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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 05:32 AM |
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Raelag84 said:
This is something that I really need to get off my chest.
Do people really think that fury and strength are really different?
I would be happy with ether one, and I am not just saying that as propaganda. I genuinely feel that way.
I tried to say something about this, but people didn't listen.
Strength and Fury are more alike than I first thought, and a lot of it is due to a few things.
They both share Dryad, Treant as Champs, and all the other "shared" units all line ups have. The differences lie in three units.
Root Snake ~~ Pixie
Unicorn ~~ Deer
Emerald Warrior ~~ Blade Dancer
With the core, they are pretty close, but with a few key differences. Root Snake is a walker (unless it "burrows" and sort of teleports to move, but i am pretty sure it is a walker) and Pixie is a flyer. In addition, the Root Snake entangles and Pixie has no retaliation. They both serve as fast attack units, but depending on how entanglement works, they share a very similar role. If entanglement works as long as the attacker stays in position, then the Pixie has an advantage. However, it appears that the Druid also entangles, and if anything, shooters are not adjacent to their victim, so it could be theorized that entanglement doesn't need to have adjacency.
However, the Emerald Warrior has strike and return, which is basically what the Pixie would do anyways, only instead, it moves out of the way. Which means that unit isn't in the fight, where the Pixie, after it attacks, is front and center. It does the Pixies job, but even better.
However, so will the Root Snake. But if the Root Snake can entangle and then move away, then it serves a relatively equal chance of getting hit as the Pixie does, as they'd both hit, then get hit (just a turn later for the Pixie). The Root Snake can then go on to do something else. The Pixie can keep fighting.
The Blade Dancer is your whirlwind striker, but it, too, is amid the battle once you get in deep. Although it could retaliate against multiple units, it most likely would not have unlimited retaliation, and thus will become a prime target for your enemy. The Emerald Warrior has no such problem with strike and return, although it doesn't get as offensive.
So, with one, you have a 2 units that will be in the thick of it (which will do more damage than the enemy, it is true) or you have units that avoid the fight altogether/keep enemies stuck so they can't actually go anywhere
And finally, the Deer and Unicorn. These two, to me, seem pretty similar. We have an idea of what the Unicorn would do, that is, have a magical defense aura, and probably have a blind attack. The Deer is listed as "support", which the Unicorn is also. There is no true mention of what this support is, but it does say it has a "soothing aura", which could mean it removes debuffs/straight up buffs nearby allies, or has an attack like the Sisters/Vestals did, via pacification. Once used, it might stop an enemy from acting until it is attacked or it wears off. What's that sound like? Oh yeah, the blind spell. And the unicorn also has an aura, as a defensive buff. They honestly don't sound much different to me at all. Until clarification is made, they seem pretty much like the exact same unit, but with a different skin. Perhaps I am wrong, and the Deer has support abilities vastly different than described here. But I have yet to see anything, and going off the pittance of info, I believe that they are almost equal in form. To me, they are a non-issue.
Along with 2 shooter units, they still both have the uber defensive idea of a Dryad/Treant combo, as well as the Dragon as a damage dealer, serving as a defensive or a offensive tactic depending on if you want defensive elves or offensive elves.
Yes, the Blade Dancer and Pixie are a bit more offensive than the Root Snake and Emerald Warrior, but that isn't to say that those units aren't offensive either. The two line ups are super similar to each other, to me.
Do you want an early entangler and a strike, no retaliation, and return unit, OR a all-around-attack unit, and a unit with strike and no retaliation, but not return.? That's basically all I see as the difference.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 07:07 AM |
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Galaad.
As far as I see things, you're the only one causing friction. I am reading all your comments on the voting site and on the Heroes Community boards and I don't like what I see. There has been a steady rising of Strength votes coming from Balance to the point it's now 27%, and you applauded that. Yet when 1% percent transferred from Balance to Fury, you proceeded with accusations of cheating again.
I'm telling you this, I know you are emotional and that these days are stressful. Maybe you're trying to blow off steam. But try to understand that the rest of the voters are in the same situation. And claims of cheating aren't helping at all here. There's a ton of paranoia already, we don't need more.
So I will ask you kindly and respectfully: please stop stirring things up with such accusations.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 07:45 AM |
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Edited by ChrisD1 at 08:32, 23 Sep 2014.
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Well well... 
We are at 42% percent now!woooohoooo! I was mentally prepared for sister strength to win but now I can really hope for deers to hop them obstacles in battle!
@Protolisk
When i pointed out that fury and strength are super similar no one listened to me 
____________
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted September 23, 2014 08:27 AM |
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Edited by yogi at 08:28, 23 Sep 2014.
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jhb said:
I think the devs should hide the %, so people could vote FOR WHAT THEY LIKE, not vote to destroy what other people liked.
That way, maybe we could have more arguments, more debate, and less flaming, less arrogance.
i agree.
AcidDragon said:
"Elven Cavalry is mostly light cavalry, again designed for speed and maneuverability over shock power. Only the elite Unicorn Riders - the closest the Elves come to the knights of the Holy Empire - will use large shields and lances to drive their point home."
Is it a concidence that Emerald Knights have large shields, lances and are called Knights by the Holy Empire? And that they can have a mount?
^just another good reason for emerald knights to ride mounts Marzhin 
blob2 said:
Or even a H4 styled alternative building paths (Unicorn/Sun Deer or Emerald Dragon/Phoenix etc)?
good idea!  
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Royin
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 10:20 AM |
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Stevie said:
Galaad.
As far as I see things, you're the only one causing friction. I am reading all your comments on the voting site and on the Heroes Community boards and I don't like what I see. There has been a steady rising of Strength votes coming from Balance to the point it's now 27%, and you applauded that. Yet when 1% percent transferred from Balance to Fury, you proceeded with accusations of cheating again.
I'm telling you this, I know you are emotional and that these days are stressful. Maybe you're trying to blow off steam. But try to understand that the rest of the voters are in the same situation. And claims of cheating aren't helping at all here. There's a ton of paranoia already, we don't need more.
So I will ask you kindly and respectfully: please stop stirring things up with such accusations.
http://i.imgur.com/jxUpHAk.png
It's not stirring up, he's just trying to bring it up as a subject. It's not a rumor and it's happening right in front of us. You can't shove it under the rug, look away and pretend it's not there. This has become an issue that needs to be addressed. Because if you don't deal with it, no matter who wins, people won't accept the outcome of the vote.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 23, 2014 10:27 AM |
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Stevie,
You know I respect you and your opinion.
Still :
Quote:
asdgasd1231214 September 23, 2014 08:49:44
i'm trying to get some other buddies to do it with me all night, if all 6 of us and be doing it for a few hours it should make a difference, you guys should do it too
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 10:33 AM |
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Royin said:
Stevie said:
Galaad.
As far as I see things, you're the only one causing friction. I am reading all your comments on the voting site and on the Heroes Community boards and I don't like what I see. There has been a steady rising of Strength votes coming from Balance to the point it's now 27%, and you applauded that. Yet when 1% percent transferred from Balance to Fury, you proceeded with accusations of cheating again.
I'm telling you this, I know you are emotional and that these days are stressful. Maybe you're trying to blow off steam. But try to understand that the rest of the voters are in the same situation. And claims of cheating aren't helping at all here. There's a ton of paranoia already, we don't need more.
So I will ask you kindly and respectfully: please stop stirring things up with such accusations.
http://i.imgur.com/jxUpHAk.png
It's not stirring up, he's just trying to bring it up as a subject. It's not a rumor and it's happening right in front of us. You can't shove it under the rug, look away and pretend it's not there. This has become an issue that needs to be addressed. Because if you don't deal with it, no matter who wins, people won't accept the outcome of the vote.
nomatter what random people are writting on ubi forum does not mean it's happening.
someone said galaad had numerous accounts, but i don't think it's true and i won't start accusing him for that.
accept the reality like an adult. enough with the denial.
just because the majority here does not like fury it does not mean that the whole world does not like it either.
how hard is it to grasp and accept some things that are out of your preference people???
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 10:43 AM |
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Edited by jhb at 11:14, 23 Sep 2014.
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Royin said:
http://i.imgur.com/jxUpHAk.png
It's not stirring up, he's just trying to bring it up as a subject. It's not a rumor and it's happening right in front of us. You can't shove it under the rug, look away and pretend it's not there. This has become an issue that needs to be addressed. Because if you don't deal with it, no matter who wins, people won't accept the outcome of the vote.
I think the question is that he and others decided to bring the subject, because the results were not of their liking. And this is a very different story.
I'm also against this cheating, but I think it's happening from all the 3 lines, and we don't know the impact of this to accuse X or Y, just because some % changed.
Edit: but anyway, I hope the devs are really aware of this.
Edit2: It's probably happening since the dwarf X elves poll.
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Royin
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 10:48 AM |
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ChrisD1 said:
Royin said:
Stevie said:
Galaad.
As far as I see things, you're the only one causing friction. I am reading all your comments on the voting site and on the Heroes Community boards and I don't like what I see. There has been a steady rising of Strength votes coming from Balance to the point it's now 27%, and you applauded that. Yet when 1% percent transferred from Balance to Fury, you proceeded with accusations of cheating again.
I'm telling you this, I know you are emotional and that these days are stressful. Maybe you're trying to blow off steam. But try to understand that the rest of the voters are in the same situation. And claims of cheating aren't helping at all here. There's a ton of paranoia already, we don't need more.
So I will ask you kindly and respectfully: please stop stirring things up with such accusations.
http://i.imgur.com/jxUpHAk.png
It's not stirring up, he's just trying to bring it up as a subject. It's not a rumor and it's happening right in front of us. You can't shove it under the rug, look away and pretend it's not there. This has become an issue that needs to be addressed. Because if you don't deal with it, no matter who wins, people won't accept the outcome of the vote.
nomatter what random people are writting on ubi forum does not mean it's happening.
someone said galaad had numerous accounts, but i don't think it's true and i won't start accusing him for that.
accept the reality like an adult. enough with the denial.
just because the majority here does not like fury it does not mean that the whole world does not like it either.
how hard is it to grasp and accept some things that are out of your preference people???
I don't know why you keep denying and belittling it. That post was made 2 hours ago and got 56 upvotes. It specifically states "All I had to do was hit create account, punch in an email like "asdgasdga@gmail.com" password: asdfasdg username: afgasdfasdg and hurry and click a date of birth and hit create and bam new account. You can do it extremely fast."
It's REAL. It's not global warming of which you're not really sure if it's happening even though you see the signs but you can still say "well it's not true because we have no real proof". This is someone who openly admitted that he made multiple accounts just to see what happens and it worked. No one's saying Fury is cheating, all 3 line-ups probably are. But you guys keep forgetting that it's not just 1 person. If 1 person can make 50 accounts manually then 20 can make 1000. And god forbid should anyone ever be clever enough to make a script to just let his computer create accounts using e-mail lists that are everywhere on the internet, leave his computer overnight and wake up to see his favourite line-up up with X%.
Can we please STOP treating this as a fairy tale? I'm not making a big deal out of it because X or Y line-up is winning I'm pissed off because I'm told to shush about a poll being unfair.
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 10:52 AM |
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Edited by jhb at 11:11, 23 Sep 2014.
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Royin said:
Can we please STOP treating this as a fairy tale? I'm not making a big deal out of it because X or Y line-up is winning I'm pissed off because I'm told to shush about a poll being unfair.
Yes, I didn't believe that at the beginning, but looks like it's very real. I agree with you.
But the impact of this is unknown, some dev info is needed.
Edit: I'm going to work now guys, it would be nice if someone could get a dev info to clarify.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 11:09 AM |
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Royin said:
Can we please STOP treating this as a fairy tale? I'm not making a big deal out of it because X or Y line-up is winning I'm pissed off because I'm told to shush about a poll being unfair.
If that was the case you would scream your lungs out from day 1. Or day 2. Even in the elves-dwarves poll there were indications of people going around with lots of accounts and they actually admitted it. Where were you then by the way? And since you know there was cheating in polls in general before, you should have expressed your frustration from the start. I really wonder why didn't you do it then...
Your timing is unfortunate, Sorry.
It's an issue that we have discussed over and over and Marzhin said they would look into it.
What more do you want? Your line up to win??? Just wait it might happen. Till then stop stirring up the community please.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 23, 2014 11:16 AM |
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ChrisD1 said:
@Protolisk
When i pointed out that fury and strength are super similar no one listened to me
Because they AREN'T. Lore-wise Fury is Warcraft.
And Warcraft got 42% and might go into Heroes game again, great.
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Royin
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 11:32 AM |
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Edited by Royin at 11:33, 23 Sep 2014.
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ChrisD1 said:
Royin said:
Can we please STOP treating this as a fairy tale? I'm not making a big deal out of it because X or Y line-up is winning I'm pissed off because I'm told to shush about a poll being unfair.
If that was the case you would scream your lungs out from day 1. Or day 2. Even in the elves-dwarves poll there were indications of people going around with lots of accounts and they actually admitted it. Where were you then by the way? And since you know there was cheating in polls in general before, you should have expressed your frustration from the start. I really wonder why didn't you do it then...
Your timing is unfortunate, Sorry.
It's an issue that we have discussed over and over and Marzhin said they would look into it.
What more do you want? Your line up to win??? Just wait it might happen. Till then stop stirring up the community please.
1. I voted and I didn't look back when Sylvan VS Fortress was up. Is that enough of an alibi or do you want to know where I spend my vacation too officer?
2. I actually started following this poll 4 days ago (September 19th) and I mentioned that fake accounts were thought to be made one day after http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=40586&pagenumber=52
3. I don't see how my timing as 1 person would somehow excuse the entire poll from any form of cheating which brings me to
4. Stop attacking people personally. I'm bringing up my arguments based on facts and you bring up everyone's personal life stories and use that as a counterargument. Apart from being offensive that's a fallacy and therefore an invalid argument.
5. I want the poll to be fair, that is all. Oh and yes I'll wait and see what Ubisoft does about this as will everyone else, no worries.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 11:41 AM |
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Edited by ChrisD1 at 11:49, 23 Sep 2014.
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SURPRISE!!! There's was cheating in the polls before you decided to care so much for them!
As i said before, your timing is unfortunate. Take a seat, make youself comfortable and wait like the rest of us.
You are not bringing up anything new.
So stop spamming!!
No one is attacking anyone so stop making it seem like it.
____________
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 12:07 PM |
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Cheating is possible. And most likely it happened. But to the point that one person alone can affect percentages is impossible. Small scale, yes. Percentage scale? Hell no. I have calculations made for a hypothetical poll of 100.000 votes that say that to change 33%-33%-34% to 32%-32%-36% requires an amount of 4165 extra votes for the latter. That's figure to transfer a mere 2% by adding votes to one single line-up, 2077 for 1%. That's a number you simply can't achieve.
People, let's first calm down. Secondly, let's ask for more clarification from Marzhin, right now, he's our only reliable link to Ubi. Until we get further info we should be patient and stop escalating the situation unnecessarily.
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blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
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posted September 23, 2014 12:12 PM |
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Stevie said:
Cheating is possible. And most likely it happened. But to the point that one person alone can affect percentages is impossible. Small scale, yes. Percentage scale? Hell no. I have calculations made for a hypothetical poll of 100.000 votes that say that to change 33%-33%-34% to 32%-32%-36% requires an amount of 4165 extra votes for the latter. That's figure to transfer a mere 2% by adding votes to one single line-up, 2077 for 1%. That's a number you simply can't achieve.
People, let's first calm down. Secondly, let's ask for more clarification from Marzhin, right now, he's our only reliable link to Ubi. Until we get further info we should be patient and stop escalating the situation unnecessarily.
100.000 votes? You can't seriously believe the number of votes is even close to that number. More like couple of thousands at best.
Without the actual number of votes those calculations are completely irrelevant.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 12:16 PM |
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blizz said:
100.000 votes? You can't seriously believe the number of votes is even close to that number. More like couple of thousands at best.
Without the actual number of votes those calculations are completely irrelevant.
Granted. But all the more reason to request more information from Marzhin and alleviate the situation, not get it worse.
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 12:41 PM |
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Edited by jhb at 12:53, 23 Sep 2014.
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Well, since the cheater exposed everything the % are still the same. So, I'm guessing that the impact might not be big or these guys actually just think they are cheating.
Still we should wait for dev info.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted September 23, 2014 12:47 PM |
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Well, internet is a "free country", but don't you guys find silly that some people make a couple of accounts just to give additional votes in some abstract voting? We don't even know if devs will actually use it's results. Maybe they'll say sth like: "because so many fans were dissapointed with the results (and spammed our mail) we decided to make our own line-up" etc...
After all, if devs decided to make their own line-up form the beginning there would be a lot of whining, but as with previous entries, fans would have to accept those decisions...
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 23, 2014 12:51 PM |
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Edited by jhb at 12:54, 23 Sep 2014.
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blob2 said:
After all, if devs decided to make their own line-up form the beginning there would be a lot of whining, but as with previous entries, fans would have to accept those decisions...
you're a genius! lol
But I guess people would find something to whine about.
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