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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted April 04, 2015 06:08 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Nuriel was spot on in his defense of Ashan's Necropolis, no one proved him wrong... how much are you willing to bet that Ashan is going to be called 'crap' again with zero support, as if it's some kind of objective fact?
I have stated my reasons many times, do you really want me to repeat them again in every thread? You claim you want to end this discussion, yet you add fuel to the fire, I sincerely don't understand, if you want this topic to end why are you continuing the discussion?
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Nuriel
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 04, 2015 06:20 PM |
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@LizardWarrior
Would you be so kind to recall your arguments against new Necropolis? I haven't heard them before, but I'm really interested in them.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted April 04, 2015 06:23 PM |
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Things are getting interesting ^^
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted April 04, 2015 06:32 PM |
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Nuriel said:
@LizardWarrior
Would you be so kind to recall your arguments against new Necropolis? I haven't heard them before, but I'm really interested in them.
Check this thread, browse through it, not just the first post.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 04, 2015 06:39 PM |
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I expected Lizard Warrior to actually put some effort into it, rather than linking to some thread that doesn't answer Nuriel's points in the slightest... 
That being said, Zombi_Wizard comparing H6 lich to a mummy reminds me that Ancient Mummy didn't win the vote. I'm depressed again. 
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted April 04, 2015 06:54 PM |
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verriker said:
Sligneris said:
The fact that in most cases Ashan fans might feel unwelcome, because of the attitudes around here and being branded as tasteless kinda does not help your case, you know?
I feel alienated from the series because of Erwin's decisions and the world he created, I don't have any problem with the fanbase he somehow developed,
but this is a forum and if you guys come in to argue the toss then I'm free to debate back with my own perspective as long as I respect the CoC and try to avoid ad hominem arguments, it's really that simple from my perspective lol
That's not the forum members fault (who are the ones who have to endure your shiza). It's not even Ubisoft's fault that the franchise that YOU didnt like the turn the franchise took. It's your own for sticking to something you dont like at this point lol.
LizardWarrior said:
GenyaArikado said:
I agree with Kimarous, Sli and W-O. Between the poor forum software, the snowty moderation, Heroes being a niche franchise and the Old!Universe spam from those 3 guys all this forum does is drive away people
Deal with it
To my biggest fan: No.
Quote:
ot a No Homers club where one form of fandom is considered superior to another
holy shiza the hypocrisy
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted April 04, 2015 06:57 PM |
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Sligneris said:
I expected Lizard Warrior to actually put some effort into it, rather than linking to some thread that doesn't answer Nuriel's points in the slightest...
Didn't you want to end this discussion about necropolis?  I gave Nuriel a thread where he can find my opinions without continuing this "useless" topic.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 04, 2015 07:03 PM |
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Exactly, I want to end it, not postpone it until some user decides to bash it for no reason again, which will most likely be tomorrow, or maybe a day later.
That's exactly what I described as a problem, when I said that "things will never change" - people easily forget well-constructed posts and continue to whine, as if everything should be their way while someone already made a well-constructed statement that it might not necessarily be true.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted April 04, 2015 07:06 PM |
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GenyaArikado said:
holy shiza the hypocrisy
no hypocrisy from me, I've never asked for anyone to be banned because of their opinion, unlike some lol
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted April 04, 2015 07:07 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Exactly, I want to end it, not postpone it until some user decides to bash it for no reason again, which will most likely be tomorrow, or maybe a day later.
Dude, you're contradicting yourself. You say you want to end it, yet you encourage people to start engaging in the same discussion 
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Nuriel
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 04, 2015 07:12 PM |
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Edited by Nuriel at 19:14, 04 Apr 2015.
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@LizardWarrior
Most of your arguments are rather relating to art style instead of lore  And we have to agree to disagree. I rather like the new design of units. Well, maybe skeleton upgrade have too many spikes, but overall? I think it's pretty cool. Of course, if I've seen more minimalistic, 3D art style for undead I would be more on yours side.
All in all, that's subjective, but because of that, art direction couldn't really be used as basis of merit argument.
And sorry, H6 and H7 Lamassu are just pure awesomeness
I also want to say that if HoMM 1-4 seems to be much more minimalistic than Ubisoft Heroes, it's probably also because old graphic systems couldn't handle well too many elements on screen
I wouldn't take that as granted, but if NWC would still be making Heroes games, their designs probably would be as much pimped out as Ubisoft.
I also have to ask: if those necro spider design is so much "unoriginal", then in which book, game, movie, comicbook etc. Necromancers were linked with the spiders?
About "overused" spider thing - that is also subjective. I say they were used as much as Erathian Griffins in Castle design.
Also, I couldn't agree that new Necropolis became more about "spider cult thing" than about undead - Asha is just flavour, almost all units are still undead.
And once again - I was hoping to hear more about lore arguments
@Sligneris, Verriker
Thanks for the kind words 
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 04, 2015 07:14 PM |
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verriker said:
GenyaArikado said:
holy shiza the hypocrisy
no hypocrisy from me, I've never asked for anyone to be banned because of their opinion, unlike some lol
This doesn't prevent you from insulting others because of their opinion - I agree with Geny, that statement of yours was highly hypocritical. In one post you preach that "no type of fandom is superior to another", while in the other you comment about Ashan fans having "low standards". This is a pretty clear image for me.
LizardWarrior said:
Dude, you're contradicting yourself. You say you want to end it, yet you encourage people to start engaging in the same discussion
Sorry. I just caught myself once again naively thinking that some people may be convinced, that some people might change their attitude once you explain things to them. I have this since my childhood, it's really annoying.
Nuriel said:
@Sligneris, Verriker
Thanks for the kind words
Nah, no need to thank - you earned it
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted April 04, 2015 07:19 PM |
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@Nuriel: Ok, I will go Sligneris' way and I will post a more comprehensive post later when I have time. Yes, that post was mostly about graphics and design since the thread was related to what we wished in H7 necro, but have you browsed through all thread?
Nuriel said:
I also have to ask: if those necro spider design is so much "unoriginal", then in which book, game, movie, comicbook etc. Necromancers were linked with the spiders?
Warcraft
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 04, 2015 07:22 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Nuriel said:
I also have to ask: if those necro spider design is so much "unoriginal", then in which book, game, movie, comicbook etc. Necromancers were linked with the spiders?
Warcraft
WoW Wiki: Necromancer
WoW Wiki: Lich
Not a word about spiders.
___
Actually, it's really amusing that it's exactly people who complained about Ashan's supposed connection to Warcraft that voted Undead Sorcer, who - surprise, surprise - is the closest of all three designs to be a Warcraft ripoff.
Not to even mention that original universe was officially inspired on Star Trek. You might have heard of it - it's one of the most mainstream science fiction shows of that period.
Hypocrisy is strong in this community.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted April 04, 2015 07:23 PM |
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And before Warcraft: Might and Magic 8
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 04, 2015 07:37 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
@Nuriel: Ok, I will go Sligneris' way and I will post a more comprehensive post later when I have time. Yes, that post was mostly about graphics and design since the thread was related to what we wished in H7 necro, but have you browsed through all thread?
Nuriel said:
I also have to ask: if those necro spider design is so much "unoriginal", then in which book, game, movie, comicbook etc. Necromancers were linked with the spiders?
Warcraft
Well not exactley ... it was M&M: Heroes 6 actualy ... It was idea that was purely spawned in Erwan's head If Warcraft would have such ideas as Ashan it would be underground game that noone would realy play...
Still ... Imo it's a bad idea, so it realy does not matter where it originates lol. I am a fan of stuff that's original, but that does not mean anything original is good by deafult. A ballerina cyclops, that kills enemies with rainbow collor farts is original ... but would you want it in Heroes game? So is spider vomit drinking vampire lol
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Nuriel
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 04, 2015 07:38 PM |
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Edited by Nuriel at 19:39, 04 Apr 2015.
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LizardWarrior said:
@Nuriel: Ok, I will go Sligneris' way and I will post a more comprehensive post later when I have time. Yes, that post was mostly about graphics and design since the thread was related to what we wished in H7 necro, but have you browsed through all thread?
Currently, I don't have that much time, but I will
@Sligneris
I think that LizardWarrior may refer to the Nerubians. But they were just one unit in Warcraft 3 and in fact, spider theme weren't dominant in Undead faction. I'm not sure about World of Warcraft, but glancing through the WoW wiki tells that only 2 of 28 types are arachnid-like. In my book it doesn't count as "link" to the spiders.
@GenyaArikado
Isn't it a good thing? Ripping from MM8 could count as paying homage to the legacy games
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 04, 2015 07:40 PM |
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Nuriel said:
I think that LizardWarrior may refer to the Nerubians. But they were just one unit in Warcraft 3 and in fact, spider theme weren't dominant in Undead faction. I'm not sure about World of Warcraft, but glancing through the WoW wiki tells that only 2 of 28 types are arachnid-like. In my book it doesn't count as "link" to the spiders.
LW made a whole thread about it somewhere around here. I cannot be arsed to look for it. Because other than spiders, there's green and spikes as well.
As far as some people here concerned, of which I am not a part myself, Warcraft is the first, second, third and fourth herald of the apocalyps.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 04, 2015 07:46 PM |
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War-overlord said:
LW made a whole thread about it somewhere around here. I cannot be arsed to look for it. Because other than spiders, there's green and spikes as well.
Spiders in warcraft are not conected to necromancers tho. They were just a neutral race corrupted by undead magic. They are as conected as Lamasu or Bone dragon are in HoMM. In Ashan, spiders MADE necromancers ... that's whole other dimention lol.
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JotunLogi
Known Hero
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posted April 04, 2015 07:48 PM |
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Ashan is coherent and stable, each piece is somewhat connected with the general concept.
Weak dialogues and not deep characters can be a lot better but that is not a result of general conception of Ashan and its world- bad writing, as as been pointed out.
Motives behnd heroes and their actions are not bad, in terms of culture and politics it is absolutely fine, now races and factions are much more developed, some interesting stuff is present. What I really do not like is Asha as main goddes- more mystery would be better. Dragon avatar- I am used to them.
THere should be just less overuse of the motves, overuse of armour and tacky symbols and it should be fine.
Besides- look at HoMM 5 and DoC, they show that Ashan is quite well made and enormous in many areas- not only size and history.
And if it is as bad, what would be better altenative- and here I mean better enough to make effort creating another world, not just factions. Even Tolkien's Universe has flaws, Blizzard and Warhammer are using ton of cliches (be honest, many of us love any of them) and tacky, cheesy and obvious things we have seen 1000k times. The thing is that they put those in a very attractive form.
Flaws of Ashan can be eliminated and make better- especially that therre is plenty of good things. And there are not that many bad thngs- just those are too... visible (like Spideropolis- spiders overuse as hell)
I prefer Ashan to older world- that is also cheese and tacky, largely inspired by other fntasy worlds and no one complains about it. And it has bigger plot holes and illogical things that not manycomplain about- so why Ashan is bashed so much???
p.s. liches as undead sorcereer are at least from 80' (D&D and so)- really nth new in fantasy genre
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This thread is pages long: 
