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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: [Wish] Heroes 4 Remake
Thread: [Wish] Heroes 4 Remake
Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
posted September 08, 2014 08:24 PM

[Wish] Heroes 4 Remake

I'd love a heroes 4 remake with a mix of Heroes 4 and 6 and some features of mine. First, General gameplay similiar to Heroes 4. (Maybe faster turns). Combat Heroes, Caravans, Hero-less armies etc. Some new features I'd like to see are:

-More factions: Fortress(Lizardmen from NWC Heroes 5) and separated Inferno/Necropolis.

-Might and Magic Spell Schools. So each class have school restrictions. Starting classes would be: Cleric(Light,Water,Body,Spirit);Druid(Earth,Water,Air,Spirit); Wizard(Air,Earth,Water,Fire);Shaman(Water,Dark,Earth,Mind); Necromancer(Dark,Mind,Spirit,Body);Heretic(Fire,Dark,Earth,Body); Warlock(Mind,Fire,Water,Air)
Advanced Classes would have 1 or 2 extra schools. And cannot be achieved by learning new skills but by being trained at a special map location called "Hall of Heroes". Of course, Starting Classes have limitations for Advanced Classes. You can't have a Death Knight to a Paladin(Class).

-New Recruitment Mix: Core/Elite/Champion system out of which you choose 3/5 core, 3/4 Elite, 1/3 champion. Elite/Champion can be any troops but cores have a specific pattern: Core 1(Obligatory), Core Ranged A OR Core Ranged B, Core Melee A or Core Melee B.

-Cohesive factions: Towns with a Governor with diplomacy can choose to "merge" with other factions' towns. That means that the town can train 1 core(Basic, Adv), 1 elite(Exp, Mast) and 1 champion(grandmaster) from the other faction's creatures instead of the native creatures. However, Alliances are align-limited. Neutral factions (Lizard and Stronghold) can align with anyone. Good factions(Castle(Not Haven),Preserve,Academy) only with good or neutral and evil factions(Inferno,Asylum,Necropolis) only with evil or neutral factions.

-Customize-able heroes. Heroes can be customized. You can create new heroes with unique appearence, as well as their appearence/equipment changes with new items they wear.

-Heraldry. For Castle only. Each Knight/Cleric has a heraldic banner and haven units(except for Pries->Bishop;Angel->Guardian Angel and Archangel->Seraphim) reflect those colors on their equipment. You can customize new heraldry for your new custom heroes. Neutrals have grey.


Factions in the next post.

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
posted September 08, 2014 08:56 PM
Edited by Lord_Immortal at 19:51, 10 Sep 2014.

Castle:
Hero Classes: Knight and Cleric
Units - Core
Peasant->Maceman
Bowman->Longbowman OR Crossbowman->Arbalest
Swordsman->Esquire(1) OR Pikeman->Halberder

(1) Squires have swords - Flail goes to Paladin.

Units - Elite
Priest->Bishop
    AND/OR
Ballista->Scorpion Ballista
    AND/OR
Crusader->Paladin(unit) (they have hammer->flail)
    AND/OR
Angel->Guardian Angel

Units - Champion
Archangel->Seraphim
    AND/OR
Chevalier->Banneret
    AND/OR
Catapult->Trebuchet


Preserve:
Hero Classes: Ranger and Druid
Units - Core
Gnome->Leprechaun
Satyr->Faun OR Pixie->Sprite
Wood Elf->Grand Elf OR Air Elem->Storm Elem

Units - Elite(2)
(2)-Preserve has a wider Elite Choice thanks to the Elementals. But they're only available to Druid Governors while Tigers,Griffins and Unicorns are available to Ranger Governors.
Dendroid->Dendroid Warden(To all)
    AND/OR
Griffin->Wild Griffin(Rangers)
    AND/OR
Tiger->Battle Tiger(Rangers)
    AND/OR
Unicorn->Rainbow Unicorn(Rangers)
    AND/OR
Water Elem->Ice Elem(Druid)
    AND/OR
Fire Elem->Blazing Elem
    AND/OR
Earth Elem->Mineral Elem

Units - Champion
Firebird->Phoenix
    AND/OR
Faerie Dragon->Eldritch Dragon
    AND/OR
Gargantuan->Fierce Gargantuan



Academy:
Hero Classes: Alchemist and Wizard
Units - Core
Familiar->Mystic Familiar
Halfling->Burglar OR Gremlin->Master Gremlin
Clay Golem->Stone Golem OR Iron Golem->Steel Golem

Units - Elite
(I Forgot)->(I forgot)
    AND/OR
Genie->Master Genie
    AND/OR
Apprentice->Magi
    AND/OR
Roc->Great Roc

Units - Champion
Giant->Titan
    AND/OR
Naga->Naga Queen
    AND/OR
Lamasu->Lamasu Empress(Living Lamasu)



Necropolis:
Hero Classes: Death Knight and Necromancer
Units - Core
Ghost->Specter
Skeleton Javelinman->Skeleton Archer OR Mummy->Mummy Hexer
Walking Dead->Zombie OR Ghoul->Fell Ghoul

Units - Elite
Vampire->Vampire Lord
    AND/OR
Stone Gargoyle->Granite Gargoyle
    AND/OR
Lich->Power Lich
    AND/OR
Wight->Wraith(Reapers)

Units - Champion
Bone Dragon->Ghost Dragon
    AND/OR
Black Knight->Dread Knight
    AND/OR
Evil Sorceress->Shadow Mistress


Inferno:
Hero Classes: Demoniac and Heretic
Units - Core
Imp->Greater Imp
Gog->Magog OR Succubus->Succubus Mistress
Hellhound->Orthus->Cerberus(3) OR Demon->Horned Demon(H3 one)
(3)This and Asylum dragons have 3 upgrades

Units - Elite
Efreet->Efreet Sultan
    AND/OR
Kreegan Warrior(MM6)->Kreegan Captain(winged MM6 one)
    AND/OR
Hellsteed->Nightmare
    AND/OR
Frost Fiend->Ice Demon

Units - Champion
Devil->Archdevil(
    AND/OR
Abyssal->Greater Abyssal(like this)
    AND/OR
Deepwyrm->Magma Wyrm


Asylum:
Hero Classes: Overlord and Warlock
Units - Core
Rogue->Bandit
Goblin->Hobgoblin OR Troglodyte->Deep Troglodyte
Orc->Orc Chieftain OR Pirate->Captain

Units - Elite
Minotaur->Minotaur Warlord
    AND/OR
Mermaid->Siren
    AND/OR
Dragonbreed->Mighty Dragonbreed(like AoW2 Draconian Flyers)
    AND/OR
Troll->War Troll

Units - Champion
Green Dragon->Red Dragon->Black Dragon
    AND/OR
Kraken->Mighty Kraken(moves by burrowing and spawns with a water pool
    AND/OR
Manticore->Chimera


Fortress:
Hero Classes: Beastmaster and Witch
Units - Core
Gnoll Raider->Gnoll Marksman
Lizard Archer->Viper OR Lizard Shaman->Lizard Mage
Serpent Fly->Dragonfly OR Giant Spider->Black Spider

Units - Elite
Medusa->Medusa Empress
    AND/OR
Gorgon->Brazen Gorgon(H3 gorgons)
    AND/OR
Wyvern->Wyvern Monarch
    AND/OR
Ooze->Venom Spawn

Units - Champion
Cetus->Leviathan
    AND/OR
Basilisk->Greater Basilisk
    AND/OR
Scylla->Hydra


Stronghold:
Hero Classes: Barbarian or Runecrafter
Units - Core
Berserker->Wulfheadnar
Wolf->Fenris OR Dwarf->Battle-Dwarf
Centaur->Centaur Captain OR Harpy->Harpy Hag(Not ranged but fly and return through the whole battlefield)

Units - Elite
Ogre->Ogre Brawler
    AND/OR
Stormcrow->Thuderbird
    AND/OR
Nomad->Nomad Cieftain
    AND/OR
Rune Priest->Rune Master(The only "magician" unit in the Stronghold)

Units - Champion
Cyclops->Cyclops King
    AND/OR
Valkyrie->Valkyrie Demigodess
    AND/OR
Behemoth->Mighty Behemoth

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Jiriki9
Jiriki9


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
posted September 09, 2014 12:20 PM

Well, your proposals has ups and downs. First, you name it as a mix of H6 (which I liked so bad I never ever played it) and H4 (which I liekd but which was ever very unHoMMish). Not the best starting point in my eyes. But I'll g on to the details

Quote:
Might and Magic Spell Schools

Please explain it more. Which spell schools exactly wouldyou like (named seperate from classes first) and which spells would be in which school? For a specific thing, what is the difference between spirit and mind?

Quote:
Advanced Classes would have 1 or 2 extra schools. And cannot be achieved by learning new skills but by being trained at a special map location called "Hall of Heroes".

I'm not sure what you mean here? THe schools? The skills? the Classes?

I think I like your recruitment system. A bit strict on which cores are there, maybe. And I'd still like alternate upgrades, though.

Quote:
Cohesive factions

I like these in general However: WHICH units, especially of Core, are replaced? And WHICH units of the other faction can be recruited?

Quote:
Customize-able heroes. Heroes can be customized. You can create new heroes with unique appearence, as well as their appearence/equipment changes with new items they wear.



Quote:
Heraldry. For Castle only. Each Knight/Cleric has a heraldic banner and haven units(except for Pries->Bishop;Angel->Guardian Angel and Archangel->Seraphim) reflect those colors on their equipment. You can customize new heraldry for your new custom heroes. Neutrals have grey

A bit sad that is only for Haven^^ I understand your point but I think than other factions should have similar things, like Runes for Stronghold, "Ornaments" for Fortress, etc.

On to the factions now.

Castle
"Peasant->Maceman" seems strange upgrade to me.
The ranged seem lgical, though a bit boring. I think the bowman could be fire archer to distinguish it more from crossbowman.
Quote:
Squires have swords

So no change from H5
Quote:
Ballista->Scorpion Ballista

I certainly like war machines as seperate unit class better.
Paladin having a hammer is a bit Warcraft, but okay.
2 Angel units is not that interesting imo and Archangel as UNUPGRADED unit is a no go for me.

Preserve
I think overall this town has a nice lineup. Distinguish between druid and ranger seems logical. On the other hand they could need a spice-up, seem a bit linear. And I don'tlike the air elemental, and it only, being Core. Some upgraded names could definitely be better in my eyes as well. And finally, I never were a Gargantuan fan. But as ai said, on the whole, the lineup is solid.

Academy
What exactly is a familiar in this case (how does it look like what can it do?).
Quote:
Clay Golem->Stone Golem OR Iron Golem->Steel Golem

Nw that could be FAR more interesting here, imo. If you want 2 golems here,  badly, make a greater difference, for example you could make a Sand>Quicksand GOlem with physical resistance or a Glass>Crystal Golem as anti-magic or a Paper golem (sharp and wuick, but burnable as hell), a Wax Golem(physical resistance, fire weakness), or soemthing like that. Or just swap one golem with another unit, for example some animated/living armour or Weapons.
Quote:
Priest->Bishop

I think that dont belong here.
...Apprentice as Elite`?^^ Better Magi and some Magi upgrade.
naga as champion....I don't know. Would rather see a dragon golem here.
And why lamasu not sphinx?

Necropolis:
Quote:
Hero Classes: Alchemist and Wizard

I suspect Death Knight and Necromancer?
The cre untis are more or less fine, though I never fully liked skeleton archers. Also, I'd suggest changing "javelinman" to javeliner. And of course, I would switch tires of Mummy and Gargoyle.
The ELite is fine as well. To me, gargoyles are still weaker than mummies, but it IS intriguing here.
The Evil sorceress is not the most interesting unit to me, but else, the Champions are fine as well, so...a clearly very nice lineup, imo.

Inferno
Greater Imp is a bit boring a name. Elsewise, the cores are solid, though I personally woudl love to see a demon worshipper somewhere here, instead of the demon, maybe, or of the succubus.
The Ice demon is a bit oppository as to the typical fire inferno, but if yours is less firy, it may fit quite well.
The rest of the lineup is surely ok for me, though not outstanding.

Asylum
Core are very solid, not outstanding again. Having priates and trogs in army seems a bit out of place to me, but not too bad.
About Mermaid I'm not sure in comparison to the others.
I love the dragonbreed in, I think!
Is the Troll the H1/2 stone-thrower or the H3/4 club-swinger?
Champions are not bad. I somehow like the return of 3-upgrade dragon, the kraken is surely interesting, though difficult in terms of logic and ambience, and the manticore, well, is solid fitting.
To me, the gretest problem with your asylum is certainly the cmbination of undergroundish dungeon with sea units, which does just not fit imo. They should better be replaced, maybe with more gloomy/darkness units: some shadow beings, maybe even a (singular!) dark elf unit, faceless...

Fortress
Love to see it return!
The cores are fine, except I donÄt knwo why the Archer upgrades to a snake?^^
The Elites are fine, the venom spawn fits aeons better in here than in necroferno.
Catoblepas sounds a bit stupid as name, in my ears.
Cetus rename to "Leviathan" to make it sound more championish?
Basilisk in H3 fashion?

Stronghold
Now, one majr prob beforehand: Dwarves and ORcs mixing????? Hard hard HARD to take. harder than the H1-3 elf-dwarf-alliance.
Once one just tolerates, though, the whole lineup is very nice, not even really a comment, here.
But still...dwarrves with stronghold is somehow hard to imagine for me.

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
posted September 10, 2014 07:47 PM

By Schools I meant extra spell schools.

As for cohesive factions, any of the core.

Having 2 angel units does not mean boring. I was thinking of Angels/Guardian Angels more like floating, light beings(like Radiant Glories) while Archangels->Seraphs like the classical winged beings. Archangel unupgraded? I was thinking the same. Better Seraph->Arch-Angel.

Peasants->Macemen. Ok. Peasant->Conscript(Name is same as H5 but has a mace)

Now for the Haven Core and the Golems. The difference between the two is in the function.

Pikemen VS Swordsmen:
Pikemen have higher defense than Swordsmen, lower attack&damage but two special skills: Polearm-deal randomly 30%-70% more damage to 2x2 units) AND Spearwall-Units who attack Pikemen suffer 50% damage the Pikemen Stack deals. Halberders have Polearm and Unlimited Retaliations.

Swordsmen have higher offense and Esquires attack twice. P.S. They look like Heroes 3 ones, only with swords.

Bowmen vs Crossbowmen:
Bowmen have lower damage but attack more frequently(2 times a turn, at the start and the end of the turn). Longbowmen shoot twice every shot.Both Bowmen and Longbowmen can use Scatter Shot like Heroes 5.
Crossbowmen have higher standard damage, deal double damage to troops in less than 20% of total distance close to them but deal half damage to troops who are very far.

Clay/Stone vs Iron/Steel Golems
It's all about the resistence and the attack/defense orientation. Clay and stone golems are weaker to Air/Water spells and are defensive oriented units. Iron/Steel Golems are weaker to Fire/Earth Spells and offensive oriented units.

Sorry about the Priest->Bishop. I intended something that I've forgotten And yes you're right for the necropolis classes.

Asylum:
I thought of Troglodytes as amphibian units. That's why I've put them in Asylum. As for trolls, I think ranged. Asylum lacks a ranged Elite. As for the Dungeon/Water theme mix, I think a nice backround similiar to this would make it look cool.

Fortress:
Leviathan yes, it's better. And basilisks I'd say more like AoW 2 Basilisks

Stronghold:
Orcs AND Dwarves ARE strange. I wanted stronghold a Viking-Styled faction.

Final words: I will have Orcs to asylum and Harpies as Orc alternatives(Harpies are not ranged but they can fly the whole battlefield and return back so it's almost the same), Stormcrow->Thunderbird to Elite and Valkyries to Champion.

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Jiriki9
Jiriki9


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
posted September 12, 2014 11:02 AM

Quote:
By Schools I meant extra spell schools.

So much I understood^^ To repeat my further questions on that: Which spell schools exactly wouldyou like (named seperate from classes first) and which spells would be in which school? For a specific thing, what is the difference between spirit and mind?

Quote:
As for cohesive factions, any of the core.

SO I can choose? giving an example how I understand it now: I am playing Academy and wish to merge my town with Fortress, and then I just say, well, I want more shooters, so OFF with you, familiar, I rather take a lizard archer in? Or can you replace only with the same position, so I would replace Familiar with Gnoll Raider?

Quote:
Having 2 angel units does not mean boring. I was thinking of Angels/Guardian Angels more like floating, light beings(like Radiant Glories) while Archangels->Seraphs like the classical winged beings. Archangel unupgraded? I was thinking the same. Better Seraph->Arch-Angel.

Ah, yes, then it is fine. I had both as the winged humanoids in mind. And Seraph > Archangel I find much better, as well.

Peasant>Conscript is MUCH better imo!

For the Sowrd- and Pikeman, I have no problems there. HoMM always had both and I think bringing them into one tier makes sense =)

Bowman and Crossbowman are still close. I think the prblem (in my eyes only, of course) is that the Wood Elves are probably not SO far from the bowmans either. BUt it is your proposal and its not such a big deal!

For the Golems...iI still feel tehm quite close and also hard to believe Clay or stone shoudl resist mroe than Iron or steel^^

Quote:
I intended something that I've forgotten

No problem, I know such! I hope you don't mind me giving suggestions, then...
I think your Academy needs an Elite tank unit, still (as Rocs are probably more offensive and I suspect Magi and and Genie are not tanks, either. Proposals here are:
-Dragon Golem: a bit more bulky than in H4, then, but of course only Elite here. There are a few other constructs or animated units you could use here, but I see it difficult: Stronger other Golems (like strongs of those I mentioned before. Problem: Maaany ordinary golems), Sphinx (as statue, but it would still be in conflict with the lamasu) or Animated Weapon (would need to be quite awesome to be elite.)
-Rakshasa (I suggest it out of fairness. I personally HATE rakshasas!!!!): just H5 style probably^^
-some Enduring magcal spirit (but that might get problems with being close to genie...)
-War Elephant: A might unit of course, but might fit Academy.
Or, you could make that unit dependant on what hero governs the town...

Quote:
I thought of Troglodytes as amphibian units.

Ah, I never do...

Quote:
As for trolls, I think ranged.

Great

Hmmm, water-dungeon might look cool, bjut I still find it hard to believe, but as said before, its your proposal

Quote:
Leviathan yes, it's better. And basilisks I'd say more like AoW 2 Basilisks



Quote:
Orcs AND Dwarves ARE strange. I wanted stronghold a Viking-Styled faction.

Yes, I saw that but it still IS somehow hard to get in my eyes. Though an MIGHT get used to it. It certainly is not as bad as infernopolis was, I think In fact, I  am jsut thinking on revisioning an old proposal by me, in which probabyl the orc and the dwarf towns will have a good relationship (because they share part of their alignments).

Quote:
I will have Orcs to asylum and Harpies as Orc alternatives(Harpies are not ranged but they can fly the whole battlefield and return back so it's almost the same), Stormcrow->Thunderbird to Elite and Valkyries to Champion

sounds good.
I would really like to get more details on your proposal, I think! =)

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