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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Era mod: Mentoring
Thread: Era mod: Mentoring This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 15, 2015 07:51 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 03:15, 16 Feb 2015.

Era mod: Mentoring

Basically this is an idea inspired from Heroes V. I have no time to test its outcomes in long games so for instance I rated it as [CHEATS] in mods list/tags. My purpose is to allow a more fluid experience chain between human player's heroes and allow to new recruits to keep up with higher ranks. There are both penalties and bonuses which will not exactly permit a "walk in the park", but both are modifiable in mentor.ini file. So you can either keep the default values, or delete the penalties and in that case, game will be indeed very easy. Up to the player.


Mentoring (1 MB)






Instructions: in Heroes meeting screen, click on:

1) if HD mod activated, quest log in left hero screen
2) if no HD mod, new button near left hero shield location
3) To bring mentors screen, press F8 key. The mentors dialog is limited top 24 heroes. If you have more, you must find them manually.

Rules:

Mentoring: the amount of experience the mentor loses when mentoring (-1 level) is entirely given to the student.


Example: Orrin is level 17 and Adelaide is level 1. When mentoring he will lose one level and become level 16. The amount of experience points between level 16 and 17 is 9433. Adelaide will receive 9433 experience and will instantly become level 7.

a) to be able to mentor, one hero must be 5 levels higher than his student

b) A hero which mentored will not be able to mentor again in the following 7 days (modifiable through mentor.ini file)

c) A hero who mentored will receive a movement penalty of 7 tiles. Each day this penalty diminishes by 1 tile (modifiable through mentor.ini file)

d) A hero receives +1 permanent movement tile for every time he/she mentored someone (modifiable through mentor.ini file)

e) A hero who is mentored receives instantly +7 tiles movement for one week (modifiable through mentor.ini file). This bonus is cumulative, with each mentor. When a hero is free for mentoring, the dialog item about bonuses an penalties will be empty. Once he is mentored, no matter how many mentors teach him and when, during that week, all the movement bonuses will stay only for one week, then fade away.

Example: Orrin is mentored first time on monday. He receives 7 extra tiles until next monday. Orrin is again mentored on friday and will receive +7 extra tiles again. As he is under the effect of mentoring already, the 14 extra tiles movement will fade away on next monday, and so on.

f) Each time a hero mentors, he/she will permanently lose one random primary skill.

g) A hero who is mentored will receive one extra primary skill for each level he was mentored with. This skill is random but depends also on the class of the mentor. From a magic mentor, he will receive either knowledge or spellpower, from a might mentor he will receive either attack or defense.

h) A hero who is under the effect of mentoring can't mentor another hero until the mentoring effect is gone.

i) Custom portraits will not be displayed in dialog.

j) Mentoring display dialog is limited to 24 heroes. If you have more, you will have to search them manually.

k) Clicking on heroes heads in mentoring dialog will allow to find them.

l) All values for bonuses and penalties are modifiable from mentor.ini file.

Reuploaded v1.2. Extra skill on level up is now disabled and selectable through mentor.ini file.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted February 15, 2015 08:00 PM
Edited by Galaad at 20:01, 15 Feb 2015.

Salamandre said:
Basically this is an idea inspired from Heroes V.

Arguably one of the best things (in the idea) from Heroes V were the racials. Sagamosa's attempt was pretty close, too bad it never got fixed. Also, dunno if possible, but Heroes V offered two abilities to choose from, on top of the two skills. But this would require creating all perks for each skill (ie, Logistics skills offers Pathfinding and Navigation as perks). Exactly what was done with Warfare in WoG when I think of it. Maybe something similar already exists? There are so many scripts out there, is hard to keep track of everything.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 15, 2015 08:23 PM

I know very little about H5, but a few things gathered my interest: mentoring and towns conversion.  What is about racials and other things you mentioned?
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted February 15, 2015 08:28 PM
Edited by Galaad at 21:02, 15 Feb 2015.

Salamandre said:
I know very little about H5, but a few things gathered my interest: mentoring and towns conversion.  What is about racials and other things you mentioned?

Town conversions actually were introduced in Heroes VI, but the feature was very poorly implemented. If I'm not mistaken, same goes for mentoring (I don't remember that feature in Heroes V, but is not impossible it was there).

About racials and Hero specialities.

About primary skills and abilities.

I suggest you to see for yourself and install Heroes V TotE/Complete and add unnoficial patch 3.1, as well as Quantomas AI.

Despite its horrible graphics, Heroes V had a very nice gameplay.
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted February 15, 2015 08:29 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 20:46, 15 Feb 2015.

You really have some prejudice with the "artifact at level up" rule. I kept my mouth shut about MoC and Adv. Pillars but these one is worst.
This even turns XXL maps possible without Trainer: when you're main surpasses level 50 or something you just go ahead and mentor someone. It is much stronger then to give some artifacts to a noob and send him to the Altar of Sacrifice to make an hero out of him.

Since you're doing it I would like to make a suggestion... it would be good (for XXL maps) to make it possible to do something with the prims. One way would be "mentor" them to others heroes.
What I was thinking before was to allow to sell them in the respective object, for instance a before trigger would ask if you wanted to sell 1 of power for x money or mithril when you visit a Star Axis, being the x dependent on the real value of the prim.
I know we already have the Overflow Fix and they can be stored without being atributed but I remember (only one time) to substitute the Necklace of Bliss by the Pendant of Courage with Expert Luck and Leadership cause with it all my prims were above 125. And you said it yourself, XXL maps tend to create heroes that overflow both levels and prims.

P.S. Do they also lose the prims and secondary skill learned last level up? Cause there is a tremendous difference betwen the two aprroaches, in case nothing else was lost and you got an extra prim from leveling up you have advantage in doing it, of course you lose the movement but the next level (and subsequent sec and probability of extra prim) are about 20% easier to get.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 15, 2015 08:38 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 20:46, 15 Feb 2015.

Artifacts at level up is for noobs. It gives a free artifact and its class is based on hero level and it ignores map restrictions, so any hero > level 20 will potentially receive tome of air. A tome costs 200 000 gold in Adventure pillars (and Air tome is banned), how is it worse?

And Master of Craft, you were the one to bicker me about adding more and more tweaks, so now you say is too easy? I was your slave for that mod.

@Galaad: thanks, already tried H5 and my interest is not enough strong to reinstall it. But borrow good ideas from, why not.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted February 15, 2015 08:50 PM
Edited by Galaad at 20:57, 15 Feb 2015.

Salamandre said:
already tried H5 and my interest is not enough strong to reinstall it.

I understand. Well let me know if you have more questions about it, although I don't know the game as well as Elvin or Alci for instance.

Edit: Oh, I forgot to link you one important thing, the skill wheel.
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted February 15, 2015 09:18 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 14:03, 16 Feb 2015.

Salamandre said:
it ignores map restrictions, so any hero > level 20 will potentially receive tome of air.


It doesn't at least nt on Era, I've been playing with it for years (I also banned fly and DD) and I never ever got a Tome of Air.

Salamandre said:
And Master of Craft, you were the one to bicker me about adding more and more tweaks, so now you say is too easy? I was your slave for that mod.


Thanks again for the effort, I'm not complainning on the contrary I want to say this: I've been trying some old WoG custom maps that add features to the game (to see more code) and the things I missed the most were your mods. You are the modder that better knows what the game is missing.

I love Master of Craft, not so much Adventure Pillars, for Shield/Prayer/Haste I prefer the Second Henchmen and for extra resources "Creature resources". What I'm saying is that they give similar value advantages to the player.
If combined with Usain Bolt this one is stronger, can solve the overflow problems in XXL maps and one experience level at very high levels can make a level 1 hero became extraordinary. Plus, if one of them has scholar he can teach all the knowed spells immediatly. This is much more effective then give him some artifacts, send him to an Altar of Sacrifice and then look for someone who can teach him the spells. Plus, you can train one noob with your 3rd hero, then with the second, then with main and get an extremely powerfull hero to sacrifice levels for a long period. After that you can only train with mains when they are too powerfull for their own sake.

I think this mod deserves a plus. If this works for AI too I'm ok with it, if not you could (maybe) actualize Conquistador. I think money and resources are already good but creature growth and prims could be increased by one point, also a x6 to neutrals growth would be fine.

P.S. And I am a noob. When I compare myself to Maretti or Gomunguls I know I don't play snow but I've managed to make a few scripts already. Thanks for the help on those ones too.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 16, 2015 03:07 AM

Some mods are made for random maps, as Conquistador, Master of Craft and Adventure pillars, but some others as Seer huts uncovered and this one are for custom maps, where AI is already putting a strong resistance.

I will do a test of TEW4 with mentors and see how it goes. I will probably remove the extra primary skill or assign it to ini file.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 17, 2015 07:29 AM

version 1.3 uploaded. Code fix.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted February 18, 2015 07:55 PM

About random maps, I have a sujestion: why don't you establish a low limit level, maybe configurable, for mentoring? If you could only mentor after, let's say level 50. That way the mod could be usefull on very large and rich random maps but not overpowered on normal.
Truth being said I only once got negative experience and it was because I was abusing a bugged Adventure Cave with the duel against crusaders but when I finished Dragon Lord I was at level 71 and 69 on Road to Victory. It's a great safety net to have this mod (or Trainer even if Trainer is Cadburry's) in XXL scenarios. I already limited the experience on this one to 72, before I even read about Mentoring but it's good to know I don't have to worry about that anymore.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 18, 2015 08:02 PM

Mod is not overpowered, I tested it, you didn't even try. Once you mentor someone, you can't mentor again for 7 days and suffer movement penalty. Then it makes not much sense to create 50 heroes level 50 because all you need is 1 to beat poor Heroes AI.

The mod is more for custom maps, it offers a different experience.
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted February 19, 2015 03:41 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 08:54, 20 Feb 2015.

Sorry, I am a bit slow. Mod is active but I only used it once, I have so many other things to test in the map (plus the codding) that I only did a dozen battles or so, never passed the first day except to test  the event taking money.
But this mod is exactly the kind of mod that fits my gameplay; my own mods and the ones I select (like Conquistador and random hero) change it in so many ways that they can hardly be considered "random maps" even if they were created by the RMG.

P.S.; Ok, you're right, is not to powerfull. Seven days is so much time to wait to mentor another hero that the one mentored is already much over the level the mentor had when he was mentored. Plus, he can't himself mentor for the same time so only seven days later I can mentor someone.
It remainds me of town convertion, looks very OP on theory but when you delay the development of a taken town for almost three weeks you really need to expect the game to last for long.

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted February 20, 2015 11:35 AM

For me town conversion would be possible, if you restrict it.

You can convert one town/castle per week. Of course the price of conversion shold grow with each conversion( the price should consider wood, ore, gold and 2 primary rare resources for each faction)

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 20, 2015 01:23 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 13:24, 20 Feb 2015.

1.4 uploaded at same link. Fixed compatibility with Igrik's custom level up mod.

bloodsucker said:
Seven days is so much time to wait

And of course, ini file can be modified and totally delete the penalty.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted February 20, 2015 01:52 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 21:28, 21 Feb 2015.

Salamandre said:
And of course, ini file can be modified and totally delete the penalty.


No, that's the good part. My map is so OP that my starting hero was already at level 44 when he was close to be out of movement, so I mentored my second (got level 37). If I could mentor someone with her as I wanted my all eight heroes would be above level 20 day 2. The penalty works fine.

(I didn't visited nothing to get those levels; fight them all the way trough starting with 4 SAs, 24 MGs and 16 Enchanters. Thanks for 5x growth).

P.S. Use it a few more times already. As I said the waiting time is it's plus, you have to think if you want to do it right now or wait till you are stronger and you can't train 8 heroes in the blink of an eye.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 21, 2015 09:34 PM

zmudziak22 said:
For me town conversion would be possible, if you restrict it.


I already used it in my map TEW4, but I was aware of map treasures, resources so I could set a rational system. The problem elsewhere is that maps can be custom or random, rich or poor, towns can have prohibited buildings or prebuilt dwellings, thus it is very difficult to write such mod and still preserve safe game-play.

But I could create a ini file where player selects the prices and the way they multiply with each town.
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted February 21, 2015 09:56 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 05:09, 22 Feb 2015.

If you're in the mood, then AI heroes converting the dwellings for their type would be good too. It's annoing to find a castle surrounded with tower dwellings and called Fallen Star...


P.S.: You forgot to low commander's level. Does this transfer takes in any account the Learning Skill?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 24, 2015 05:23 PM

No, I don't bother with commanders since they are irrelevant weak creatures and their experience system is bugged.

Updated link. Infos are more detailed now and I added a "toggle unavailable mentors" button to be able to bypass the 24 heroes limit display. So now you can see your heroes up to 48.


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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted February 28, 2015 06:28 PM

I'm playing the second map with this mod and I really fill the lack of an option to transfer primary skills in the mentoring act. Some of my older heroes have stored prims to not go over the 125 limit while the ones I mentored last have prims below 50 and my idea of selling them is pointless since I have 5 millions gold and more then one thousand of mithril.

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