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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Should Ashan be scraped?
Thread: Should Ashan be scraped? This thread is 42 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 ... 38 39 40 41 42 · «PREV / NEXT»
LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted September 06, 2014 02:21 PM

The story shapes the world

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Rejuvenation process
posted September 06, 2014 02:22 PM

Ashan is not the problem, its creative direction is. I hate when they mess up classic units. Notable examples being..

- Cerberi getting 2 heads.
- Vampires being the evolution of liches with reverse aging.
- Medusae being water-themed renegade naga cultists.
- Cyclopes being failed orc experiments, looking like overgrown, mutated blobs.
- Blue phoenixes.

Ashan is trying so hard to set itself apart from other settings that it makes silly changes nobody asked for. Changes that are more likely to lose than gain favour with the fans.
____________
Restoring the light, facing the dark.

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Raelag84
Raelag84


Famous Hero
posted September 06, 2014 02:25 PM

This is all a moot point. Ashan is not going to be thrown away, and even if it was, we would never go back to the heroes III universe. In fact, any attempt on Uibisoft's part to reference the old heroes universe has fallen flat, if not outright backfired.

I am sorry, but for better or for worse we are stuck with Ashan.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 02:27 PM

LizardWarrior said:
The story shapes the world


ashan as an idea and as a universe is like a bag. it matters what you fill that bag with. they only chose oranges and apples. how is that the bag's fault? is the bag small that can only take 3 kinds of fruits? expand it. is the bag transparent and you want surprises? paint it. it's the writer's fault. you can't blame an idea as a single thing. ideas can be enriched in a million ways, but it depends on the person behind them.
____________

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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted September 06, 2014 02:29 PM
Edited by Galaad at 14:34, 06 Sep 2014.

ChrisD1 said:
it is unfair to ashan as an idea.


No what IMO is unfair, is to go from this :



to this :





when this was what we were supposed to have :



Of course it is all a matter of taste, but with visuals do you see better the argument about generic Warcraft and Warhammer VS original universe ? Visuals are important, they define the world, and the story makes the world alive. As for the poll, I'd recommend it for a QP as it brings up the debate between NWC/UBI transition, which is imo not to neglect.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted September 06, 2014 02:34 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 14:37, 06 Sep 2014.

lol, deleted my post accidentaly

H5 was okay, when lore trumped the gameplay in h6 it was awful. The story was too shallow and the lore was childish. However Danse Macabre and Shades of Darkness were a step forward, if they make a void Necropolis in h7 it would rock!

The bad thing they did in H5 was the race themed factions, that I didn't like. Look at Fortress, 6 dwarves+ a dragon, also sylvan and dungeon to a lower degree, they replaced 2 tiers with women "clothed" in fetish gear.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 06, 2014 02:34 PM

NWC H5 factions looked so freakingly awesome...it's such a shame they didn't had the chance to make into a game
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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 02:35 PM
Edited by ChrisD1 at 14:39, 06 Sep 2014.

Galaad said:


No what IMO is unfair, is to go from this :


Of course it is all a matter of taste, but with visuals do you see better the argument about generic Warcraft and Warhammer VS original universe ? Visuals are important, they define the world, and the story makes the world alive..


did ashan create itself? who designed the creatures?is there only one way to design an elf? a centaur? is there only one way to interpret an idea or a single concept? did the ashan say they elves should look like what they look? exactly? who did the designs? ashan itself?
ashan gave me answers why centaurs exist and do what they do. and to be honest i prefer some of ashan's visuals and some of the previous ones. it's not all black and white. that's being closeminded.
____________

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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted September 06, 2014 02:36 PM
Edited by Galaad at 23:47, 07 Sep 2014.

Elvin said:
I hate when they mess up classic units. Notable examples being..

- Cerberi getting 2 heads.
- Vampires being the evolution of liches with reverse aging.
- Medusae being water-themed renegade naga cultists.
- Cyclopes being failed orc experiments, looking like overgrown, mutated blobs.
- Blue phoenixes.


+1

Storm-Giant said:
NWC H5 factions looked so freakingly awesome...it's such a shame they didn't had the chance to make into a game
You don't say...

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blizz
blizz


Known Hero
of temper grace
posted September 06, 2014 02:39 PM

I don't see how factions from H3 were any less generic than those from H5 and 6.
H3 felt like the designers just came up with as many possible, well known, mythology inspired creatures and banded them together the way it made most sense visually and thematically.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted September 06, 2014 02:42 PM

The fact is that dwarves, elves and orcs are just typical for fantasy games. The nwc theme "band" was less used

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 02:44 PM

LizardWarrior said:
. Look at Fortress, 6 dwarves+ a dragon, also sylvan and dungeon to a lower degree, they replaced 2 tiers with women "clothed" in fetish gear.


ashan compendium said smth about valkyries too. but who didn't include them?
writers they can pretty much DO EVERYTHING THEY WANT with any faction and just ADD stuff. it's called creativity. the base is good. what they do is not that good.
no don't scrape ashan. make it better
____________

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted September 06, 2014 03:00 PM

I'm not very confident in Erwan's writing skills

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted September 06, 2014 03:14 PM

I find this universe way more interesting than the previous ones. And pretty much what Elvin said

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 06, 2014 03:19 PM

Personally I'm more worried on how close-minded are Erwan Ubisoft on the '9 faction limit', how factions are already designed (not a lot of room to add variety to each faction)...
____________


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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted September 06, 2014 03:31 PM
Edited by War-overlord at 15:31, 06 Sep 2014.

ChrisD1 said:
ashan as an idea and as a universe is like a bag. it matters what you fill that bag with. they only chose oranges and apples. how is that the bag's fault? is the bag small that can only take 3 kinds of fruits? expand it. is the bag transparent and you want surprises? paint it. it's the writer's fault. you can't blame an idea as a single thing. ideas can be enriched in a million ways, but it depends on the person behind them.

Storm-Giant said:
Personally I'm more worried on how close-minded are Erwan Ubisoft on the '9 faction limit', how factions are already designed (not a lot of room to add variety to each faction)...

Whereas I greatly agree to most things Chris says, Storm-Giant hits the nail right on the head as far as the bag argument goes. The bag can only expand up to 9. With a maximum to the bag, one has to come up with pretty creative and/or hamfisted ways to write around that maximum. So far, the meter is leaning more towards hamfisted, which is a shame. Much can be solved with better writers, but the maximum can only be resolved with getting a new bag. Which is why I am greatly in favor of using the Comming of the Dark Messiah to pull a HeroesIV and get a new, more flexible bag.
____________
Iron from Ice.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 03:31 PM

LizardWarrior said:
I'm not very confident in Erwan's writing skills

so that's a reason to scrape ashan and make another universe for erwan to write?
____________

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 03:39 PM

War-overlord said:

Whereas I greatly agree to most things Chris says, Storm-Giant hits the nail right on the head as far as the bag argument goes. The bag can only expand up to 9. With a maximum to the bag, one has to come up with pretty creative and/or hamfisted ways to write around that maximum. So far, the meter is leaning more towards hamfisted, which is a shame. Much can be solved with better writers, but the maximum can only be resolved with getting a new bag. Which is why I am greatly in favor of using the Comming of the Dark Messiah to pull a HeroesIV and get a new, more flexible bag.


well can we first wait to see and play a heroes game with ALL faction available? and then maybe it would be time to move on.
but i still believe they can pull anything out of a hat, and give us a new faction just like that.
maybe some watchers that it's time to intervene or some renegades creating a new faction, maybe heretics not acknowledging the dragon gods fueled by another force. the scenarios are endless in my opinion and just because we can't see them right now, it does not mean that the jesus christ of writers can't come along and enrich ashan with a couple more factions.
____________

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Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted September 06, 2014 03:47 PM

blizz said:
H3 felt like the designers just came up with as many possible, well known, mythology inspired creatures and banded them together the way it made most sense visually and thematically.


And this is what I loved about it. It's much more interesting to read about actual mythological creatures, than a plagiarised look-a-like, or something new they came up with.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Too Many Erwin Spoil The Broth
posted September 06, 2014 03:55 PM

LizardWarrior said:
Do you think Ashan should go to the trash can?


Yes

Minion said:
I find this universe way more interesting than the previous ones.


lol

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