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| Thread: The bottom of everything |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 03, 2015 11:09 AM |
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Reminds me that the only reason I ever returned to Heroes 3 after Heroes 4 was because I spend ~6 months making a map there. Funny to think if I'd never build that map I'd perhaps never have signed up here.
Anyway I think the ability to choose between 2D vs 3D is a good suggestion. In chess on the machine, one often gets to pick between 2D and 3D, and while 3D looks more impressive, I have a much easier time when playing on a 2D board.
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Living time backwards
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 03, 2015 11:36 AM |
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Same here and most people who regularly play chess (although, I dont anymore) are like that. I also suggested optional view for Heroes but then I thought, this is not chess, as long as the 3D option is there, maps will be much smaller and full of less content. I dont know, maybe the new generation machines with all their GB spaces and faster rams changed that...
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Nitramar
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 05:58 PM |
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Are there any strategy games that offer both a 3D and a 2D mode (with both modes having all the same features)? I only know of Civ5's 'strategic mode' (2D) but it is quite limited.
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draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 10:31 PM |
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I chose not to play Heroes 5 for one simple reason.
The AI turns took forever.
There is a patch out there that resolves this issue, but I was turned off by the time I found it.
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BelgarathMTH
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 08, 2015 11:30 PM |
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Hi, I recently did a replay of HoMM3 RoE followed by AB, and now I've started replaying HoMM5, so this issue is fresh on my mind.
I'm noticing all kinds of things that I really like about HoMM5 as opposed to the 150 hours or so I just spent on HoMM3. For one, I really like the flybys with the camera in the town screens. It's rather thrilling to see the town grow from a backwater village with the plainest of castles and only a smattering of housing and farming, to a teeming metropolis with a central city-state castle with walls and architecture that would be the zenith of a fantasy civilization's dreams.
I am also finding massive convenience in the town screen radial menus as compared to the HoMM3 way of doing things. It's not that one is necessarily better than the other, but, when I play the two games so close together, after spending a huge amount of time on HoMM3 and then going straight into HoMM5, I am appreciating a plethora of things that can be done more easily.
As for gameplay speed, I just turn all the option sliders up close to maximum settings, and the whole game plays much faster than HoMM3. There is no slowdown in AI turn times. Those who have experienced such a thing must have older computers with comparatively weak processor speeds.
I don't know, I am starting to agree with the OP of this thread, minus the dramatic emotional phrasing. I love all the HoMM games, and MM as well, and I think all of them have something really great to offer.
I would agree with the OP that there is a good chance that the established HoMM community never really gave HoMM5 a fair chance. This was also the case with HoMM4. All of the editions have variations on gameplay, style, and aesthetics, giving each edition its own charm and magic. I still like to play HoMM1 sometimes, because I think it's got its own "je ne sais quoi" special quality that none of the other editions ever recaptured, and the same for HoMM2, both forwards and back.
As for the comparison of difficulty between HoMM3 and HoMM5, especially with the map designs and AI qualities, I find that, as a single player who is not interested in multiplayer play, I vastly prefer HoMM5. For one thing, I can let the AI handle combat for me in cases where my army is superior. It knows to leave my clustered melee troops standing in place to protect my ranged troops, and it does everything it can to avoid taking first strike, unlike the unbelievably stupid HoMM3 AI that rushes everything you have away from your ranged units, begging to commit suicide and take first strike.
Further, as I played further into the expansion maps of HoMM3, I began to see that "difficulty" was more achieved by map design that favored the enemy in many "unfair" ways (one-way portal placement, resource placement, external structure placement, starting enemy superhero unearned army, etc.) than in any actual good AI design. All the "difficulty" seemed very artificial to me, sometimes frustratingly so, such that I needed to study some "Let's Play" video, or else lose several times and learn why, (that is, use metaknowledge and "cheese" to win after many restarts), than on any actual player skill on my part.
So, bottom line for me, each version from 1-5, (haven't played 6 or 7 yet, but I probably will eventually), has its own ins and outs and its own special "magic".
I think a lot of the disconnect between the various HoMM community groups may have to do with the usual things that divide gamers - single player needs vs. multi player needs, roleplaying vs. hack'n'slash powergaming, aesthetic tastes such as isometric preference vs. 3D preference, etc., etc. ad nauseum.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted March 09, 2015 02:01 AM |
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A possible reason? I've been following along everyone's comments and I wonder if something that might contribute to a players preference to an HoMM game is impacted somewhat by the total number of games and type of games that a person plays?
Here's what I'm getting at; I play very few games and never have. But since my AoK's days, I have always played HoMM until H6. When H5 came out I was turned off by my PC's inability to run the game and waited; only now with my present system does the game run well and look amazing. The adventure map in 3D just draws me in. I love the smoke, "crackling" fire, elevations, etc. Zooming in and out? Not a problem. Hard to find stuff? Good there too.
But here's the deal; I do zero games that have that stuff. Nada. I'm not playing a steady stream of new FPS and RPGs that are all dancing that way.
H5 enhanced my beloved HoMM world with environments that I visit nowhere else because I go few other places. I certainly see nothing like it playing HoI3.<L>
Btw, H2 is probably the best experience I ever had but that cannot be recreated for me. The new H5  sorta fills the bill now. Cheers all.
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BelgarathMTH
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 09, 2015 02:36 AM |
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@Markkur, very insightful post. I wish we had "like", "agree", and "insightful" approval buttons to click here like on the Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition forums. 
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted March 09, 2015 03:23 PM |
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BelgarathMTH said:
@Markkur, very insightful post. I wish we had "like", "agree", and "insightful" approval buttons to click here like on the Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition forums.
Thanks. I wouldn't be surprised if Val gets there, he's been showing a lot of tlc lately. 
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted March 09, 2015 04:59 PM |
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markkur said:
Btw, H2 is probably the best experience I ever had but that cannot be recreated for me. The new H5 sorta fills the bill now. Cheers all.
Likewise. Even after all these years, this is the one that still instills a unique experience. H4 I find the most fun to play. H5 is ok, similar in lines and taste as I feel towards H3. H5 though, in my point of view, things started to get stranded to what I refer to myself as: the generation of graphic waste. Don't get me wrong. I like visuals, but only when they are truly needed. When I was still playing H3, I remember thinking and imagining how cool 3D townscreens would be. When they were finally there, I thought again: cool, but why again? Nothing to add, really. This is the feel coming since H5, which in H6, coupled with their complete failure to make a game, only intensified and it lingers in H7 - in a council where they post artworks and screenshots, showing only visuals (as if it was the most important thing ever - I do know people will buy it only due that, and I'm glad it's not my money) while we (others like me, I mean) are left to confabulate and speculate every single mechanic aspects. Specially because they don't explain anything properly. I fear the game will not have any meaningful game play depth, another dumbed down work. With fancy graphics, yes.
That's only my current view. It can change. But I hardly believe that. Hope is a lenience I'm not really willing to spend on H7 much more.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted March 09, 2015 11:08 PM |
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When it comes to graphics and 2d/3d, I must say that, while some creatures were improved in H4 (The cyclops for instance) others just got...wierd. On the go I can think of the Vampire and Devil.
Now the vampires were turned from a mindless scary old "things" into Count Dracula wannabes, the concept was not all bad, but it made vampires lose the "scary" aspect and the only remaining fright for them came from their insane combat mechanic and growth (with Necromancy aswell).
But the devils. Of all that is unholy - what the hell happened to them?
The satanic-looks, the symbols, the skulls, the scythe and the horns - all was lost! The new devil model was terrible if you ask me.
While I do know that the Devil is commonly shown wearing a trident, the merging with the arm was a bit too much. (Even the H4 Imp reminded me more of the devil /sigh). The armor looked like it would have been made for a do-good knight, not for a creature to represent hell.
Overall the new model makes me think of "Frick" from the movie "Merlin", who is quite not supposed to be the "devil"...
And what did H5 do? Build on this broken concept.
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markmasters
Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
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posted March 16, 2015 07:48 AM |
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I loved homm 5. But after soms time they waiting became endless when ai had to take a turn....homm3 is faster and therefore more enjoyable imo
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hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted March 16, 2015 12:37 PM |
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BelgarathMTH said:
@Markkur, very insightful post. I wish we had "like", "agree", and "insightful" approval buttons to click here like on the Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition forums.
Well, I actually rather not see this forum implement such social features. The issue lies in that such 'voting' can influence the reader before he soberly makes up the mind of his own. In the worse case of a simple plus-minus voting system, it can also be used to oppress a minority opinion/argument. It's also simply too easy to cast a vote instead of reasoning as to why you e.g. find something agreeable or insightful - or why you don't.
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted March 22, 2015 07:07 PM |
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If you ask me,here is more exactly what ALMOST ALL the comunity will say:
Heroes 1,and maybe 2,where a launcher to Heroes 3,while the other Heroes where just expansions.They just have better graphics,and maybe a few more castles,creatures etc. ,but the game itself hasn't changed.Heroes III is awsome,and the most able to be modded,the first magic game launched in the whole earth (excepting the predecessors),right with a second until other games like Starcraft,Warcraft appeared.
I am sure that peoples will still love H3,and that's the reason why they would play even other Heroes.
For example Heroes III was a cool game for me ,while i played it likely 8 years,then i just started to be a bit bored.Searched a bit and found the Campaign and the Map Editor.Finally i did managed to find that HoTA,witch was an expansion,just like other Heroes (4-8) was PRETTY AWSOME.So when you defend the Heroes V (witch is only an expansion),it's like you defend the top of an towe like Burj-Dubai,but not the base.
Without a base many buildings could fall,so do the Heroes Games.
SO RESPECT HEROES III.
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Saurya
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 02, 2015 08:19 AM |
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Edited by Saurya at 08:24, 02 May 2015.
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I did not have any form of internet available the last two months, so I'm reading all these posts now.
The last post was probably good enough for enticing me into my old habit of arguing. I never said that I disrespect H3. I respect H1 more than anything. I respect Charles Babbage, Newton, Ohm, everyone responsible for today. Except myself.
I have a lot more to say, but for now I'll just sum it up.
If you really like the base that much, why did you even play H3? Wasn't H1 the base to H2 which led to H3?
The Jewish rebels defended Jerusalem from the top of the walls, before their stupid idea of tunneling under the walls. I have no idea of that sort. They could never have matched against roman infantry if they tried to fight the roman miners outside the walls.
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Hourglass
Famous Hero
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posted June 09, 2015 06:40 AM |
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I happen to own heroes 3, 4 and 5 and have already have some discussions with friends about which of them is the best.
I'm going to be honest here - I'm a heroes 3 guy. It just something that fascinated when I was kid, and I still find myself going back to it. I've played heroes 4 and 5 a lot also, but seems that I still prefer homm 3 over those. Okay, here's my points:
2d > 3d
Some games are turn amazing when you turn them form 2d to 3d. Some games don't. Heroes of might and magic series works- from my point of view - better if left in the 2d stage.
In h3 you can see adventure map clearly with just one look at it, but in h5 you find yourself constantly turning the camera. You can zoom out, but then the objects turn into blur and the game turns laggy if you don't have decent pc.
Fights turn more epic in 3d, you can see the shooting animation from missile's point of view, which is kinda cool. But then again, when you have seen that effect countless of times, it gets old. Also, when you're fighting againts a stack of imps guarding a sawmill, you just want to the battle to end quickly - in the lesser fights the 3d just slows the game. And let's face it, you will have much more lesser fights than big battles.
So, overall 3d makes things go much slower than in "plain" 2d h3.
AI is painfully slow
This has always bothered me.In h5 it is already irritating when playing against couple of AI players, but when you play with multiple bots, the turns go sooo slow. Especially if you don't have anything special to do on your turn (you just build and moved heroes) I great part of your overall game time goes for waiting the AI to finish his turn. In h3, there's basically no waiting.
There's not much going on in the adventure map
IIRC no one has yet to point this one out, but this has always been an issue for me: If I create a random map in h3, I can expect that there will be some "free" pick able resources on the ground. I can also expect that I can visit some minor map objects with no fighting at all. This makes exploring the map fun with multiple heroes.
This is not the case in h5. There are very very few free resources, and you must fight pretty much for every mine, sawmill and even learning stone. One could argue that "you should fight to get stuff" and "those two games can't be compared this way" but I can only tell what I prefer. H3 takes the cake here.
Replayability
In h5, you have 6 towns and both expansions add one more making it a total of 8 playable towns. H3 has 8 towns by default and AB adds one more.
I don't personally like Conflux, so things are pretty even in this case, but how about fan made mods?
If I'm correct, H5 mods doesn't really have anything compared to WOG. Also there's multiple other mods that have kept players' interest in the h3 for all these years. And now there's even HotA, that can't be even described as a mod - it's a high quality, fan made expansion adding even another town and multiple other features and bugfixes with a promise of "more to come."
I found homm 5's skill system better than homm 3's one and one could say a word about homm 3's mass spells. However, the skill system is not enough to take the cake from h3.
Summa summarum homm5 is a great game, but h3 being slightly better. And trust me, it's not a shame -at all- to be "second best" at something when compared to homm3.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 09, 2015 05:12 PM |
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Hello hourglass, all your issues with H5 have been fixed  : faster AI, extended RAM fix, 30 new adventure objects, might magic classes, advanced town portal, RMG with amount of stuff on the ground slider etc. etc. etc. Link
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MMH5.5 Downloads | MMH5.5 Translations | MMH5.5 FAQ
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Saurya
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 27, 2015 11:08 AM |
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HOMM works better in 2d... Good observation, I must say! I do have to use my arrow keys a lot in H5, but I'm used to it after playing RTS games. Playing a turn-based game, I'm usually prepared for long waiting times, so the AI turns hardly bother me. Might and Magic classes are one huge advantage H3 has over H5, but TotE alternate upgrades more than make it up for me.
By the Way, Great job on that Mod!
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 27, 2015 01:33 PM |
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Quote:
I do have to use my arrow keys a lot in H5
I never use arrow keys in H5, holding down right mouse rotates the camera! Strangely this function was removed in H6. For me 3d is easily as playable as 2d because of the RM rotation, without it 3d is annoying.
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MMH5.5 Downloads | MMH5.5 Translations | MMH5.5 FAQ
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LightAvatarX
Known Hero
Water,Earth,Fire,Air
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posted June 27, 2015 06:11 PM |
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I do not know what you say,but every friend I know who play this game + me are sure that Heroes V is the best.Tribes of the East beat Heroes III and smashed it into pieces.
I have made and poll in shadow council and 42% voted Heroes V.33% Heroes II and 24% the other games.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 27, 2015 06:26 PM |
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LightAvatarX said:
I do not know what you say,but every friend I know who play this game + me are sure that Heroes V is the best.Tribes of the East beat Heroes III and smashed it into pieces.
I have made and poll in shadow council and 42% voted Heroes V.33% Heroes II and 24% the other games.
Well the Shadow Council is a bad place to do such things.
Anyway, as much as I enjoyed H5, it felt something was missing. I could understand people were frustrated with vanilla: probably bugs, or time for loading turns or townscreens, but these feel like minor issues. Being said, if H6 was a much better game, it would at least improve what H5 lacked.
But in general, it felt H5 had a Warcraft feel. Probably due to 3D visuals and those graphics. H6 and H7 feel less like it, but the feeling is still present.
Perhaps the best way to ditch this "feeling" is just to have the game in 2D. Less costly, maybe the devs would feel it as return to retro style.
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