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| Thread: Heroes 7 Stronghold Orcs of Sahaar [speculation] |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 02:33 PM |
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Yeah, H5.
Tbh I don't want Roks or Thunderbirds in Stronghold anymore, as we already have enough birds. Wyverns could use a skin upgrade, otherwise I pretty much agree with everything you said.
So if Gnolls were to replace Goblins, what would their ability be? Thinking about hyenas, only thing that comes to mind is how they howl and call other members of the pack, but that's more wolvish like.
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 03:04 PM |
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Edited by Steyn at 15:04, 21 Sep 2014.
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Stormcaller said:
So if Gnolls were to replace Goblins, what would their ability be? Thinking about hyenas, only thing that comes to mind is how they howl and call other members of the pack, but that's more wolvish like.
Or maybe they would laugh at you 
On a serious note: why would gnolls have to replace goblins? I would prefer to see them replace crushers, which imo are much more fit as elite.
My stronghold line-up would be:
Core:
- goblin(with boomerang)
- harpy
- gnoll
Elite:
- crusher
- shaman
- centaur
Champion:
- cyclops
- wyvern
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Royin
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 03:12 PM |
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Edited by Royin at 15:13, 21 Sep 2014.
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[Core]
Goblin
Orc Warrior
Harpy
[Elite]
Shaman
Centaur
Roc/Thunderbird
[Champion]
Cyclops
Behemoth
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 03:23 PM |
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Harpies? lol no. Half birds half women have nothing to do with Stronghold. They sucked in H6 and I hope they don't return.
My line-up:
Core
Goblins or Gnolls
Centaur
Crushers
Elite
Ogre ( and Ogre Mage upgrade which would serve as a shaman unit )
Wvyern
Some big orc like slayers/trolls
Champion
Behemoth
Cyclops
Oliphants as a alternative instead of Cyclops perhaps.
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 04:22 PM |
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Stormcaller said:
Harpies? lol no. Half birds half women have nothing to do with Stronghold. They sucked in H6 and I hope they don't return.
An opinion that I don't share.
I think orcs and failed orcs (goblins) in the same tier is a little strange. Also, the orcs were specifically made to be awesome fighters in order to battle demons, which imo is elite material. If your standard orc warrior is of similar strength to you standard human soldier, why would the wizards have felt the need to create the orcs? That's why I put the crushers as elite (though slayers are also fine) and gnolls as melee core.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 05:09 PM |
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Steyn said:
Stormcaller said:
Harpies? lol no. Half birds half women have nothing to do with Stronghold. They sucked in H6 and I hope they don't return.
An opinion that I don't share.
I think orcs and failed orcs (goblins) in the same tier is a little strange. Also, the orcs were specifically made to be awesome fighters in order to battle demons, which imo is elite material. If your standard orc warrior is of similar strength to you standard human soldier, why would the wizards have felt the need to create the orcs? That's why I put the crushers as elite (though slayers are also fine) and gnolls as melee core.
I feel the same, though Goblins do tend to have higher growth rates. 7 goblins is equal to 4 crushers, so each goblin is weaker than an orc, but they are equal in game strength due to population.
I'd like to see Gnolls replace Crushers/maulers/the low-level melee-orc of the season as well, as I feel 2 melee orcs is a little bit bland. Discounting Haven (the fools, always having 5+ human units. This is one thing I liked about H6, it had only 4 humans. Progress in my eyes. Now with H7, we'll have 6(?) again. Wooo.) and I suppose Inferno and Necropolis (since they are all demons and all undead, respectively) Stronghold has the most "leading species" units, as they have 3 orc units, but since Cyclops and Goblin are pretty much always a given and are super close in relation to orcs anyway, they'd have essentially 5 orcoid creatures, automatically, leaving 3 units to tinker with additionally.
I'd love to mix things up with some more beastmen or Wyverns (or Thunder bird, but with people clamoring over 2 birds in the form of phoenix and "Magic Bird", they might not seem so welcome) and removing a melee orc is a sure way to open up spaces for more units. (And, if you solidify Orcs as the melee and spell-casting elite, then no one would question the "generic" Orc's fighting capabilities, and the Wizards would have done a good job in making them. Even more so, they'd fit right between... Cyclopes and Goblins, which were deemed too dumb (but strong) or too weak (but clever), respectively. Orcs can be the successful middle man they are searching for.)
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 05:32 PM |
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About Orc Warriors/Crushers
I'd say just make them one of the strongest Core units, almost equal in power to an Elite- like the Dread Knights of the Core tier. They could be relatively expensive, though, for balance's sake. In all fantasy worlds, Orcs form the backbone of the army- either their own faction (like Warcraft/Warhammer) or serving another evil power (like Lord of the Rings). So, IMHO the basic Orcs shouldn't be Elites, and as I said, an Elite melee Orc (or Ogre- which is almost the same) is too boring a unit and should be replaced with some sort of wild beast (Oliphaunt or Gnasher- though they could be ridden by an Orc, forming a kind of savage cavalry). And if people qualm about just 1 truly Orcish unit in a faction supposed to be dominated by them- just make "Orc" a generic name for all Demonblooded, experiment-born humanoids, like in LoTR where you have Goblins (smaller cave-dwellers like in Moria), "regular" Orcs and Uruk-hai and they're all Orcs.
Also, Goblins shouldn't be failed experiments- just earlier ones. Let's say with less Demon blood, or the blood of less potent Demons- until the poor convicts to become Orcs were able to absorb large amounts of powerful Demon blood and stay alive. Cyclops should be the result of Demon blood overdose, or the blood of Devils/Demon Lords (or both).
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted September 21, 2014 05:50 PM |
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moonshade said:
Also, Goblins shouldn't be failed experiments- just earlier ones. Let's say with less Demon blood, or the blood of less potent Demons- until the poor convicts to become Orcs were able to absorb large amounts of powerful Demon blood and stay alive. Cyclops should be the result of Demon blood overdose, or the blood of Devils/Demon Lords (or both).
Well, it's pretty much the same in lore. Goblins were created with Imp blood, Cyclops - with blood of major demons. And Goblins were the first one created.
They are considered as failed experiments by wizards, for their reasons (Goblins are too weak and coward, Cyclops - too unruly and with child-like mind). Orcs were a success cuz they're stable.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 06:10 PM |
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moonshade said:
I'd say just make them one of the strongest Core units, almost equal in power to an Elite- like the Dread Knights of the Core tier. They could be relatively expensive, though, for balance's sake. In all fantasy worlds, Orcs form the backbone of the army- either their own faction (like Warcraft/Warhammer) or serving another evil power (like Lord of the Rings). So, IMHO the basic Orcs shouldn't be Elites, and as I said, an Elite melee Orc (or Ogre- which is almost the same) is too boring a unit and should be replaced with some sort of wild beast (Oliphaunt or Gnasher- though they could be ridden by an Orc, forming a kind of savage cavalry). And if people qualm about just 1 truly Orcish unit in a faction supposed to be dominated by them- just make "Orc" a generic name for all Demonblooded, experiment-born humanoids, like in LoTR where you have Goblins (smaller cave-dwellers like in Moria), "regular" Orcs and Uruk-hai and they're all Orcs.
Also, Goblins shouldn't be failed experiments- just earlier ones. Let's say with less Demon blood, or the blood of less potent Demons- until the poor convicts to become Orcs were able to absorb large amounts of powerful Demon blood and stay alive. Cyclops should be the result of Demon blood overdose, or the blood of Devils/Demon Lords (or both).
I guess we could have a "super core" melee Orc, but I kinda like Gnolls. And Oliphants are just big ramming things, as far as I can tell, which Cyclopes already got covered (Behemoths too, if they were included) and I don't know much about Gnashers, but they don't seem very appealing to me. They were from that H4 expansion, right? They look interesting (Dinosaur-esque) but they're function is still just charge and attack. They need to have some cool specials, I believe, to rank as a proper elite.
At the same time, I find it a little strange that spell-casting Orcs would be so much better than a melee Orc, considering that's what Orcs pride themselves on, their melee proficiency. If you remove the Crusher-equivalent and make the Slayer/Panther equivalent the "standard", then you could say that Orcs are actually very, very good at combat, as opposed to the standard being essentially 1 on 1 equals to Praetorians, Shark Guard, Assassins, Maniacs, Ghouls, and so forth, which are all about as good as the standard "core" Orc. While they are better at striaght up combat, the others tended to have better abilities to keep them afloat. A elite orc, as a standard orc, would have no problems defeating the "standard" Human soldier or demonic horde member.
Either way, I just want one melee orc, and as long as they are good quality orcs, I guess I wouldn't mind. Would we rather have a non-orc elite (with more interesting abilities) or a non-orc core (which tend to have less robust abilities) in the stead of the removed orc?
And as for your "Demonblood" naming... I thought it was literally orcoid. I could be wrong, though. I thought Orc was for the "middle ground" experiments that were the most successful (strong and smart) while Goblins and Cyclops, though very closely related, and thus orcoid, were at the ends of the spectrum (either "smart" or STRONG, but not much else).
Not to mention that I could swear it was written somewhere that Goblins were created from imp blood, first, and deemed a failure, then they used Pit Fiend blood later to create Cyclopes, but they too were deemed failures, and Orcs made last using the middle man demon blood to become, well, Orcs. I could be wrong, but I could swear it was like this.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted September 21, 2014 06:22 PM |
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Protolisk said:
I could be wrong, but I could swear it was like this.
As I said already, it's pretty much the truth.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 06:26 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
As I said already, it's pretty much the truth.
When I started typing, your comment wasn't there. I left and came back and finished my post. I didn't see it. 
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 08:19 PM |
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How about boar riding golbins for a core unit?  Remember those neutral guys back from H3?
I think that would be cool and it could potentially cover for wolf raiders. High mobility and decent damage but low hp and df, which suits orks perfectly.
And in the most fantasy universes, your standard ork warrior is not that powerful. In warhammer and warhammer 40k, they swarm in numbers to overwhelm the enemy. Sure they're big and physically powerful, but they lack armor, discipline and stuff.
Hence why I have no issues with orc warriors being core.
Oliphants could potentially be a great unit, but that role is already covered by Cyclops.
I could really go with lots of different unit options for Orcs aside Harpies. I simply can't stand them.
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 09:18 PM |
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Stormcaller said:
How about boar riding golbins for a core unit? Remember those neutral guys back from H3?
I think that would be cool and it could potentially cover for wolf raiders. High mobility and decent damage but low hp and df, which suits orks perfectly.
I read that as if the boar is ridding the goblins, and if so, I would be very concerned for the goblins' backs.  Besides that, I thought the boar riders looked kinda dumb. If anything is being ridden by goblins, I'd say it should be wolves. And with wolves in Haven right now, I'd say that the goblins shouldn't be riding anything.
Quote:
And in the most fantasy universes, your standard ork warrior is not that powerful. In warhammer and warhammer 40k, they swarm in numbers to overwhelm the enemy. Sure they're big and physically powerful, but they lack armor, discipline and stuff.
Hence why I have no issues with orc warriors being core.
True, but that's those settings. Don't we want a bit more originality here? Even so, this setting states that the whole reason for orcs is because they could better fight the demons than the armies of man/elf/dwarf/yadda yadda and the Wizards did it in desperation to make living war machines to bolster their ranks. If they weren't actually better than a human, then why make them in the first place, and instead just send in the criminals as humans to fight? This is why I'd like for the Orcs to be actually "gameplay" powerful instead of "plot/lore" powerful. They aren't living up to the lore as it stands.
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Oliphants could potentially be a great unit, but that role is already covered by Cyclops.
Agreement here. Unless they make the Oliphant have some really cool ability, they could do better.
Quote:
I could really go with lots of different unit options for Orcs aside Harpies. I simply can't stand them.
I don't understand your distaste of Harpies, but at least you don't say that is fact and instead is your opinion. I personally like them as it is a nice fit for a low level flying unit in a faction that has historically never been really had more than one flying unit (which has been the Roc/thunderbird, Harpies(in H4 too) and Wyverns), and the very rare case of 2 (thunder bird AND harpies in H4? Egad!) which seems paradoxical to me as now their whole shtick is "mother earth and father sky". I'd think they'd like to honor Father Sky's namesake a bit more than with just one creature in the skies.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted September 21, 2014 09:26 PM |
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About "not so powerful Orcs". That can be justified by creature growth. If, for example, there are more Sentinels produced than Maulers - than yes, 1 on 1 Orcs are better.
And Orcs (at least plot-wise) are "commando units" vs demons. They're immune to nearly all of their magic and have a high overall magic resistance. They too fight like Demons (which shocked them), with savagery.
Plus, regular human soldiers possess good-quality equipment and high discipline, while Orcs "rush now, think later".
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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EPICUSDOOMICUS
Known Hero
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posted September 22, 2014 08:17 PM |
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[Elite]
Shaman
Centaur
Roc/Thunderbird
[Champion]
Cyclops
Behemoth
Oh no! No more birds please! Except the bloody Phoenix doesn't do it to the final "Flower Sniffers"...ahem... Sylvan lineup. Then Roc definitely.
And of course Behemoth rules for the Orcs, yeah!!
____________
To die in battle is the greatest glory.
To choose to do so is the greatest honor!
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EPICUSDOOMICUS
Known Hero
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posted September 22, 2014 08:20 PM |
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EPICUSDOOMICUS said:
[Elite]
Royin said:
Shaman
Centaur
Roc/Thunderbird
[Champion]
Cyclops
Behemoth
Oh no! No more birds please! Except the bloody Phoenix doesn't do it to the final "Flower Sniffers"...ahem... Sylvan lineup. Then Roc definitely.
And of course Behemoth rules for the Orcs, yeah!!
Royin's lineup
Sorry about that
____________
To die in battle is the greatest glory.
To choose to do so is the greatest honor!
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Kwarc
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 22, 2014 10:36 PM |
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I hope they give something like this:
Core:
- Gnoll (we can live without Goblin, Gnoll are nice creatures and we saw them in DoC)
- Harpy (every army need a flyer)
- Crusher (like in H5 and H6)
Elite:
- Dreamwalker (like in H6)
- Centaur (they were so good in H6)
- Oliphaunt (it fit into desert climate and Goblins can ride them so we will see our little fellow)
Champion:
- Cyclops (standard from Ashan)
- Behemoth (friend I miss so much)
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 01:02 AM |
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Kwarc said:
I hope they give something like this:
Core:
- Gnoll (we can live without Goblin, Gnoll are nice creatures and we saw them in DoC)
- Harpy (every army need a flyer)
- Crusher (like in H5 and H6)
Elite:
- Dreamwalker (like in H6)
- Centaur (they were so good in H6)
- Oliphaunt (it fit into desert climate and Goblins can ride them so we will see our little fellow)
Champion:
- Cyclops (standard from Ashan)
- Behemoth (friend I miss so much)
Problem is that Stronghold can't live without Goblins.
I mean they really need core ranged unit, especially now with the new 3-tiers unit system. So my guess is:
Core:
- Core Gnoll/Core Orc
- Desert Harpy
- Goblin
Elite:
- Dreamwalker
- Centaur
- Elite Orc/Elite Gnoll (depending on what they would chose as core unit)
Champion:
- Cyclops
- Behemoth
I wouldn't put Oliphants in their army because I think that they would be pretty dull(even though they belong to the Orcs), and Goblins definitely can't ride them because Oliphants are huge. In DoC you have Cyclop hero Acamas that is riding an Oliphant.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 09:53 AM |
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That woud be the ultimate stronghold champion, a cyclops riding an oliphant 
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted September 23, 2014 09:54 AM |
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RMZ1989 said:
Problem is that Stronghold can't live without Goblins.
I mean they really need core ranged unit, especially now with the new 3-tiers unit system. So my guess is:
Core:
- Core Gnoll/Core Orc
- Desert Harpy
- Goblin
Elite:
- Dreamwalker
- Centaur
- Elite Orc/Elite Gnoll (depending on what they would chose as core unit)
Champion:
- Cyclops
- Behemoth
RMZ if I uderstood you. if Goblins were chosen. you wuld have a Orc faction with only 1 orc, Two semi orcs. 4 beastman and one Beast?
My purposal (With some DoC art as backup
Core:
- Gnoll/JackalMan As range unit
- Desert Harpy
- Orc Brutes
Elite:
- Shaman
- Centaur
- Elite Orc or Wyvern rider
Champion:
- Cyclops
- Behemoth
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