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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 12, 2015 11:04 AM |
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Was there an official retcon? I haven't heard much of it, actually.
I'd say his relationship with Fiona was less about pure manipulation (even if he did use that moment to get her to attack Ludmilla), but more about using her favour, once he became her councillor in the Empire.
She did know that he was a necromancer, after all. Not only that, I can actually imagine her reanimating a skeleton once or twice as an Empress. These necromantic abilities were most likely kept as a secret between Markal, Fiona and Godric - a secret that Godric probably wasn't very content with.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 12, 2015 03:03 PM |
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Avonu said:
It wasn't.
I really don't like retcon of Markal's story in CoH
Sandro400 said:
Oh, ok, I exaggerate. Maybe Sandro planned all this from the start (he took over Ludmilla and ruled Heresh, btw) or he just used the opprtunity that presented itself.
Gimme a break, I'm Sandro-fan after all, I like to exaggerate him 
P.S.: what retcon are you talking about? I haven't heard about any retcon to Markal's story.
____________
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 12, 2015 03:51 PM |
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You know, in hindsight it's kind of amusing how Azh Rafir was portrayed as the Big Bad of Clash of Heroes, while in reality, Kha-Beleth probably observed all of his movements in attempt to use his achievements and ambitions for his own goal - more than likely once Azh Rafir would destroy the walls of Sheogh, Kha-Beleth would rid of him before the wizard could claim the credit for his own labors.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 12, 2015 04:17 PM |
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Sligneris said:
You know, in hindsight it's kind of amusing how Azh Rafir was portrayed as the Big Bad of Clash of Heroes, while in reality, Kha-Beleth probably observed all of his movements in attempt to use his achievements and ambitions for his own goal - more than likely once Azh Rafir would destroy the walls of Sheogh, Kha-Beleth would rid of him before the wizard could claim the credit for his own labors.
If Azh-Rafir succeded in becoming the 8th Dragon, I doubt Kha-Beleth would've been able to get rid of him ^_^ At least not so easily.
+ AFAIK Kha-Beleth is a demon, and, theoretically, he must obey the Blade of Binding which would've been in the possession of Azh-Rafir.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 12, 2015 04:21 PM |
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Well, Azh Rafir's plan on large part relied on Urgash listening to his prayer and fulfilling it. I wouldn't expect Urgash to just go out of his way to give a puny wizard such blessing, considering he never even really cared much for his demon children.
Not to mention that when it comes to the Blade of Binding, by then the Demon Sovereign had Agrael at his disposal. ^__^
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 12, 2015 04:33 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Well, Azh Rafir's plan on large part relied on Urgash listening to his prayer and fulfilling it. I wouldn't expect Urgash to just go out of his way to give a puny wizard such blessing, considering he never even really cared much for his demon children.
Not to mention that when it comes to the Blade of Binding, by then the Demon Sovereign had Agrael at his disposal. ^__^
That's why I said "if"  Urgash himself doesn't care so much, I woudldn't call that a criteria.
I doubt Agrael alone could've withstand hordes of Demons at Azh-Rafor's disposal... but point taken.
What I'm curious is why Kha-Beleth didn't intevrvene. It's hard to beleive he didn't know about Azh-Rafir's machinations.
____________
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 12, 2015 04:45 PM |
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Well, there was this demon portal on the top floor of the Gemstone Spire appearing exactly at the time when Bloodmoon Eclipse was supposed to occur, dragging Azh Rafir to Sheogh... 
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted March 12, 2015 04:48 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 16:52, 12 Mar 2015.
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This eclipse IIRC was artifical created (by Blade of Binding) and demons can be summoned by wizards or other powerful mages (or by using powerful artifacts or by a lot of Dragon Blood Crystals).
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 12, 2015 04:54 PM |
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That doesn't prevent him from knowing about it and preparing for it. Still, as much as I like CoH and take it as seriously as possible, I never really understood its eclipse lore. How do you force an eclipse? How do you cancel one? It sounds a little bit ridiculous.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted March 12, 2015 05:00 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 17:00, 12 Mar 2015.
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Sligneris said:
How do you force an eclipse? How do you cancel one? It sounds a little bit ridiculous.
It less ridiculous then not knowing when will be next eclipse on the world with only one moon (at least in H5 we had 3 moons - but that was retconned), as accelerating 2nd eclipse by 3 years (by Sarah and Blade of Binding) or as not having full moon eclipse each year. 
All these lore with Bloodmoon Elcipses is... not done so well (at least by now). Just try don't to think about it too hard - it's magic.
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 12, 2015 05:24 PM |
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Well, the Bloodmoon Eclipse requires Ashan, its sun and its moon to be located in one line, with the moon being behind Ashan, isolated from the sun's light... so this might not be a common setting, depending on how the solar system is set up.
It mostly depends on how the moon moves around Ashan... but I don't understand why it's so irregular. Usually it took 2-3 centuries, but then, Fifth and Sixth eclipse are set apart by mere 18 years...
The myth of creation states that at the beginning there was only Void and Magic, so I like to think that stars are giant, concentrated spheres of magical energy - it would also explain why it limits Asha's power - she cut from the source of this energy.
Actually, why is it called Bloodmoon Eclipse, if the moon is covered by Ashan, thus completely dark, not visible? There's no moon to be bloody in these moments...
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 12, 2015 05:28 PM |
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Avonu said:
This eclipse IIRC was artifical created (by Blade of Binding)
Nah, it was natural.
Sligneris said:
Actually, why is it called Bloodmoon Eclipse, if the moon is covered by Ashan, thus completely dark, not visible? There's no moon to be bloody in these moments...
Because the sky gets reddish like blood. And don't ask me why 
____________
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 12, 2015 05:35 PM |
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Well, it could be that eclipse in 929 YSD was somehow "postponed" by Nadia until 951 YSD... Which would mean the original break between eclipses was supposed to be 60 years... which is still strangely short, but at least not absurdly so.
Honestly, the way these eclipses get more and more frequent feels more like it's demon prison weakening with time rather than like an astrological occurrence.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 12, 2015 05:41 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Well, it could be that eclipse in 929 YSD was somehow "postponed" by Nadia until 951 YSD... Which would mean the original break between eclipses was supposed to be 60 years... which is still strangely short, but at least not absurdly so.
It was postponed
My theory is that the eclipses happen more brief with the passing of time (well, they actually do). Closer to Dark Messiah coming, more Eclipses.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 12, 2015 05:46 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
My theory is that the eclipses happen more brief with the passing of time (well, they actually do). Closer to Dark Messiah coming, more Eclipses.
Official timeline said:
330 YSD - First Eclipse
564 YSD - Second Eclipse
717 YSD - Third Eclipse
843 YSD - Forth Eclipse
929 YSD - (postponed)
951 YSD - Fifth Eclipse
969 YSD - Sixth Eclipse
Sounds about right.
You know, I'm still confused about another thing. The Demons were sealed in 40 YSD, but the Dark Messiah takes place in 989 YSD. That leaves 950 years between these events... and yet, Sheogh is prophesied to stand 10 centuries. Does this mean that even if Sareth decides to destroy the walls of Sheogh now, he won't be able to do so?
To be honest, Dark Messiah is strange game. There should be literally armies involved and yet, we're just one dude with a sword. Then, we kill a powerful necromancer, and decide fate of the whole universe with a tip of the hat, as it literally requires us to just choose which place to go. Before that, we got to choose between two girls openly seeking attention of the player character. Right.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 12, 2015 06:08 PM |
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Sligneris said:
You know, I'm still confused about another thing. The Demons were sealed in 40 YSD, but the Dark Messiah takes place in 989 YSD. That leaves 950 years between these events... and yet, Sheogh is prophesied to stand 10 centuries. Does this mean that even if Sareth decides to destroy the walls of Sheogh now, he won't be able to do so?
To be honest, Dark Messiah is strange game. There should be literally armies involved and yet, we're just one dude with a sword. Then, we kill a powerful necromancer, and decide fate of the whole universe with a tip of the hat, as it literally requires us to just choose which place to go. Before that, we got to choose between two girls openly seeking attention of the player character. Right.
Prophecies are known to be rather relative. So not "exactly 10 centuries" but "approximately 10 centuries".
Hmm, there is Necro army and Stonehelm army. Why do you think there shoud be armies involved?
I see nothing wrong in the things you described.
____________
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 12, 2015 06:12 PM |
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Well, I suppose it's just weird that it took everyone 20 years. It took 20 years to attack Stonehelm, it took 20 years to find the Skull of Shadows.
It took 20 years and Raelag didn't even arrive yet. I'm really, really confused about what took them so long.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 12, 2015 07:12 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Well, I suppose it's just weird that it took everyone 20 years. It took 20 years to attack Stonehelm, it took 20 years to find the Skull of Shadows.
It took 20 years and Raelag didn't even arrive yet. I'm really, really confused about what took them so long.
Arantir started looking for the Skull only in 972. It took Menelag decades to locate the Skull, + he used documents long thought destroyed. Actually, he received huge help from his Demon "colleagues".
Raelag may had chasing another possible leads. Or he may have died ^_^
____________
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted March 12, 2015 07:23 PM |
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Now I have questions:
1. I think I read long ago that there were 7 Dark Elves clans (and we know only 3 of them). Anyone remember anything about this or I remember this information wrong?
2. Raelag was from Soulscar Clan, same as "Shadya", Sylsai and Thralsai. Ylaya was from Shadowbrand. From which clans were (or to which clans were associated) Menan and Sorshan?
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted March 12, 2015 07:44 PM |
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@Avonu:
I am not sure about the first one but Menan is from Nightshard Clan and Sorshan is from Shadowbrand.
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This thread is pages long: 
