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Heroes Community > Turban Tribunal > Thread: HC Homepage Upgraded
Thread: HC Homepage Upgraded This thread is 9 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT»
verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Armagerwin's Blade
posted October 08, 2014 08:58 AM

Salamandre said:
Wow, the typical Net scrounger arrogance, to risk the question about personal enrichment up to asking for a "solid proof". HC is 13 yo already without any fees, your interest in HC is represented by a merely hundred posts and you talk like you know smting?


I sure do, it's a fairly innocent question to be visible what would happen with your money if you choose to donate it,
sorry if you think it's taboo, or if you quantify somebody's worth by their number of posts, but can't help that lol

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted October 08, 2014 10:01 AM
Edited by Maurice at 10:05, 08 Oct 2014.

Valeriy said:
Adblockers: I am not invalidating the good aspects of using an adblocker. There are some sites that have dangerous advertising content, but most of the sites that do not deal with warez, torrents and porn do not have such malicious ads. There are also a number of web sites that have huge amounts of advertising in order to squeeze as much revenue as possible out of the users with no regard for their comfort.


Just to point to a very specific case: a few years ago, Allakhazam's site was the source of a keylogger that came through one of the banners it was hosting in its banner revolver. Obviously, Allakhazam had just made a deal to host the revolver, while not having any control over the contents. Unfortunately, one of the banners eventually had some code embedded within, which installed a keylogger on the PC of the person viewing said banner.

I escaped that one back then, because it was active in a period where I was unable to access my PC and thereby didn't have that banner loaded to my PC, but a lot of other people were less fortunate. The keylogger in question was aimed at EverQuest accounts, if I remember correctly. Say what you want, but Allakhazam was always a reputable and reliable site for me - until that moment. Even if they took countermeasures as soon as the keylogger was discovered and they had no control whatsoever about the specific banners displayed in the ad revolver, the damage was still done - they were, in the end, responsible for what they display on their website.

But should a banner damage my PC in anyway (Trojan, keylogger, etc ...), I'm stuck with the mess and the people behind the website where I got it, won't be coming over to clean up my PC for me . Let alone actually compensate me for financial loss due to account hacks and possible credit card issues.

But that as an aside. I'm with Verriker on this one, that I hardly ever click banners to begin with. For that matters, I'm someone who searches for things in a very targeted way and commercials don't really appeal to me (whether it's on TV, radio, internet, etc ...). Same deal when I am shopping; I usually determine beforehand what I need, that's what I get and only very rarely do I get home with stuff that I didn't set out to get in the first place. So whether or not I'm using an ad-blocker won't change much - if anything - for your income.

Now, for the site itself, I've been using it for years and I've really come to appreciate the community here and the work that has been put into it (even if it has some quirks I don't like ) and I am honest enough to want to give it return value. I'm using it while I know there are expenses involved, so why shouldn't I?

Valeriy said:
As few of you suggested, a small supporter subscription that removes all ads from HC when the user is logged in is probably the best idea. It could be something small like $10 per year. What do you think about this? And is there anything that could go in the place of the banner for ad-free supporters?


Note that I don't have a clue how such a thing could be coded into a website; but not held back by any form of knowledge about it, I'd make the following suggestion. As you said, you have a certain amount of expenses in a given period of time. What you could do, is display that amount somewhere on the page (in a corner perhaps?), with a "Donate" button below it, for all users. Perhaps a small explanation what the money represents and a kindly request to help keep the site running. Leave it to people themselves how much they're willing to donate and lower the total amount you still need to keep it running with every donation made. As an incentive to get some minimum donation, you could say that at a certain donation amount, the person making that donation will not see any banners for an X-amount of time. I realise this means you somehow need to couple the donation to an account, but I don't know how you would code something like that .

Now I don't know how generous people here on the site will be and how much money is required to play even, so maybe you'll be surprised and find your quota met within minutes, maybe you are still starving for funds weeks after implementing it, I don't know. Time will have to tell.

I saw someone mention something about PayPal; If you do make a donation thingy, I hope you do more than just PayPal, as I don't have a PayPal account .

Valeriy said:
And is there anything that could go in the place of the banner for ad-free supporters?


I guess you know how AdBlock works; it just leaves the frame empty where the banner would have to be. Personally, I'm find with just leaving it empty, so the actual content remains the focus of the page.

Quote:
I may implement adblocker detection which shows internal ads for HC games when an adblocker is detected, also rotated with a banner that shows the possibility of being an ad-free supporter. These internal ads will not have any risks and will bypass adblockers.


I can live with that and wouldn't find it intrusive at all - at least, if they're not in flashy colors and moving elements and not distort the page layout .

Corribus said:
The ads here are so unobtrusive. I honestly can't believe they would be a bother to anyone. I hardly notice them.


They may be unobtrusive, as far as colors and dimensions go, but my experiences are that the banners here (before AdBlock) were animated. Animations are of course intended to draw your eyes so you are tempted by the ad in question, but when you want to focus on the page contents while ignoring the ad, it's quite annoying to see the animations occur from the periphery of your field of view. At least, that's what I feel.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 08, 2014 10:22 AM
Edited by Stevie at 10:23, 08 Oct 2014.

I can't believe you people.

This guy's been paying for the site from his pocket alone for the last 13 years. And now when he asks for a bit of help with some donations you dare deny them from him because you don't know where the money's going? So what if it goes in his wallet, doesn't he pay for the site from that same wallet? Invoking principles much? Yea, like the purpose of this site was to support terrorism.

So much fuss over pocket change that you don't even have to pay, but donate if you want.

I think the solution is simple:

- always free use of the site, but with ads and all;
- donation feature implemented; donate to support the site;
- donations award privileges, for example like the ones QP's award (no 20/day post limit, flood protect, etc.) - iirc this is not considered a transaction so you don't go into other stuff...

My 2 cents. You don't want to donate because of "principles"? Don't donate. But don't impede this feature that others want to use.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 08, 2014 10:40 AM

Verriker, is not your post numbers that I critic, but the fact that, with so little activity here (read no knowledge about this forum history, how was born and how survived, while EVERY other Heroes site went down), you dare to play the offended and ask the impossible: see the solid proofs that administrator isn't paying his Hawaii trip with the money you didn't yet give and which he didn't yet ask you.




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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Armagerwin's Blade
posted October 08, 2014 10:57 AM

well like I said, it's not an accusation at all, and you can take offense if you want, but I actually am eager to donate lol

my only condition is to be sure it's an operation cost and nothing else, if that can't be shown then it would be no donation from me, but I ain't telling either of you two what you can or can't do at any stage lol, so no need to get excited on my account

server costs are a valid reason to solicit money, but I humbly believe a fansite should be a non-profit venture and not a business

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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted October 08, 2014 02:55 PM

Design
I'm a bit sad that the Forum button is replaced with Heroes 7. I used to come in through the AoH site, check the latest news and then move on to the forums. I guess I'll have to skip the first part from now. (not that it's much of an issue, of course)

Adblock
I once frequented a site where an ad was replaced with a message for AdBlock users. It went something like this: "Ads are a the only source of our income. If you enjoy our site please support us by disabling AdBlock for it." That was the first time I realized AdBlock is blocking more than I would like and I disabled it for that site and shortly after for HC.

Btw, while I usually ignore the ads on HC there is one game that I have been playing on and off for about 8 years now and I was first introduced to it by an HC banner ad.

@fred
You don't have to turn your AdBlock on and off every time you visit HC. You can just add the site to its exception list.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 08, 2014 08:40 PM

Geny said:
It went something like this: "Ads are a the only source of our income. If you enjoy our site please support us by disabling AdBlock for it." That was the first time I realized AdBlock is blocking more than I would like and I disabled it for that site and shortly after for HC.


If you don't actively click on the banners and ads, disabling adblock does nothing at all.
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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted October 08, 2014 08:55 PM

Did you also read my next line?
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 08, 2014 09:02 PM

I meant the other site
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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted October 08, 2014 09:07 PM

The other site did not end up giving the kind of ads I might be interested in. HC does.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 08, 2014 09:41 PM

verriker said:
I humbly believe a fansite should be a non-profit venture and not a business


"Fan site" is only a hazy concept where someone who never did one thinks administrators are born with a spoon in mouth, and where the concept of "fan" gives some free rights when dealing with sharks as web sellers.

A site is an artificial environment where the visitor comfortably (or not) spends his time. This require time and tools to build, as any comfortable building. If one day the builder thinks he is entitled to ask money from those enjoying the staying, you have three choices: a) No thanks the services proposed are not worth b) Yes I pay, the services are worth or c) Let me participate in other ways because I appreciate what you're doing (help to code, build mods, offer specific services, as Lizzy for example).

All these arguments about Ubisoft copyright are gibberish, this forum is not build on copyrighted UBI graphics, the only UBI graphics are those who visitors post.  
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Armagerwin's Blade
posted October 08, 2014 10:14 PM

well sorry dude, but if you gibberish it or not, there are always some muddy law issues when you mix monetization in with somebody else's intellectual property, that's why legal departments exist lol

fansites and forums are derivative, basically try to sell your Heroes 3 mods online and see where that gets you, probably a cease and desist order, because Ubi will protect its property

if you go and look up some actual examples like The One Ring.net or Gallifrey Base, who have donation programs with a non-profit agenda, and give out extras to charities but no personal gain,
though for the nth time, it's not meant as accusation or an insult, I don't believe HC would be for profit, but just ask for confirm

like if I think it's dodgy I wouldn't pay, if it's not I gladly would love to pay up and support the site, that's all lol

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fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted October 08, 2014 10:31 PM

You got to get out of this collage mentality. There are most likely a few HC members who are able to afford a few $s every couple of months instead of using it as beer money. Heck I'm even sure there are some that could easily afford the servercosts for the next 5 years out of their pockets. It's just about giving these people the opportunity to do so. I recommended paypal because it's widespread and not directly connected to ones bank-account. If it's an issue of not giving too much then that can easily be helped by setting targets for donations. RPGWatch has been running this way for several years now...
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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted October 08, 2014 11:21 PM

Geny said:
@fred
You don't have to turn your AdBlock on and off every time you visit HC. You can just add the site to its exception list.


i don't use adblock. what i enable/disable manually is an add-on called "3rd party application component". it's an activex control.

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Valeriy
Valeriy

Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
posted October 08, 2014 11:40 PM

verriker said:
if you could try to clearly explain how and where the money from ads comes from, and also clarify whether you're trying to make any profit on this fansite or just using ad revenue to cover server charges, it would help to understand your mentality a bit

in any case I'm probably not turning my adblocker off, sorry if that's parasitic but that's just my personal choice, and since I don't click on ads I don't currently feel any ethical obligation or guilt trip here, unless the money is literally used only to cover upkeep and server costs (again an explanation for dummies like me might clear this up though lol)

I view ads as mind pollution in general, and to be brutally honest would just find another workaround or another Heroes fan forum if you try to put in ads on top of the ads, adception lol


I hope that I do disappoint you as HC would be better off without this kind of arrogance. You are very welcome to relocate to another heroes site with a more altruistic admin

---

mvassilev said:
I'm willing to pay a larger yearly fee personally (i.e. regardless of whether anyone else pays), but only if the old homepage is restored. Regardless, those who are paying the fee should have some say in how HC is run. Removing ads alone isn't enough.


If you are talking about greater privileges, we would need some kind of tiered system

$10/year - all ads are hidden
$130/year - all ads are hidden, limited access to Mod Squad HQ with ability to post in decision-making discussions
$250/year - all ads are hidden, limited access to Mod Squad HQ with ability to post in decision-making discussions - these posts will be considered to carry the same weight as opinion of a moderator
$500/year - all ads are hidden, limited access to Mod Squad HQ with ability to post in decision-making discussions - these posts will be considered to carry the same weight as opinion of a moderator, 5 hours per year of admin development time to code extra features - as long as they are good for HC overall and do not inconvenience or disadvantage other members
$1500/year - all ads are hidden, limited access to Mod Squad HQ with ability to post in decision-making discussions - these posts will be considered to carry the same weight as opinion of a moderator, 5 hours per year of admin development time to code extra features

---

Maurice said:
Just to point to a very specific case: a few years ago, Allakhazam's site was the source of a keylogger that came through one of the banners it was hosting in its banner revolver. Obviously, Allakhazam had just made a deal to host the revolver, while not having any control over the contents. Unfortunately, one of the banners eventually had some code embedded within, which installed a keylogger on the PC of the person viewing said banner.


A valid case, however, how frequent are they when we take 100 reputable sites over the duration of 10 years? Also, how many of these threats would get past an anti-virus/spyware software? One should not go on the internet without such software as much as one should not drive a car without a seat belt.

I think we might find that the likelihood is not hugely different from driving a car and having someone drive into us by accident. A case of "there was a road accident somewhere, so I shall never drive again"? By the way, I'm not insisting that the choice to block ads on a site because of a spyware incident is wrong. Rather, I'm pointing out the wider context when making such choices.

---

What I'm baffled by is some people's insistence that I should not get a single dollar, and that the thousands of hours I've spent building Heroes sites over 17 years must not even be on the minimum wage, but completely voluntary. At the same time, some of the said people expect to benefit from the fruits on my labour while not having a single advertisement that they might find slightly annoying. They may even have the goodness to donate, but only if can I prove it to them that I will not get anything from it. Seriously, these people are welcome to get lost. Or better yet, to prove their point by undertaking a project of similar magnitude on a completely volunteer basis - not just in theory, but in practice.

Of the most prominent and active international heroes sites that have been running for 10 years or more, both have ads and utilize affiliate programmes. In terms of IP and business, fan sites are actually a promotional business asset for the game publisher and are encouraged.

By the way, the tiered system was a joke I don't want supporter subscriptions to make users superior. There may be some small perks in the way things are displayed, but I don't want anything that would put supporters above non-supporters. Also, I don't want users to be able to "buy" the privileges of people who earned QPs. The idea of the optional supporter subscription is to turn off the ads, support the site, and support future development.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted October 09, 2014 12:00 AM

Valeriy said:
If you are talking about greater privileges, we would need some kind of tiered system

$10/year - all ads are hidden
$130/year - all ads are hidden, limited access to Mod Squad HQ with ability to post in decision-making discussions
$250/year - all ads are hidden, limited access to Mod Squad HQ with ability to post in decision-making discussions - these posts will be considered to carry the same weight as opinion of a moderator
$500/year - all ads are hidden, limited access to Mod Squad HQ with ability to post in decision-making discussions - these posts will be considered to carry the same weight as opinion of a moderator, 5 hours per year of admin development time to code extra features - as long as they are good for HC overall and do not inconvenience or disadvantage other members
$1500/year - all ads are hidden, limited access to Mod Squad HQ with ability to post in decision-making discussions - these posts will be considered to carry the same weight as opinion of a moderator, 5 hours per year of admin development time to code extra features


i'm sure this is a joke, but i want to point out how bad of an idea this would be. some people here need authority, like the planet needs another race of hominids. this place would become a virtual ghost town, from all the abuse.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted October 09, 2014 12:07 AM

Valeriy said:
By the way, the tiered system was a joke :


fred79 said:
i'm sure this is a joke, but i want to point out how bad of an idea this would be.


You don't say Fred..




Anyway, since I'm writing here, I'll try to be constructive.

This thread has gone from a HC updates topic to a HC monetary contribution topic.. so I guess questions and comments in that regard are to be expected.

Just to get a general feel, how much does it cost to keep HC alive?

If it's possible to determine, how much of this has been covered by banner ads contributions?

Thank you for working on HC again, btw.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 09, 2014 12:35 AM

Well, I see we finally have the "cursed planet and evil hominids" somniloquy in the Turban Tribunal. How refreshing...

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Armagerwin's Blade
posted October 09, 2014 12:58 AM

Valeriy said:
I hope that I do disappoint you as HC would be better off without this kind of arrogance. You are very welcome to relocate to another heroes site with a more altruistic admin


some very revealing candor there lol, but basically I respectfully disagree a final time before bowing out of this thread,

Valeriy said:
What I'm baffled by is some people's insistence that I should not get a single dollar, and that the thousands of hours I've spent building Heroes sites over 17 years must not even be on the minimum wage, but completely voluntary.


that's correct IMO, you're indeed not entitled to any wage,
no matter if a fan is an insider, an admin, a moderator, a master mapmaker, a forum guy or even just a humble player, in my opinion the series owes them no profit, it never owed them anything, and they know that very well when they get into this in the first place

where getting users to balance out costs is concerned, there's no argument, sign me up

where getting users to create a profit for other use is concerned, I'm against it, it may feel wrong and even very offensive to those who've done so much they start to feel within their rights to ask for cash, but it's the only rational way, because a community is built by more than one person

for instance, if the moderators who also served HC for hundreds of thousands of hours would not get a red cent of the extra money for instance, or none of amazing contributors, mapmakers and modders, and users who forged the community get a piece, it's unfair and the logic of I deserve this falls to pieces, if indeed it is even legal to claim such money, which I seriously doubt

bottom line though dude, you get no hard feelings from me despite your comments, if you would reconsider the worldviews in the future, I'm the first to donate what little money I have to ya

other than all that, what can you do but say lol I guess, lol

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted October 09, 2014 02:19 AM

artu said:
Well, I see we finally have the "cursed planet and evil hominids" somniloquy in the Turban Tribunal. How refreshing...


and this isn't constructive feedback. drop your emotions, and try being useful.

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