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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted September 18, 2014 03:24 PM |
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Edited by fuChris at 15:31, 18 Sep 2014.
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Who said that Fury need tanks other than Treant/Dragon?
Cores are a little more fragile perhaps but on the other hand the archer/no retaliation flyer was an OP combo in H3 Conflux(sprite/storm elemental) allowing you to take a multitude of battles early on that would have been out of your reach till much later.
And the dryad looks like it could easily slow down enemy units on the crowded battlefield by summoning a plant-wall or bee-hive in the way of enemies.
I mean what else is a dryad supposed to support with if not summoning?
Healing? HELL NAW!
Blessing? What for? Elves probably get light magic.
Curses. Pfff.. yeah right...
As for elites I can easily imagine the deer haveing a similar blinding/disabling skill like the H4 nightmare. That leaves the blade dancer free to cause havoc while the druid does its thing.
And for everything else there is the Hero.
You see? No need for tanks.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 18, 2014 03:24 PM |
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VOKIALBG said:
I just hope that all who voted ST. will switch to Balance in the last day, so we can kick out this Fury!
I intend to, if the need arises.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted September 18, 2014 03:26 PM |
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Why would I change my vote?
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 18, 2014 03:30 PM |
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OmegaDestroyer said:
Why would I change my vote?
To do your part to ensure that the worst line-up doesn't win when your original choice stands no chance of winning.
Which line-up is the worst, depends on you.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted September 18, 2014 03:43 PM |
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War-overlord said:
VOKIALBG said:
I just hope that all who voted ST. will switch to Balance in the last day, so we can kick out this Fury!
I intend to, if the need arises.
Why? Strength and fury are virtually identical.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 18, 2014 03:43 PM |
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Stevie said:
Storm-Giant said:
And people saying that Phoenix are full tanks are so delusional 
"Full" Tanks?
I said they're Tanks and I bring their description as an argument: flying and hard-to-kill creature with self-resurrection ability and supporting abilities
Hard-to-kill, no matter how you look at it, is resilience. That doesn't necessary mean that it has great defense or lots of HP. But in essence, being hard to kill is a DEFENSIVE attribute.
Self-resurrection is nothing more and nothing less that Extra Life. That basically translates into another round of HP for the enemy to kill again. It's DEFENSIVE because it works for maintaining the creature alive AND it activates by being killed.
Furthermore, if it has a Fire Shield, or Moonfire Aura, that's another DEFENSIVE skill. Because it activates when being hit.
So how am I delusional again? Even the format supports my theory.
_________________________________________
|__________|___Tank___|___Damage Dealer___|
|_Strength_|__Treant__|______Dragon_______|
|_Balance__|_Phoenix__|______Dragon_______|
|_Fury_____|__Treant__|______Dragon_______|
That table is an gross simplification. Putting Treants and Phoenix on the same can is unfair.
IMO the champions look like this:
Treant: Pure tank. Walker, roots enemies and get healed by Dryads.
Phoenix: Balance between tank and Damage dealer. Self-resurrection grants them some extra tankyness (remember that all Champions are somewaht tanky by default), but flyer + supporting abilities gives them manoeuvrability and enough damage to be a force to be reckoned on its own. The most versatile champion there.
Dragon: Walker and average move range makes them very predictable and direct. Their advantage is they deal massive damage. Hero abilities could help him to make more interesting.
Treants sound just boring
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adriancat
Famous Hero
Protector Of The Peace
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posted September 18, 2014 03:45 PM |
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Why this nostalgia everybody ? Why don't get Sylvan a chance to be different just once ? Why all this bullsnow with Balance and Phoenixes (Blue ones) ? Think this way : Sylanna's Fury is not fragile, but it's more replayable by combat strategy, because :
- You have 2 archers, Treant and Dryad, which could make a great defensive faction;
-Then you have Blade Dancers, Pixie, Sun Deer and Emerald Dragon which could make a great offensive faction.
It's only at your choice how to play them. I really don't understand why this Phoenix propaganda : "Oh, Phoenixes are back, oh, my dear firebirds" , "Oh, my dear Heroes 2 Sorceress", "Oh, they would look great" , Phoenix here, Phoenix everywhere.
Every old player, please understand that the Phoenixes will be BLUE, so bye-bye Heroes 2 nostalgia. Plus, that bullsnow of Snake is like out-of-place, it's like Heroes 4 Necro with Imps and Cerberi.
I wish you all to see what is obvious : that Sylanna's Fury can be offensive and defensive too. It's not like some people here said, low HP and only on rushing. 
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 18, 2014 03:45 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 15:52, 18 Sep 2014.
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adriancat said:
Think this way : Sylanna's Fury is not fragile, but it's more replayable by combat strategy, because :
- You have 2 archers, Treant and Dryad, which could make a great defensive faction;
-Then you have Blade Dancers, Pixie, Sun Deer and Emerald Dragon which could make a great offensive faction.
- Arguing Fury can be a great defensive faction is, with all due respect, blinded POV. Fury is obviously the offensive choice.
- As I said how do you expect the faction not to be OP if such high damage dealers are tanks too ? And Pixie offensive ? lol
Raelag84 said:
Why? Strength and fury are virtually identical.
What ?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 18, 2014 03:47 PM |
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@Galaad
You're confusing Synergy with Dependency. Do you think that if Dryads can heal Treants that's all they can do? I don't think we can have a fruitful debate about Sylvan when you think that Synergy and faction uniqueness are bad. So I appreciate your opinion but I can't stand behind it.
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 18, 2014 03:50 PM |
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Edited by jhb at 15:54, 18 Sep 2014.
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Guys, do you really think Snake/Python are ok in Sylvan? If wasn't for this root snake, Strength could be an option, imo.
But seriously, snakes and lizards would fit better among the dark elves, the same way as bats and spiders fit better with necros. Phoenixes are neutrals. This was decisive for my vote. I also see a better synergy potential with the Fury line.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 18, 2014 03:56 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 16:00, 18 Sep 2014.
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jhb said:
Guys, do you really think Snake/Python are ok in Sylvan? If wasn't for this root snake, Strength could be an option, imo.
But seriously, snakes and lizards would fit better among the dark elves, the same way as bats and spiders fit better with necros. Phoenixes are neutrals. This was decisive for my vote.
Besides reptiles in Dungeon we have now a full reptilian faction named Sanctuary, the Nagas. A malicious snake looking like a branch withing such a dignified race as the Elves is simply nonsense.
As about the Phoenix, I already made a case about it's appearance in the Ashan universe:
Stevie said:
ELVEN PHOENIX IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH ASHAN LORE!
Heroes 5 - fiery phoenix as a summoning magic and neutral unit;
Heroes 6 - phoenix as neutral;
Duel of Champions - phoenix as neutral again.
MMX Legacy - phoenix as a Summoning spell from Shantiri discs; The part about Shantiri is extremely important because it's continuity is basically Academy. And that leads us to..
Clash of Heroes - where phoenix is part of Academy!
So as you can see the Phoenix was neutral and Shantiri/Academy oriented. It's allegiance with Sylvan and it's disappearance from the Line-up by the time of Heroes V has yet to be explained, if ever.
Storm-Giant said:
Treant: Pure tank. Walker, roots enemies and get healed by Dryads.
Phoenix: Balance between tank and Damage dealer. Self-resurrection grants them some extra tankyness (remember that all Champions are somewaht tanky by default), but flyer + supporting abilities gives them manoeuvrability and enough damage to be a force to be reckoned on its own. The most versatile champion there.
You really think the Treant will be a pure tank? A champion?! The synergy of the Treant is much better than the Phoenix's one which is focused one itself alone! And I don't find the Treant's presence as arguable as the Phoenix's in Sylvan.
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted September 18, 2014 03:57 PM |
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Right, because poison is solely exclusive to Dungeon, NOT. God forbid we ever get something new, why let's just use all units from h5 and just redesign them.
No unicorn in Sylvan? My god, the blashphemy. Nothing can ever replace a white horse with a horn -.-
Snakes and deers? Good god, they are so totally not animals that live in FORESTS.
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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adriancat
Famous Hero
Protector Of The Peace
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posted September 18, 2014 03:58 PM |
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Galaad said:
adriancat said:
Think this way : Sylanna's Fury is not fragile, but it's more replayable by combat strategy, because :
- You have 2 archers, Treant and Dryad, which could make a great defensive faction;
-Then you have Blade Dancers, Pixie, Sun Deer and Emerald Dragon which could make a great offensive faction.
- Arguing Fury can be a great defensive faction is, with all due respect, blinded POV. Fury is obviously the offensive choice.
- As I said how do you expect the faction not to be OP if such high damage dealers are tanks too ? And Pixie offensive ? lol
Raelag84 said:
Why? Strength and fury are virtually identical.
What ?
You said that you could play a Beastmaster in heroes 3 with high spellpower and you say that you could not play Fury defensive ? What
You just said that "Fury is obviously offensive" and just that. I said that Dryad-Treant combo, combined with 2 archers shooting from behind could make a great defensive alternative. And if you read Fury's description on the site, you'd found that it said just that in the end part. 
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 18, 2014 04:01 PM |
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jhb said:
Guys, do you really think Snake/Python are ok in Sylvan? If wasn't for this root snake, Strength could be an option, imo.
It's true that serpents could make more sense on Sanctuary or a Lizard H3 style Fortress, but imo Root Snakes are OK in Sylvan. Snakes are just another animal of the forest, and that sounds like Sylvan to me. Add the tree root look and I can see it as part of Sylvan.
Probably there are more interesting options, but I don't think they are totally off.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 18, 2014 04:05 PM |
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Galaad said:
Raelag84 said:
Why? Strength and fury are virtually identical.
What ?
What indeed. 5 out of 8 creature are identical.
Both have Hunters, Druids, Treants and Dragons. But then again all options have these.
Strength has Unicorns, Dryads, Emerald Warriors and Rootsnakes.
Balance has Phoenixes, Pixies, Emerald Warriors and Rootsnakes.
Fury has Deer, Bladedancers, Dryads and Pixies.
As I have often stated I consider Sylvan without Unicorns to be Heresy and an Abomination unto the God-Emperor. Which is why I voted Strength.
Strenght seems to be loosing atm, which saddens me greatly.
I never had problems with the Phoenix. So my vote was never one against Phoenixes.
I consider Root Snakes more interesting than either Dryads or Pixies, so I'd prefer a Core with Snakes.
Having both Pixies & Dryads in Core will put the counter of Plant-people in Sylvan up to 3, as I count Treans as plant-people as well. That is too many plant-people for my liking.
I never liked Bladedancers.
Opposing them to Emeral Warriors, which at the very least look more appealing. Further more, in our discussion of them on this forum, Marzhin said he'd see if they could be mounted on something. Which gives me slight hope of a possibility of the Unicorn being in anyway or getting a cavalry unit. And I'm a bit of a sucker for cavalry.
From what I can tell of the descriptions of the deer, they have very shiny antlers. And some boring sun-&-moon lore. I'm a big lore-nerd, so you're doing something bad if you bore me.
So all in all, for me, Fury is the worst possible option. If I cannot have Strength, I'll see what I can do to prevent Fury.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 18, 2014 04:08 PM |
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Edited by jhb at 16:09, 18 Sep 2014.
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Stevie said:
jhb said:
Guys, do you really think Snake/Python are ok in Sylvan? If wasn't for this root snake, Strength could be an option, imo.
But seriously, snakes and lizards would fit better among the dark elves, the same way as bats and spiders fit better with necros. Phoenixes are neutrals. This was decisive for my vote.
Besides reptiles in Dungeon we have now a full reptilian faction named Sanctuary, the Nagas. A malicious snake looking like a branch withing such a dignified race as the Elves is simply nonsense.
As about the Phoenix, I already made a case about it's appearance in the Ashan universe:
Stevie said:
ELVEN PHOENIX IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH ASHAN LORE!
Heroes 5 - fiery phoenix as a summoning magic and neutral unit;
Heroes 6 - phoenix as neutral;
Duel of Champions - phoenix as neutral again.
MMX Legacy - phoenix as a Summoning spell from Shantiri discs; The part about Shantiri is extremely important because it's continuity is basically Academy. And that leads us to..
Clash of Heroes - where phoenix is part of Academy!
Agree.
Stormcaller said:
Right, because poison is solely exclusive to Dungeon, NOT. God forbid we ever get something new, why let's just use all units from h5 and just redesign them.
No unicorn in Sylvan? My god, the blashphemy. Nothing can ever replace a white horse with a horn -.-
Snakes and deers? Good god, they are so totally not animals that live in FORESTS.
Well, alligators also are animals that live in forests... monkeys too... let's add monkey as a Ranged unit! =P You know what they like to throw on people.
The thing is, it's not JUST because they are animals, but there is a symbolism behind them that keeps the faction identity.
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted September 18, 2014 04:09 PM |
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Quote:
As I have often stated I consider Sylvan without Unicorns to be Heresy and an Abomination unto the God-Emperor. Which is why I voted Strength.
If you were a true devotee of God Emperor of Mankind, you wouldn't care about this eldar... ahem, elf filth 
But honestly, people argue too much on line-ups. I didn't even get my race ( dwarves ) and is still questionable if I'll get my second fav race- demons.
All I have left is Orcs
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 18, 2014 04:13 PM |
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Stormcaller said:
If you were a true devotee of God Emperor of Mankind, you wouldn't care about this eldar... ahem, elf filth
I am a Gue'Vesa. Worship of the God-Emperor and striving for the Greater Good are not mutually exclusive.(Just that we don't have a proper Tau-equivalent on Ashan)
If the Greater Good demands I change my vote to ensure the worst line-up loses, then so be it.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 18, 2014 04:17 PM |
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Stormcaller said:
Quote:
As I have often stated I consider Sylvan without Unicorns to be Heresy and an Abomination unto the God-Emperor. Which is why I voted Strength.
If you were a true devotee of God Emperor of Mankind, you wouldn't care about this eldar... ahem, elf filth
But honestly, people argue too much on line-ups. I didn't even get my race ( dwarves ) and is still questionable if I'll get my second fav race- demons.
All I have left is Orcs
Is this official that Dwarves won't come in the future? =S
I was thinking they would be just delayed.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 18, 2014 04:18 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 23:42, 19 Sep 2014.
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Stevie said:
You're confusing Synergy with Dependency. Do you think that if Dryads can heal Treants that's all they can do? I don't think we can have a fruitful debate about Sylvan when you think that Synergy and faction uniqueness are bad.
I believe synergy must be part of every faction but morevoer is not the main factor that makes one's uniqueness. On a larger scale, mixing troops factor comes to mind too.
I probably wasn't clear enough, but forcing it with including such high dependency ties them together in a too much unidirectional way, being able to play factions differently depending on the game benefits replayability shall I say it again.
You ask me if Dryad is all they can do apart from healing the Champion. Right, maybe they'll cast Lightning bolt too. I'm pretty they'll get low damage and HP.
Stevie said:
So I appreciate your opinion but I can't stand behind it.
Fundamentally my opinion is that Fury is, at least creature-wise, the most distant to the true franchise's spirit among the three proposed alternatives.
adriancat said:
You said that you could play a Beastmaster in heroes 3 with high spellpower and you say that you could not play Fury defensive ? What
Totally irrelevant.
War-overlord said:
I consider Root Snakes more interesting than either Dryads or Pixies, so I'd prefer a Core with Snakes.
+1
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This thread is pages long: 
