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| Thread: H7 Hero Specials |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 18, 2015 08:24 PM |
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H7 Hero Specials
The trend of specials that boost creature growth is beginning to worry me for the following reasons:
1) You have no reason whatsoever to pick those heroes as main. You just buy them and your army growth is increased.
2) They offer absolutely nothing to the gameplay. Back in the day Laszlo had the most bad@ss vindicators ever, Klaus' cavaliers were the best at jousting, Irina's unupgraded griffins had battle dive. Playing a hero specialist was different from playing any other hero, the impact was felt.
3) I find them boring. Compare to Helmar's chance for righteous might whenever you cast a buff, Eruina's witches chance to attack the target of your destructive, Lethos' starting decay, Inga's chance to learn a rune at level ups, Zoltan's chance to block enemy spells in the spellbook, Alastor's mindreaver.. Even skill specials like Mephala's armourer or Thorgrim's resistance gave some character, made them true skill specialists. They were not a passive boost but kept improving as your hero did and that made them cool. It made those heroes stand out from the rest.
4) Just how many heroes will each faction have? I do not remember about H6 but H5 did not exactly have a wealth of heroes and we already have 3 heroes that are suited for secondary. If the number of heroes is low this could be bad, I'd rather the secondary heroes be a minority. It's bad when you play random faction/hero.
What do you think?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 18, 2015 08:28 PM |
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 18, 2015 08:34 PM |
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yeah, i don't like it either. i mean i get why, balance is a pain, but it lacks personality. h5 was pretty great in giving heroes a ton of personality through abilities however some were clearly better than others and balance was certainly a nightmare. i think h3 is a better model since, yeah, it's a bit boring, but at least some heroes improved their creatures rather than just getting more of them. it wasn't as much personality as h5, but there was some unlike h6, maybe h7 (we'll see).
that said... Tyris as a secondary? How very much dare you!?
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted March 18, 2015 08:41 PM |
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Stevie said:
I'm trying to keep positive: placeholder specializations.
Same
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 18, 2015 08:42 PM |
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Personally, until now, I had very big hopes for Heroes 7, but if specializations don't improve, I might be able to enjoy plot alone.
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted March 18, 2015 08:42 PM |
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Stevie said:
I'm trying to keep positive: placeholder specializations.
Same
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 18, 2015 08:48 PM |
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They wouldn't announce a placeholder special.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted March 18, 2015 08:59 PM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 21:00, 18 Mar 2015.
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I agree that these specials are rather lackluster though to be quite honest we have seen only four heroes so far.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 18, 2015 09:06 PM |
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Elvin said:
They wouldn't announce a placeholder special.
Funny, that is a very explicit disclaimer on the page.
If anything, I consider them to be: "Indications of things to come".
I.E. Tyris will be a "legacy" Hero for hire with a special concerning Cavaliers and Cuirassiers. We're working with creature-growth for the time being cause that's easy, but that's subject/likely to change as we move into beta and actually start testing balance.
Not exactly the same as placeholder, but it comes close. Trying to see silver linings on the clouds.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 18, 2015 09:09 PM |
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Elvin said:
They wouldn't announce a placeholder special.
Quote:
Keep in mind all of this is still work in progress, especially the class attributions and specializations.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted March 18, 2015 09:11 PM |
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They could just have left the specialization's names( i.e Cavalry Officer, Spellweaver) without the explanations and keep us in suspense, no?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 18, 2015 09:13 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 21:18, 18 Mar 2015.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 18, 2015 09:20 PM |
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just try not to rage too much.
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted March 18, 2015 09:40 PM |
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I totally agree with Elvin. I was kinda surprised to see such "uncreative" (for the lack of a beter word) specs.
I'd also add: totally useless in duels to the list
Elvin said:
4) I do not remember about H6
10 per faction (dont know about Dungeon) + you can customize your multiplayer heroes
kiryu133 said:
i mean i get why, balance is a pain
yep balancing is very time consuming (= expensive)
another reason might be to simplify the game. You don't need to learn the specs of such hero when you play against since it has no impact on battles
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 18, 2015 09:47 PM |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 18, 2015 10:17 PM |
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Quote:
Keep in mind all of this is still work in progress, especially the class attributions and specializations.
That is a given but the direction seems clear and this is something that should not have made it past the planning stage imo. I had the same complaints back in H6 for the exact same reasons.
But even a + x grown specialist would make sense as a main if he started with a specialized army(See H3 Shakti that started with an army of troglodytes or Bron that started with 5 basilisks) and gained +1 to its target unit's grown every x levels. That way you would have to invest in them to get the creature bonus and I'd be happy with that. I remember that H6 guy that gave +2 mizu kami per week turning their max growth from 6 to 8. You increased their base growth by 33% just by hiring him, plain cheap..
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted March 18, 2015 10:46 PM |
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What I am hoping for is that they capitalize on the three areas they've defined as Hero strengths: Combat, Economy and Magic. I'd like to see Hero specials in each faction for each of those three areas - and preferably specials that grow along with the Hero. A static special that is equally effective from level 1 through level 30 is rather unimaginative and has the downside that they will drop off lategame, or be overpowered early game.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted March 18, 2015 11:01 PM |
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Edited by PandaTar at 23:06, 18 Mar 2015.
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Regarding that number 1, I'm not sure if that works that way. Marzhin said at SC:
Quote:
For those fearing about Heroes with creature production specializations being forced to stay in town, H7 features a Governor system similar to the one seen in Heroes IV -- you assign a Hero to be the Governor of a specific town and its Area of Control will benefit from the hero's specialization and other economic skills, even if the Hero is not present in the town 
My understanding concludes that you sign one hero to have such bonuses upon a town, as a governor. Other heroes with those bonuses are ignored. Which means: don't hire them because they'll be somewhat useless - considering specialization.
Not to mention they WOULD be useless in maps with no Haven town in it.
LizardWarrior said:
They could just have left the specialization's names( i.e Cavalry Officer, Spellweaver) without the explanations and keep us in suspense, no?
That made me chuckle. 
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 18, 2015 11:06 PM |
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That doesn't dispel my concerns. You could assign the secondary hero as governor for the bonus and the special would still work for your starting town so..
I cannot claim that I know more than you do on the matter but what I see makes me feel uneasy. I am hoping for the best but if we don't voice our concerns now it might be too late to change them in the future.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted March 18, 2015 11:09 PM |
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Of course it wouldn't dispel! It's even worse than simple cumulative bonuses.
They should have bonuses which could have use in any instances and maps. These increased production bonuses - apart from taking away some building in town functionality they could explore - are strictly related to town-faction consistency. If they are not present, you have a mule with skills under your command.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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