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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Boy... they sure did MISTREAT this franchise
Thread: Boy... they sure did MISTREAT this franchise This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted December 30, 2014 03:58 PM

posted December 30, 2014 01:11 AM

"2- I never said the franchise was raped, (though I don't like ubi stuff much, either), I defended the rights of someone who did, based on the premise that the figurative use of the word is not something to boo and grab the pitchforks about."

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 30, 2014 04:08 PM

Crazy that you still continue that, after it was made clear that all people complaining are ignorant about the English language. Yet you have no new point to make but still keep scratching around.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 30, 2014 04:14 PM

Avirosb said:
posted December 30, 2014 01:11 AM

"2- I never said the franchise was raped, (though I don't like ubi stuff much, either), I defended the rights of someone who did, based on the premise that the figurative use of the word is not something to boo and grab the pitchforks about."

Yes, you make it sound like that means the OP giving a damn is relevant to what I say, when obviously, I was talking about any hypothetical person's right to use the word rape as a figure of speech, that's why I specifically mention the premise. Do I have to spell that out, slower maybe? There is absolutely nothing biased about that.

And Sal's right, you asked some legit questions in the beginning, I replied to them decently but now, you are just scratching around because you can't let it go. Drop it.
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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted December 30, 2014 06:21 PM

Ashan's dull and h5 had nothing good in the story department. interesting scenarios and unique maps in the campaign as opposed to h3's kill-all-enemies or the occasional flag-all-dwellings/mines that was somewhat lost in h6 but some of it was retained (i liked that weird dream-map in the necro campaign) and the writing was most definetely better, even if the story was way smaller and because of that, more boring. i mean h5 had a worse story, but damn was it entertaining!

i don't know, it feels like ubisoft got a basketball and is trying to play hockey with it.

They're getting the hang of it and that's why i am hopeful for h7. yes, h5 was better than h6, but they had more vision and cohesion in h6 and the world actually felt at least somewhat plausible. But please, don't let lore shackle you. let loose. do something fun and crazy. do a h4. we need it by now...



thanks for the title-change btw. appreciate being able to read this thread without feeling somewhat nauseated as it's an interesting topic.

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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted December 30, 2014 06:30 PM

Quote:
So why didn't the other big houses or whatever they're called revolt?
I thought that was a thing that happened regularly, even to far more successful leaders.
And how does she start with advanced leadership if she's a newb?
And how does the player feel, helping a total idiot to victory?

Quote:


Well they were having a war with demons. And Vampire!Nicolai looks mostly the same so depending of how spread are the news of his death i suppose that it could work. Also iirc vampires had hypnotic abilities and stuff

Well, leadership increases morale. It might have to do with being part of the Queen's army.

I dont feel bad. Its not its the first time you get manipulated t do something evil in a game (Sacred Underworld has a reaaaally similar plot, except the Isabel equivalent was more aware) its not even the first time in heroes (coughKingGryphonheartcough)

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted December 30, 2014 06:45 PM

GenyaArikado said:
Well, leadership increases morale. It might have to do with being part of the Queen's army.



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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted December 30, 2014 07:21 PM

Isnt that what kings do when they dont get they way?

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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted December 30, 2014 07:24 PM

About the RAPE title: I don't care how you call it, truth is that they took it (against its will) and got it FUBAR. Find me another word for that and I'll use it.

======

The story was painful and the dialogues even more.

Text was better in the old games:
-entertaining ones made you passionate about reading and you read them trying to understand more about the story
- bad ones you could just click ok and be done with it.

In a game the story is rarely the center point (unless the game is a story, tell-tale game), but it needs to uphold a minimum standard to avoid players eye-rolling every time a cutscene is happening.

H5 had an eye-rolling story.

All that's needed is a bland boring story to justify why you are doing things. I am ok with "Go slay the big bad dragon who has been terrorizing this land". It's fine for a Heroes game.

Do that. No bullsnow cutscenes, text is enough. And focus on gameplay, the challenge difficulty of the campaigns and any other cool stuff to add (like unique hero builds, Like Gelu, Dracon or that Dark Priest lady in H4 etc)

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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted December 30, 2014 10:40 PM

I don't like Heroes campain mainly for this reasons:
- missions are too long. They realy start to drag as you go. More focused and short missions, but more of them would imo be much better. Last game i tried to do campaign was H6, since everyone was on about how it's the best so far and what not. It wasn't. A lot of missions you just have to take castle, but as time goes by, said castle builds stronger and stronger army, and sends heroes to your teritory you have to deal with. Once you finaly get to the final fight and win, another mission starts ... and it is THE SAME CRAP. I mean I could understand if final mission was very long or something ... but not all of them...

- There's no progression of your faction. What i mean is ... from very first mission you already have access to most of your units. Sure for champion tier it takes 2 or 3 missions, but from that point onward, it's no progression. That coupled with first point makes things EVEN WORSE! and more tedious. I would prefer for first mission to be very short with only 2 unit types being available, and then new unit type would unlock as you go along. Also missions would be longer, but not too much.

- Too litle of unique stuff. That is unique units, war machines, spells and what not, that are only available in campaign. Campaign should be full of that.

- scripted events and battles. There's not much of that, and because of that missions feel like random maps vs AI ... What if your hero needed to kill enemy hero or moster, and has only limited army to fight with? Wouldn't that be better? So both you and your oponent are "caped" atleast for some missions, so that you HAVE to fight oponent with just so much troops? Yes. It would be better.

- story that is passable. This i give credit to. Story was never terrible, but i admit it could be better. But stuff i mentioned above are far more important, atleast for me.

Sure i will "try" H7 campaign ... even if i said in the past i won't. But unless it got stuff I just wrote, i won't get past 3 or 4 missions.


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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted December 30, 2014 10:54 PM

kiryu133 said:
But please, don't let lore shackle you. let loose. do something fun and crazy. do a h4. we need it by now...

Hopefully the devs aren't much shackled to the lore, as they offered Phoenix for Sylvan. Is people that chose Ashan because some were afraid that Phoenix would "burn the forest", lol
No, last time they tried to do H4 we got H6. I appreciate that MMH7 seems to focus more on strategy and less on roleplaying.
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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted December 30, 2014 11:38 PM

Galaad said:

No, last time they tried to do H4 we got H6. I appreciate that MMH7 seems to focus more on strategy and less on roleplaying.


I can agree h6 was alot like h4 in it interesting and cool ideas implemented less than ideally, though h4 got a playable game out of it...

but i meant more like h4 as in "reset everything and start from scratch" mentality.


Zombi_Wizzard said:

- missions are too long. They realy start to drag as you go. More focused and short missions, but more of them would imo be much better. Last game i tried to do campaign was H6, since everyone was on about how it's the best so far and what not. It wasn't. A lot of missions you just have to take castle, but as time goes by, said castle builds stronger and stronger army, and sends heroes to your teritory you have to deal with. Once you finaly get to the final fight and win, another mission starts ... and it is THE SAME CRAP. I mean I could understand if final mission was very long or something ... but not all of them...




h5 was pretty good at this as far as i can remember. i mean the third (i think. or was it second?) inferno mission has you race another hero to the goal. no castles, no need for resources, simply get to a crypt before your enemy and defeat some guy. first dungeon mission also stand out to me as being very unique and different, being nothing but preparations for a set amount of turns until it is time to battle several other heroes in a battle royal of sorts. pretty cool stuff and i would love to see more of that in h7.

and more crazy story if you won't hire competent writers. nothing beats that insane cheese in h5. so bad yet so good XD

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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted December 31, 2014 12:07 AM
Edited by Zombi_Wizzard at 00:07, 31 Dec 2014.

kiryu133 said:
h5 was pretty good at this as far as i can remember. i mean the third (i think. or was it second?) inferno mission has you race another hero to the goal. no castles, no need for resources, simply get to a crypt before your enemy and defeat some guy. first dungeon mission also stand out to me as being very unique and different, being nothing but preparations for a set amount of turns until it is time to battle several other heroes in a battle royal of sorts. pretty cool stuff and i would love to see more of that in h7.

and more crazy story if you won't hire competent writers. nothing beats that insane cheese in h5. so bad yet so good XD


Sure, there are good missions here and there, but they are more of an exceptions ... I never got that far in H5 - i gave up by 3'rd or 4'th Heaven mission ... Not because it was too hard, I just find it tedious. Anyway that was long ago, maybe ill try to do it again sometime. I usualy don't have much time on hands to do super long sessions. I remember i played one mission - I belive it was in H6 tho - that took me 5 days to do, while playing 2h per day at average. I quit with campaign after that. It was similar situation in H3 and H5 ... never even touched campaign button in H1 and H2.  

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted December 31, 2014 12:55 AM

kiryu133 said:

I can agree h6 was alot like h4 in it interesting and cool ideas implemented less than ideally, though h4 got a playable game out of it...

Interesting and cool ideas, like :

- Exclusive online content
- Reduction of resources from 7 to 4
- Suppression of Mage Guilds
- Suppression of most adventure dwellings
- Suppression of weeks of creatures
- Centralized creature pools between castles and dwellings
- Introduction of Town Portal as a building and restricting its use to its construction only.
- Suppression of movement penalty for landing/boarding
- Non-random skill system
- Introduction of 3 tier creatures = my level 1 creature one has same strength as my level 3 one and my level 4 has same strength as level 6 one
- Giving extra swift speed to tier 1 creatures
- Artifacts trivialized (need Dynasty weapon, only available online)

A few others like Town Conversion and Area of controls are debatable but were so poorly implemented that result turned into most boring game I've ever played, without counting the enormous amount of bugs kept getting worse after each patch (rolling back graphic cards drivers to be able to start the game lol), but you know all that, as you rightly said game was and still is unplayable, and don't get me started about decisions like Holy Haven with Blazing Glories and Light Cavaliers that could pass through walls, or the neon dancehall fest with factions color-coded blinding horror.

Defending this game shouldn't be allowed lol

No, if the game was to be started from scratch again, then it should take more than a year to create it, and give total freedom and means to a dedicated team that will make this game their reason of living. lol

Ubilimb decision of seeking inspiration from H3-H4-H5 is good for the moment, I only wish they could drop features like area of controls but let's see how it turns out, even if I don't often sound like it, I have good hopes for MMH7.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 31, 2014 02:54 AM
Edited by artu at 06:24, 31 Dec 2014.

Nocturnal, there is so much disinformation and blatant logical fallacy that can be detected by a 5 year old in your post, no wonder you stay away from the OSM.

1- I am the one who carried the discussion in the proper thread, you people are the ones who are continuing to directly quote me here with replies, so, it is YOUR SIDE who does the derailing, not me. Post or quote on the proper thread and I will reply in the proper thread.

2- You are doing the same thing as in "objecting to something because you think it's wrong on principle." We just have different principles. This is not about numbers and if it was, more people agree with me than you. And stop acting like you have some valid poll data about all the women in the world agreeing to your opinion and claim they think just like you do, you're pulling that impression out of your butt. Most women I know couldn't care less, if somebody use the word rape in a context such as "this music rapes my ears." Sometimes, they do it themselves.

3- I have presented to you many examples (which all you ignored) that explained why this is not about masculine insensitivity versus female rights. This is about reading metaphors according to their context and realizing that figurative use of such a common word does not create or support any kind of oppression or discrimination in general, there can be exceptional, delicate situations but that's exactly what they are, exceptions. I don't "choose to be politically incorrect" because your shallow deconstructionist sensitivity does not determine what political correctness is, just like your illiterate pseudo-intellectualism does not determine the standards of sensitivity.

Of course, all of this is quite beside the point since the word still has a dictionary meaning that is not in any way archaic and which has nothing to do with sexual assault. That had already been elaborated here, where it was supposed to.


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Kimarous
Kimarous


Supreme Hero
posted December 31, 2014 04:56 AM

okrane said:
About the RAPE title: I don't care how you call it, truth is that they took it (against its will) and got it FUBAR. Find me another word for that and I'll use it.

*rolls eyes* It's freaking DATA! Non-sapient, digital media! It has no will of its own!

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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted December 31, 2014 08:32 AM

Censors RAPED this thread! THere!

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 31, 2014 02:50 PM

You have the right to be hurt by a word. What you don't have the right is to strip a language because you feel bad now and then, or accuse other people of using it right. Language is a science, and because this science we can translate from one language to others and share our treasuries. If you dare to do a search for that word origins and multiple meanings, instead of quoting irrelevant internet sites, then I think you will be enough honest to let it go.

Or maybe not, from what I see.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 31, 2014 03:52 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 15:54, 31 Dec 2014.

No, I am insisting because when individuals force laws to fit to them, nothing good occurs. Is a principle matter. You have thousand dictionaries online explaining you the usage of the word. It is not up to you to modify languages.

And we are done, I wish you a good year and may your soul relax
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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted December 31, 2014 04:04 PM

guys, you're getting off-topic. they changed the title (which is good), let's leave it at that

Galaad said:

Interesting and cool ideas, like :

- Exclusive online content
- Reduction of resources from 7 to 4
- Suppression of Mage Guilds
- Suppression of most adventure dwellings
- Suppression of weeks of creatures
- Centralized creature pools between castles and dwellings
- Introduction of Town Portal as a building and restricting its use to its construction only.
- Suppression of movement penalty for landing/boarding
- Non-random skill system
- Introduction of 3 tier creatures = my level 1 creature one has same strength as my level 3 one and my level 4 has same strength as level 6 one
- Giving extra swift speed to tier 1 creatures
- Artifacts trivialized (need Dynasty weapon, only available online)

A few others like Town Conversion and Area of controls are debatable but were so poorly implemented that result turned into most boring game I've ever played, without counting the enormous amount of bugs kept getting worse after each patch (rolling back graphic cards drivers to be able to start the game lol), but you know all that, as you rightly said game was and still is unplayable, and don't get me started about decisions like Holy Haven with Blazing Glories and Light Cavaliers that could pass through walls, or the neon dancehall fest with factions color-coded blinding horror.

Defending this game shouldn't be allowed lol

No, if the game was to be started from scratch again, then it should take more than a year to create it, and give total freedom and means to a dedicated team that will make this game their reason of living. lol

Ubilimb decision of seeking inspiration from H3-H4-H5 is good for the moment, I only wish they could drop features like area of controls but let's see how it turns out, even if I don't often sound like it, I have good hopes for MMH7.


oh, i completely agree. a ton of absolutely terrible decisions, but there are several interesting ideas that just weren't implemented well like weapons that would level with your hero. i mean that sounds very fun and interesting, they should've just made it into a normal artifact that would level with your hero and would not level with your account.

blood/tear system could be incredibly interesting and add a lot of depth and town conversion is something that, once again, could be very well made. WoG had it and while it was too time-consuming and expensive there, it was still a welcome addition. There were many ideas that could've been great, fantastic even, if implemented well.

Right now, Ubi is fumbling around the dark trying to figure out what works and not and if we are lucky it will learn and understand what does and doesn't work. h5 was a mess and a rehash but ultimately enjoyable while h6, while employing interesting and fresh ideas (i really want to see a good implementation of the blood/tear system), failed miserably at being enjoyable or even playable.

we'll have to wait and see if they've truly learned, as they can't really treat an ip like heroes the same way they can far cry or assassins creed. it's an entirely different beast so misteps are bound to happen.

tl;dr:

the will eventually learn how to treat the franchise. hopefully.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted December 31, 2014 04:46 PM

kiryu133 said:
the will eventually learn how to treat the franchise. hopefully.


yeah maybe on their sixth, seventh, eighth attempt hue hue hue

I wonder whether everyone will stop buying the games if they continue failing to figure out their arse from their elbow
then they'll probably cancel the series and blame it on the changing market instead of their own cheap laziness, lol

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