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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: SkillTweaks
Thread: SkillTweaks This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted January 13, 2015 03:31 PM
Edited by Sligneris at 18:10, 01 May 2015.

SkillTweaks

This is a pretty simple mod, SkillTweaks. It makes a few adjustments regarding which skills are required by which. Nothing big, but something definitely of importance to me. Most of these changes, I admit, do involve the build for the ultimate skill.

I'm going to add visual showcase of changes I made, but since it's a rather quick release, please wait for it. As it stands, the changes so far are as follows:

Red Skills are skills that are no longer required to obtain the skill.
Blue Skills are skills that were added as a requirement to obtain the skill.
Black Skills are skills that are still required to obtain the skill.

FEATURES

1.1
1.2 (The Dwarven Update)

DOWNLOADS
1.1
1.2 (The Dwarven Update)

Suggestions are welcome!

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Deflaktor
Deflaktor


Responsible
Known Hero
posted January 15, 2015 08:45 PM
Edited by Deflaktor at 20:46, 15 Jan 2015.

What is the purpose of this mod? Why were these changes made?

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted January 15, 2015 10:32 PM
Edited by Sligneris at 16:57, 04 Feb 2015.

I'm mostly trying to think what is the most iconic for specific faction or ability, their essence.

For example, Knights are masters of Counterstrike and Defense, so the perk Preparation, which grants them an unfailing retaliation when they defend themselves fits them much better than Last Stand, which is strictly defensive perk, having units fight until their last breath, luckily surviving enemy's strike.

Mentoring requires Intelligence and Scholar for all factions except Academy. Mentoring is perk allowing to trade experience, while Scholar is perk allowing to trade spells. They are inherently related, so I see no reason to separate them, like Nival did. Not to mention that trading spells is a rather characteristic ability for a Wizard, ability much more important than just getting some little gold.

Demons are masters of swift destruction, but also masters of mind control and illusions. Therefore, spells like Slow or Confusion fit them much better than, say, Decay. That's why I don't see the reason why mastering the type of magic that is characteristic to them should prevent them from getting their ultimate.

Empathy, motivating the hero to take his turn faster is a skill that's in no way related to the ability to learn spells, or his magic ability (spellpower). Since it is not exactly connected to the skill it requires, why should it require it? How does Empathy in any way require Arcane Exaltation? I see no connection. It also kinda helped that Barbarians and Rangers needed Diplomacy alone, too.

This kind of stuff, basically. I'm actually making another mod, that changes the starting skills of some heroes, mostly focusing on their specialization and biography. I know I'm dwelling too deep and it's useless to anyone besides me and friends I play with, but I thought to just leave it here, in case anyone is interested.

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted January 16, 2015 08:45 AM

In all honesty, I hoped my work would receive more comments than just 'why was it even made'...

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Hauptmann
Hauptmann

Tavern Dweller
posted January 18, 2015 11:49 AM

While I am sure that your changes make the game more enjoyable, my opinion is that 'skill trees' are an unnecessary annoying factor in H5. Thats why, when I created my own mod, I removed them altogether along with (almost) all of the 'non-standard' perks.

The reason for this was that in my experience the skills and perks my hero could get was way too random. When i wanted to build to a certain perk (like absolute gating or whatever) I first had had to be lucky enough to even be offered the requirement perks which, on top of that, were often quite useless. So I often ended up with a level 20+ hero with a lost of useless perks but still trying to get to the end of the 'tree'.
What made it worse was that when i was lucky enough to get all the skills/perks I wanted it was basically game over because my hero was invincible.
So I had the radical Idea of removing all the non standard perks (yes 'absolute' perks too because they were far too imbalanced anyway) and instead balancing the ones that were left.

Now I find the game much more enjoyable as almost every level-up offers me something I would like and at the same time it makes the choices of skills and perks less obvious and more dependant on the situation. IMO thats what a strategy game should be all about.

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted January 18, 2015 12:25 PM
Edited by Sligneris at 09:26, 19 Jan 2015.

My view on that isn't as radical. Aside from Necromancer's Enlightenment build or... basically every perk of one-time stat boost, I think the skills required are usually pretty useful.  It's true that the ultimate perks make you very powerful - but to me, it makes sense that such a big reward is difficult to get.

I don't think it makes the game all that unbalanced, either - for example, Biara in campaign does have the ultimate and she's pretty beatable, too. It's also easily countered by other ultimates. Most notable example is Sylvan with ultimate vs Fortress with ultimate. They are essentially nullifying themselves. The only ultimate that's useless with no chance to counter anything is Haven ultimate.

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted January 18, 2015 02:50 PM
Edited by Sligneris at 16:51, 04 Feb 2015.

1.2 version is out!

I like to call it The Dwarven Update, given the preeeetty big changes to requirements for Fortress's ultimate. It's been mostly inspired by a friend who pointed out that Destruction Magic and Summoning Magic don't exactly fit either the Dwarves, nor their game strategies.

I was conflicted between perks from Light Magic, Luck, Logistics or War Machines. I settled for Luck and Light Magic, but if you want to suggest another choice, I'll gladly listen!

Heh, now I kinda wish I could modify the SkillWheel, so I could plan some builds using this mod.

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted January 19, 2015 09:36 AM
Edited by Sligneris at 09:38, 19 Jan 2015.

Looking at the skill tree now, I wonder if I should somehow boost the effects of Offensive Formation and Defensive Formation, since they both have pretty big requirements now. That is, unless they are already granting powerful bonuses to Attack and Defense bonuses respectively, then nevermind.

On a side note, I kinda wish I could make Preparation require Retaliation Strike instead of Expert Trainer, which I used for Knights in 1.1 and 1.2. I couldn't think of a way to fit Expert Trainer anywhere otherwise. I thought of swapping it with Divine Guidance, but then again, I kinda like to keep Divine Guidance dependant on Retaliation Strike, given they are both combat abilities...

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
posted February 01, 2015 09:31 PM

This works for Tribes or HOF? You should edit skillwheel mod so we would see changes in game wheel.

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted February 03, 2015 06:12 PM
Edited by Sligneris at 19:30, 03 Feb 2015.

It's a mod for ToE. HoF and base H5 would need much more work, to be honest...

I was thinking of editing the SkillWheel, but the problem is, it's way harder than changing the actual requirements and I'm not skilled enough to mess with that...

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dredknight
dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted March 22, 2015 08:36 PM

Hello Sligneris ,

I am really glad you care about the balance in the game!
I really love PvP heroes and the thing about HV was that there was none at all.

I would like to forward you to this mod though - Role playing edition.
here is a link - http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=32305.

Please check out the new changes. The creator did a some PDFs with very good description what is changed and why.

Here are the major changes that I really like - each race has 3 different classes (fighter oriented, mage oriented, medium oriented).
In the original H5 Tote, each faction has only 1 class.
For example if a faction class is magic you will hardly make a good fighter (quite better than the mage).Each Major + minor skill tree is nicely done and makes some actual meaning.  Some hero specials are redone so they are not obsolete (or too strong).Some of the alternative upgrades are altered a bit so they can be really alternative.I play this a lot PvP. Actually I dont even know why there is no league or smth like this.

What I mean is that you can try it and try to balance it further. I will be helping with testing . What do you think?

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted March 24, 2015 12:22 AM
Edited by Sligneris at 20:27, 25 Mar 2015.

Oh, I know very little about balance - in fact, changes made by me might make the game even more unbalanced - dwarves are now even more overpowered, for example...

Like I said before, for the most part I'm focusing on lore and faction strategies rather than on balanced gameplay, which is one of the biggest drawbacks of this mod.

Recently, I consider changing hero starting skills or even specializations... ...I'm taking it too far, aren't I?

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dredknight
dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted March 25, 2015 02:40 PM

oh well that is good too.
Experiment with editing and report what new skills and feats you have created .


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Everfades
Everfades

Tavern Dweller
posted April 22, 2015 01:32 PM

Is it possible to increase the number of skills a hero can have? And the number of abilities for skills from 3 to 5 or more? I hate that I can't use most abilities from different skills because I need 3 specific abilities from that skilltree to get the ultimate or some other ability. I think I saw a mod which increased the skillcap to 8 along with some other features but I can't find it anymore. Though increasing the number of abilities per skill would be alot better. Any help?
____________

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lotihoti
lotihoti


Famous Hero
posted April 22, 2015 03:25 PM

You can Change the requirements for your ultimate abilty:

You could give the ultimate as requirements the 3 race specific abilities.... even if its extremly unbalanced

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Everfades
Everfades

Tavern Dweller
posted April 22, 2015 09:31 PM

I don't want to make getting the ultimate skill easier. I want to have the freedom of getting more than 3 abilities for each skill to be able to focus more of my level ups into it. Like having the balista manual target, first aid tent manual target, catapult manual target, ballista triple shot and plague tent ability instead of only being able to choose 3 (there is no choice alot of times due to the ultimate ability and even without those requirements I would like to get 5 instead of 3 abilities per skill)

Having 8 instead of 6 skills would give you more freedom, too. (someone did that but I can't find the mod anymore. Can someone help?) Though I would prefer 5 instead of 3 abilities per skill. On top of that this would allow us to use all levelups to upgrade skills. Normally you are maxed out at level ~30 and only receive minor upgrades. With additional ability space you could get more until you reach max level. And you could focus alot more.


If anyone knows how to allow 5 instead of 3 abilities per skill it would be MUCH appreciated!
____________

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lotihoti
lotihoti


Famous Hero
posted April 23, 2015 07:04 AM

Ah now i understand your point.
That would be extremly hard.
I think noone (except maybe Quantomas) would get that to work...

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Everfades
Everfades

Tavern Dweller
posted April 23, 2015 06:51 PM

I'm 100% sure I saw a mod which changed skills to be 8 instead of 6. But it was integrated in a larger mod it was not a mod on it's own. If I just could remember which mod it was I could reverse engineer that function. This game is still tens time better than heroes 6, especially considering simultaneous turns. If HMM 7 doesn't get simultaneous turns it will be awful, too. Why would I ever play a HMM game without simultaneous turns? Freaking insane.

Back to topic: I should have gone more in depth with this game when it was still popular. Then I might have been able to get all the changes I would have liked to see. ^^" But hey there is still a chance Quantomas will help.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted April 23, 2015 08:21 PM

The 8 skills mod is Quantomas AI 31j

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Everfades
Everfades

Tavern Dweller
posted April 24, 2015 11:50 AM
Edited by Everfades at 12:37, 24 Apr 2015.

Thanks alot. Sadly I can't figure it out how I can change the userinterface for abilities like he did with skills. For skills a forward backward page option is all you need. For 2 more abilities you would instead need to make the row longer maybe? I have no idea how to do that. Well, Quantomas if you read this PLEASE create a mod which enables 5 abilities per skill instead of 3.

Well maybe we are lucky and he really does it but I doubt it. Would be amazing though.

(Btw - I wish his mod would work in local multiplayer. It is such a good mod but I never play singleplayer.)

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