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ShadowMaster
Adventuring Hero
HOMM3fan
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posted April 09, 2015 12:25 PM |
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Look, am I the only one who doesn't understand the problem here ? It's a fracking fantasy game about fracking fantasy creatures.
In my opinion, even looking at Centaurs and Harpies in a way other than "humanoids" is strange. They are not females, for god's sake ! The only "real" woman in HoMM 7 are the Guardians,and looking upon how "normal" females look in "normal" fantasy games, it is more than perfect.
Academy- no problems there, considering the Dervish from DoC and the way the Jinn look there. A welcome addition is, of course, that the Jinn are female, as are the Gargoyles (despite both being asexual in their original myths). They are also totally not sexualized.
Necropolis-Well, we have Ghosts who are almost asexual. My only problem is the fact that the Banshees are such a lower-tier unit, but that's for an other topic. And BTW, the Lamasus are also clearly female, so we have that.
Stronghold-Harpies and Centaurs-well, they are not human. They can not be seen as regular women, and as such they cannot be seen as sexualized. For really sexualized beings (even Orcs) take a look at WoW. That's what I mean with sexualized. And after all, they are part-human part-animal. As I said before, they cannot be considered human. They could be considered "furries", and even then...(I have nothing against Furries, but still...). See ? Considering them "female" is a strange thing.
Well, now, let's see what they make of Dungeon and Sylvan. I guess the latter one will have it's share of sexualized females, since Dungeon is almost completely changed into my favorite Dungeon (HoMM 3, and they had only three humanoid creatures, of which one has moved to Stronghold.). (And by the way, I am as much a battler for equal rights for women and their representation in video games as you are , but this is fracking ridiculous.)
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted April 09, 2015 03:56 PM |
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So in resume, your argument is "snow contexts das racist"?
Why does it have to be racist when zulus do wear leopard pelts? Why would it need to be to be outright told? Isnt looking at a gazelle wearing leopard clear enough to convey the message? the only reason the jaguar warrior was centered about that was because it was a reference to the real life aztec or mayan (idr) jaguar warriors
Oh, and for your information, the first black unit shown in H7 was the Sea Elf Pirate. Are you gonna say its racist now because its a robber and a killer?
Frankly i find this notion of censoring (because at the core, thats what it is) because some white people think that some *X ethniticity* people ignore contexy and might get upset loathsome. Thats why i dislike internet SJWs. Generally they are too out of focus to be of any help.
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Neovius
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 09, 2015 05:40 PM |
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GenyaArikado said:
Oh, and for your information, the first black unit shown in H7 was the Sea Elf Pirate. Are you gonna say its racist now because its a robber and a killer?
Don't give him any ideas.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted April 09, 2015 06:17 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
So let's talk about it.
I'll try.
Quote:
What do you think and what do you find troubling/great? As a nineteen year old straight white male I would also like to hear what any women has to say as I don't really have that point of view myself. Any thoughts and discussion would be great 
I'm not too attached to gender diversification in a way that I would miss or notice that much. I would, of course, find it a bit strange only have apparently males or only females in any game.
For me, regarding H7, it's neither here nor there - generally speaking, although I reserve certain judgement about units presented so far, and that also extends to male units.
Haven –
We have this guardian. Although I'm not bothered by her presence, I find her, at least in the looks, outmatched to the elite post. Some additional info on stats is needed to complete this feel. We also have the healer, that gave a better aura about female presence than I feel from the guardian. Still, in this faction I really would get rid of the big champion bloke – actually from the angel as well.
Academy –
We have a construct with female characteristics. That doesn't bother me at all. What bothers me the most is the excess of details (from all factions, actually) which are, imho, pointless. The Djinn I'm ok with as well. Would prefer, though, that it would be a monster-like thing, less human-like.
Necropolis –
The ghost-thing I'm used to see it as female since Heroes 2. Although, back then, it was much more scarier. Skeletons? Who can tell.
Stronghold –
Apparently, centaur has given some female characteristics. Don't mind at all. Harpy is supposed to be a female-like creature. It would be odd seeing otherwise.
So far, as many might have noticed, there was not a champion female unit. As there is not a small champion unit. Perhaps the old Necropolis champion is being missed by this reason, I gather. Aside that fact, I prefer more beasts and less race-oriented units. Maybe that's why I don't dwell much on gender discussions.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 09, 2015 09:21 PM |
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GenyaArikado said:
Frankly i find this notion of censoring (because at the core, thats what it is)
and now i know not to take you seriously ever again.
@ShadowMaster
I know i'm a bit extreme (especially earlier on) but i'm just trying to open up some discussion. that said, if something has human features or is half human, like the centaur, we should judge it based on those human parts. sometimes that's easier (centaur) sometimes it's very hard (cyklop).
@PandaTar
Thank you for your reply
You bring out some good points like there being no female champions. I agree that champions should mostly be beastlike or monstrous, however haven is somewhat of an exception and i find the swordmaster pretty ok. Would be nice if the angel was female though, i mean they were in h5-6.
(somewhat related, i would be fine with the harpy and angel getting reused models from h6. they were better than the new ones)
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted April 09, 2015 11:14 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
GenyaArikado said:
Frankly i find this notion of censoring (because at the core, thats what it is)
and now i know not to take you seriously ever again.
IE: I cant back my bullsnow so im gonna dismiss you and try to grab the moral highground.
If im so wrong then give a detailed explanation of what is wrong in my arguments?
Quote:
(somewhat related, i would be fine with the harpy and angel getting reused models from h6. they were better than the new ones)
and now i know not to take you seriously ever again.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted April 10, 2015 12:46 AM |
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Edited by Corribus at 00:46, 10 Apr 2015.
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GenyaArikado,
Please read the Code of Conduct, particularly the part related to provocation and bypassing the language filters. Consider this a(nother) warning.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Greenlore
Known Hero
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posted April 10, 2015 12:48 AM |
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Rakshasa92 said:
My favorite female monsters are ugly, backstabbing and powerful.
Hags, Batibats, Succubi (real form) and leave the model-women for nymphs.
I dunno where you got the info that succubis real form would be ugly(in any kind of myth).
I read that succubi weren't looking completely human in the myths(having stuff like bird talons or a snake tail),but thats not far from the modern depiction with bat wings,horns and a devils tail.
Sex with them was kinda painful and dangerous,but that doesn't mean they looked ugly.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 10, 2015 01:15 AM |
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In my opinion this is how Succubi should look like in Heroes games. It's Heroes V artwork and yet not even Heroes V pulled that off.
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That being said, I like CoH Succubi the most in the franchise - they are cute and seductive, but these were their passive traits - when it comes to their personality, they are full of confidence and character, with a smug smile violently throwing fireballs at you with the intention of roasting you alive.  What's not to love about them?
Haven females in CoH, angels and priestesses were also great - they looked 'pure' and were also kinda cute. But when they attacked... whoa boy. Streams of burning, righteous light is what one could describe as pure as well, but definitely not harmless.
Ghosts in CoH... were demented vengeful spirits, pretty much. They fulfilled their role well - even though female Ghosts became overused since, I certainly won't stop liking them in CoH.
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By the way, did you know that Priests, Djinn and Ghosts in CoH were originally male in DS release? This is one genderbend I actually really approve of - unlike some units in H7, it felt very natural and not really out of place.
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PS: Talking about women from CoH in the 'Women in Heroes' isn't really offtopic, I think?
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted April 10, 2015 01:41 AM |
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My favorite was the succubus tempress. She looked and sounded sultry but inherently wrong, like a succubus should.
For harpies my favorite was the H3 one. The gif of the harpy hags watching a cauldrom is one of the H3 images that stuck into my brain. One of the most unique designs in H3
Corribus said:
GenyaArikado,
Please read the Code of Conduct, particularly the part related to provocation and bypassing the language filters. Consider this a(nother) warning.
Track No 7 is a made up word, as far as i know but if you please i'll change it. The only thing i want to provoke is a better answer than ignoring all of my points and climbing into the metaphorical high horse based on misjudgement. You might want to check the Erwan thread for discussion about mocking and provocation
Anyway I'm waiting kiryu, tell me why are zulus racists and how am i wrong
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 10, 2015 01:51 AM |
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GenyaArikado said:
shiza is a made up word, as far as i know but if you please i'll change it.
Probably, the reason that would trip a language filter is because "shiza" is really close to how you pronounce "scheisse", the German word for crap. Except, you know, the more extreme one. That gets converted to snow by the filters.
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leiah2
Known Hero
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posted April 10, 2015 02:11 AM |
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Edited by leiah2 at 02:24, 10 Apr 2015.
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I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy. :]
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted April 10, 2015 05:05 AM |
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*Giggle* ok
leiah2]I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy. : said:
she doesnt even go here!!!!
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 10, 2015 07:01 AM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 07:02, 10 Apr 2015.
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Sligneris said:
PS: Talking about women from CoH in the 'Women in Heroes' isn't really offtopic, I think?
no, not really. got any examples? would be nice to have them here 
Anyway, i don't agree about it not feeling natural here but i sorta understand where you're coming from. Those CoH females sound pretty cool though.
leiah2 said:
I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy.
I'd like that.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted April 10, 2015 07:34 AM |
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Its funny, all of the lineups have at least one gender neutral champion.
*Celestial
*Behemoth
*Black Dragon
*Hydra
*Green Dragon
*Bone Dragon
*Grim Reaper
*Simurgh
As it is, only the lansketch(?), the cyclops and titan are outright masculine. The treant may end up looking masculine. The rest could very well females "not defined by their gender by showing their face or having boob armor". unless their voices say otherwise.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 10, 2015 11:09 AM |
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kiryu133 said:
Anyway, i don't agree about it not feeling natural here but i sorta understand where you're coming from. Those CoH females sound pretty cool though.
Well, I think it really doesn't feel natural - frankly, Heroes 7's Gargoyles and Justicars feel a bit forced to me, made this way only for the sake of having a female unit. It's not that I mind having female units, but it feels like their gender is kinda used as a gimmick.
Ultimately I think it's a shame that there aren't any CoH animations in a .gif format out there, and that the sprites within the game files are really out of order...
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 10, 2015 11:22 AM |
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Elvin said:
I am liking this thread more and more 
odd. i just started reading the page this was posted on based on arguments from the next page, and i wanted to set a flame thrower to it all.
i mean, really. the snows' ridiculous. this stuff belongs in the vw. not that my comment here matters at all to any "discussion"; i care not one whit for newer homm games. 
some of their plant graphics are good, though.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted April 10, 2015 11:33 AM |
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Edited by Maurice at 11:34, 10 Apr 2015.
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leiah2 said:
I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy.
That's light enough stuff to make one float! Can you ever eat enough of it?
GenyaArikado said:
As it is, only the lansketch(?), the cyclops and titan are outright masculine.
Landsknecht. It's a contraction of "Land" and "knecht", the latter really meaning servant or aid. Literally, a "Landsknecht" is someone who serves the land (or the lord who owns that land, to be more precise).
I think "knecht" is a word that is only really used in Germany and the Netherlands, though, and the Dutch speaking part of Belgium; I don't think it's really used in any other language that has its origin in the Germanic languages of old.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 10, 2015 11:45 AM |
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Sligneris said:
Well, I think it really doesn't feel natural - frankly, Heroes 7's Gargoyles and Justicars feel a bit forced to me, made this way only for the sake of having a female unit. It's not that I mind having female units, but it feels like their gender is kinda used as a gimmick.
you kinda nailed my problem with haven. It comes up when you differentiate the only female unit from the rest by lifting up the female part but not lifting up the male ones. for example everyone hides their face except the justicar (and swordmaster) which singles her out as special because of her gender. this would not be an issue if the rest of the lineup showed their faces
completely disagree with the gargoyle: i find her fitting in perfectly.
Sligneris said:
Ultimately I think it's a shame that there aren't any CoH animations in a .gif format out there, and that the sprites within the game files are really out of order...
aww, too bad.
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leiah2
Known Hero
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posted April 10, 2015 12:19 PM |
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@GenyaArikado: No... I just have a lot of feelings... (sniff) xD
@Maurice: I could it eat it forever :3
Well sorry for going off-topic like that. but I think that most female units in MMH7 are good so far, I absolutely love the Cenaurs, but I feel like they would be even better if they had some armor over their gazelle backs. To protect against projectiles.
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This thread is pages long: 
