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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Why dont they just do 2D
Thread: Why dont they just do 2D This thread is 13 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 · «PREV / NEXT»
Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Supreme Hero
posted December 28, 2014 06:56 PM

GenyaArikado said:
Quote:
Castlevania...far superior to...Bayonetta


oh hell snowing no.




You are probably very young, you like everything the new age throws at you.

Castlevania was much better in 2D than it was in 3D, that games sucked like hell.

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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted December 28, 2014 07:00 PM
Edited by Zombi_Wizzard at 19:03, 28 Dec 2014.

cliff_nest said:
Read more on the subject


I don't care. that is 3D. End of story. Call it what you want yourself.

@Genya: My post was was sarcastic you know .... And even if i think Castlevania (talking about original NES games here) was better or not is irelevant on the subject

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cleglaw
cleglaw


Famous Hero
posted December 29, 2014 03:29 AM
Edited by cleglaw at 03:36, 29 Dec 2014.

3D is realistic.. but question is.. do we really want realistic?

this question reminds me of painting art history.

to me, realism is -most of the time- just an obstecle to reach acctual content. sometimes it shadows the game by sticking too much to realism... like how things look in real-life... like how things are seen in a realistic observation... perspective from an eye and such.. this may really prevent seeing another thing/things.

in strategy games, you gotta see every tool, not just units but also options, stats and more and more stuff like that. you gotta see more than what we saw in real life.

there are big differances between CoD and M&M.

3D is, for M&M, is not only unnecessary but also dangerous.

a high quality 2d and 3d mix, is what i support for M&M.

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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted December 29, 2014 04:06 AM

Rakshasa92 said:
GenyaArikado said:
Quote:
Castlevania...far superior to...Bayonetta


oh hell snowing no.




You are probably very young, you like everything the new age throws at you.

Castlevania was much better in 2D than it was in 3D, that games sucked like hell.


First, Bayonetta is one of the most critically acclaimed games made in the last 5 years. And even if it wasnt, i wouldnt use your opinion to measure the worrth of anything at all.

And second, my username comes from a character. Google it and see from which series does it come from

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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted December 29, 2014 08:43 AM

cleglaw said:
3D is realistic.. but question is.. do we really want realistic?

Yes, just look at how realistic was H5. I mean the proportions of each creature ... just look at Demon - yep just like in real life.

Sarcasm aside, H3 has, to this day, one of most "realistic" approaches to the serie. And it's not 3D .... However it is "supposed" to be percived as such.

Realistic vs. cartoony/comic/abstract design has nothing to do with 2D vs. 3D technology. Take for instance Borderlands for example. It's 3D, but it's got "drawing style" to it.

cleglaw said:
in strategy games, you gotta see every tool, not just units but also options, stats and more and more stuff like that. you gotta see more than what we saw in real life.

Yes, we do. That's why we have UI. On that, I agree. UI has been bad in H6 especialy. But again, diferent topic and diferent issue.

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted December 29, 2014 01:38 PM
Edited by markkur at 13:40, 29 Dec 2014.

In the future, we will see 3D bring some very awesome stuff, maybe the best being our PC's will be able to run the stuff and we will get all that we have enjoyed from the earlier games. H-7 should be a big step in the right direction but we'll see.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted December 29, 2014 06:36 PM
Edited by Galaad at 18:36, 29 Dec 2014.

markkur said:
In the future, we will see 3D bring some very awesome stuff, maybe the best being our PC's will be able to run the stuff and we will get all that we have enjoyed from the earlier games. H-7 should be a big step in the right direction but we'll see.

I appreciate very much your enthusiasm.
However, when you look at most recent graphical cards, processors etc, 3D already brings very awesome stuff (just look at Witcher 3 ie). Only imagination draws the limits nowadays
Call me old-fashioned but I favor 2D comeback in general -not exclusively for Heroes- and if some games are obviously optimized for 3D, I remain skeptical about that being the case for HOMM.
I will repeat it, 3D graphics with a gameplay restricted to 2D plane looks to me like the best alternative for this franchise.
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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted December 30, 2014 07:31 PM

The crux of the problem is that H5 had the full blown 3D as a feature to rake money from the players, i.e. charge more money, made the game unplayable due to major performance issues and hindered mapmakers.

In order to experience Heroes Game to the fullest 3D isn't needed. It's just eye candy. This isn't true for many games these days - most games actually take advantage of 3d. Like:
- shooters and wow-like mmos: obvious
- strategy games and mobas - for terrain on multiple levels, and overlapping projectiles.

Heroes doesn't gain much from 3D. It might look nicer (maybe), but as a turn based game there's no gameplay improvement. I do like 3D games with perspective like Eador which are done right, but if 3D becomes a hinderence then I'm all up for scraping it all together.

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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted December 30, 2014 07:49 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 23:44, 31 Dec 2014.

blizzardboy said:
The crux of the problem is that your computer sucks.


shall I flame this guy? perfect example of asking for it

Moderator note: No. And that's the answer also next time you ask yourself "should I flame this guy". And all the times after that. That goes for the rest of you also.

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Raker
Raker

Tavern Dweller
posted January 06, 2015 04:47 AM
Edited by Raker at 04:48, 06 Jan 2015.

2D does seem to have a more mystical, fantastical vibe to it. I liken it to using CGI in movies as opposed to using practical effects (robotics, makeup, costumes etc.); the latter always seems to impress and astound more than the former.
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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted September 17, 2015 04:10 PM

Hate reviving old posts, but...

I don't get the deal why Ubi assumes 3D is surperior. I mean, to get more attention from customers, the product has to be unique, right? Most games nowadays are 3D, so why not have certain games revert to 2D to make them unique among others?

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted September 17, 2015 06:02 PM
Edited by markkur at 18:03, 17 Sep 2015.

With the changes I'm seeing in a high-strategy game I play(that is going deeper into 3d) it's clear that to do that, the Company is accepting a dumber A.I. with less player option.

So, I modify my stance a bit today; I enjoy 3D if done well but if the game cannot be made to play smart (does not have to mirror human-play)than 3D is not really an option. It should be, that a new game's mechanics need to be good, "only then let's see what we can afford to do."<S> (not dev-$ but PC play performance)

i.e. H5 when released, reversed this and the game was not easy to play for most. (I was aghast...zoom-in to CTD?)Today, years later, with a better computer I enjoy TotE very much, so for me, that is a strong indication that at the game's original release, the graphics were too far out in front of the game.

I do want a well implemented 3D because it brings in Elevation but if the game-AI. is still in kindergarten...nah. And what is a Heroes of Might and Magic game that CANNOT run a XL/huge map? A very restricted playground that I don't want.

If I were rolling in dough, I'd set one motherboard up to handle Graphics and another in-parallel to handle the game's A.I.<L>


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"Do your own research"

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Sandro400
Sandro400


Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
posted September 17, 2015 06:16 PM

I think Marzhin (or someone else from the team) already elaborated on this forum why they're sticking with 3D. Something about "it takes longer time and it's too costly" and the difficulty in finding good 2D-artists. I'll be grateful if someone will dig up the post.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted September 18, 2015 01:02 AM

I'd like to read that too.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 18, 2015 01:15 AM

HERE
Marzhin said:
2D graphics, as great as they are (and trust me, I'd love to do a Heroes game with lovely hand-painted 2D graphics), are actually more expensive than 3D graphics in our HD age (finding good 2D animators is not easy, finding cheap ones is almost impossible). If we need to do 3D models and turn them into 2D sprites (like they did on H3/H4) then it's actually simpler to go full 3D.

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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted September 18, 2015 01:39 AM

Exactly. Making a 3D model is hard but once it's one and it has the skeleton thing its easier to manipulate. You cant pull that off in 2D

GenyaArikado said:
Rakshasa92 said:
GenyaArikado said:
Quote:
Castlevania...far superior to...Bayonetta


oh hell snowing no.




You are probably very young, you like everything the new age throws at you.

Castlevania was much better in 2D than it was in 3D, that games sucked like hell.


First, Bayonetta is one of the most critically acclaimed games made in the last 5 years. And even if it wasnt, i wouldnt use your opinion to measure the worrth of anything at all.

And second, my username comes from a character. Google it and see from which series does it come from


Off-topic, but i'm still cackling at this. For the ones who dont get it, Genya Arikado is a character from Castlevania. One of the 2D ones on top of that.

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matrix123mko
matrix123mko


Hired Hero
posted September 18, 2015 07:12 AM

When game will be 2D, will be better?

NO!!! Game with worse graphic isn't better. 2D graphic cannot give us   true necropolis, mulitcolored races, akillwheel and cannot fix stability bugs. It will  not improve the gameplay. Good graphic concept in SD is better than bad graphic concept in HD, but if it's 2015 game it has to have good graphic. We need game with interesting story, good gameplay and HD 3D graphic.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 18, 2015 10:19 AM

matrix123mko said:
When game will be 2D, will be better?

NO!!! Game with worse graphic isn't better. 2D graphic cannot give us   true necropolis, mulitcolored races, akillwheel and cannot fix stability bugs. It will  not improve the gameplay. Good graphic concept in SD is better than bad graphic concept in HD, but if it's 2015 game it has to have good graphic. We need game with interesting story, good gameplay and HD 3D graphic.


I don't see what factions, faction lineups, skillwheel and stability bugs have anything to do with the graphics. It sounds like you're argueing against the color of the headlights of a car, because the cardoor windows can't be operated electronically.

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted September 18, 2015 10:44 AM

matrix123mko said:
When game will be 2D, will be better?

NO!!! Game with worse graphic isn't better. 2D graphic cannot give us   true necropolis, mulitcolored races, akillwheel and cannot fix stability bugs. It will  not improve the gameplay. Good graphic concept in SD is better than bad graphic concept in HD, but if it's 2015 game it has to have good graphic. We need game with interesting story, good gameplay and HD 3D graphic.


Oh, even if it was in worse graphics (which I am not claiming that), that shouldn't interfere with such gameplay features. Plus, it is a possibility that would increase "fluidness", like duration of AI turns, time to load a townscreen/battle map etc.

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted September 18, 2015 10:52 AM

Considering heroes is played on a 2D plane, 3D does not add anything gameplay-wise
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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