for hating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
You don't need to provide an alternative for something to be bad. I also disliked the ghosts chance based strength. Incorporal could mean other friendly units can walk through it, or simply damage reduction from physical sources. It doesn't matter. You're just being a snow about it, and your Ad Hominem is far less decent conversation than his opinion of the mechanic.
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.

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PyroStock
PyroStock


Adventuring Hero
posted August 28, 2014 12:07 AM

Ghosts (and zombies) were often the last things in a battle I tried to physically kill because of incorporeal.  I didn't mind the incorporeal on ghosts (aside from temporary frustrations & bad luck), but I found it odd that ghosts were incorporeal, yet ghost dragons (and spectral dragons, banshees, etc) were not incorporeal.
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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 28, 2014 12:30 AM

kayna said:
Maybe shooter damage could be gradual. full damage at a 2 square range and reduce like 7% damage per additional square.

though it might be a bit complicated.

Storm-Giant said:
Then in a big battle, your ghosts don't avoid the two first attacks and they've become useless. So frustating


I thought they were quite tankish, I raised them in priority. with vampirism or antimagic they could be quite nasty.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 28, 2014 06:47 AM
Edited by Stevie at 06:47, 28 Aug 2014.

Miru said:
You don't need to provide an alternative for something to be bad. I also disliked the ghosts chance based strength. Incorporal could mean other friendly units can walk through it, or simply damage reduction from physical sources. It doesn't matter. You're just being a snow about it, and your Ad Hominem is far less decent conversation than his opinion of the mechanic.


Tell us, do you dislike peanut butter and jelly too? Because your dislike on the incorporeal is nothing different than that, which is no argument. There is no other more intuitive ability that ghosts can have, just a damage reduction is no real incorporeal either. If you so much dislike incorporeal, then work your tactics around that, like using magic for example.

I'm sorry for the ad hominem, but to me this seems a matter of preference at best - an unusual one. I wouldn't consider randomness an enemy and like it in some cases but dislike it in others.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 28, 2014 08:46 AM

The fact that this ability raised so many hackles shows - that they did it right. It's one thing to spam an annoying ability all over the place - like a Dispel ability in combination with Strike and Return and No Enemy Retaliation in HoMM 6 -, but another to give an average unit an ability that makes you uncomfortable because it's somewhat incalculable.
Playing Necro, it's fun using them. Playing against them needs special tactics with creeping, which is fine.

That's why it was just as well to leave the ability with them.

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Miru
Miru


Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
posted August 28, 2014 10:08 PM

"I also disliked the ghosts chance based strength." The fact that how well they do is effectively based on a coin toss is snow. I don't see how attacks going through them half of the time, but then not the other half of the time even makes sense. Its like they are incorporeal, but only 50% of the time -- depending on who won the coin toss. I've been in battles where the ghosts flew over and wrecked my shooters and I failed to hit them 4/5 times and the hit was with a weak stack. I don't mind risk analysis but this isn't strategic its just gambling. I can't think of a better reason to dislike something.
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.

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