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Heroes Community > Tavern of the Rising Sun > Thread: The Bodybuilding and Training Thread
Thread: The Bodybuilding and Training Thread This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
PandaTar
PandaTar


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posted April 09, 2015 04:29 PM

The Bodybuilding and Training Thread

Hello there.

First of all, I want to make it clear that this is not a thread which will describe the absolute truth or where you'll find miraculous diet or routines made specially for you. Nor I'll be here creating and prescribing your routines, or detailing diets or supplements for you (I may talk about some of them in a holistic sense). I offer help, as long as you are committed enough to be responsible for your own ventures on that path and never take anything for granted, nor be clumsy about your health.

Each being has different responses to certain exercises and dieting. The recipe is not universal. If it was, everyone would look just about the same under the same regime.

I will describe part of my experience in this matter and some things I tested in these 14 years of training. Exercises I found out really good, others I wouldn't suggest, but again, it's a very personal matter. I implore you: before going rogue and performing or testing anything you read here, find and look for more information about it, ask your instructor - if you have any - about it, or nutritionist, but avoid doing these things in spite of yourself. Try watching videos or read about other people experience on that subject. Opinions will differ in scale in all topics discussed hereon in. But the most important thing to keep in mind is: there is not only a single recipe for your goal.

Before moving on, I would like to know, for those who are interested in this topic, about things you would like to discuss, in addition to what I'll tell from my experience. Before long, I'll return and tell my story.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
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DagothGares
DagothGares


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posted April 09, 2015 05:20 PM

Man, I'm probably interested in anything that you'd find relevant to share.
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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 09, 2015 05:37 PM
Edited by artu at 17:39, 09 Apr 2015.

And I'm probably uninterested in all of them.

Seriously though, no offense but I think a healthy, average body looks perfectly fine unlike the body-building type which looks overblown (pun intended) and irritating. If it's not directly about the brawn, I have no idea why someone would want to look like that. That part of the story can be interesting though, if you care to share.
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blizzardboy
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posted April 09, 2015 05:46 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 18:12, 09 Apr 2015.

The increased sex appeal and stronger physique for random tasks/chores are nice, but the primary benefit of any type of athletics is towards your psychological profile. What you're really building is mental tenacity and routine. School administrators don't encourage athletics in schools because it give the kid a taut calf.

Contrary to a few inaccurate stereotypes still floating around, athletes/bodybuilders get better grades, have better graduation rates, and more stable careers.
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PandaTar
PandaTar


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posted April 09, 2015 05:52 PM
Edited by PandaTar at 17:55, 09 Apr 2015.

I cannot impress upon you what bodybuilders, those who compete, think. I stated in another thread that I like, as an amateur, as an activity to find out my limitations, out of curiosity and because I like the activity.

Bodybuilding is not something to look beautiful, basically because beauty is really subjective. There you have your opinion that you find bodybuilders even irritating (I wonder why, actually, but I won't ask why), while I know women who like big guys, even those who seem about to blow up. Also know people who don't find that attractive, and others who don't care. Bodybuilding is a presentation, in different levels of judgment. Some of them judge massiveness with symmetries, other judge definition. There are many categories and many rules. If one finds that beautiful or not, it's up to debate. Each one is motivated in a different way to be on stage. I know some people who compete and with, perhaps one exception, all the rest are people who are not there to appease their ego (which may be caressed in many different ways also, as you know). At least not in a way that it would primarily drive their lives in first place.

From my part, I do because I like, not to show off. I'm also pretty much against those who are experienced to behave in a daunting way towards beginners, as if they weren't worth of being there, as if we all didn't go that same path.

blizzardboy said:
... a taut calf.

What does this term mean, if I may ask?
____________
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blizzardboy
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posted April 09, 2015 05:55 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 18:41, 09 Apr 2015.

Certain women aren't going to like the fringe bodybuilder that is uber ripped, but it's close to universal that a man with toned muscles & curvature is more attractive than a regular one.

Any physical attribute that the other gender doesn't share is a top candidate for allure. This is why both men & women have a heightened attraction towards the chest (although circa 18th century, women's breasts started becoming more taboo in Western society compared to the more lax late Medieval period). Men are attracted because of boobs, and women are attracted because of the distinct V-shape. Male brains are more visually oriented than women's, but it's still there in both cases. Women can be aroused more easily through explicit words & gestures of affection, hence their longstanding annoyance with their counterparts insufferable inclination to be implicit.
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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


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posted April 09, 2015 06:22 PM

blizzardboy said:
The increased sex appeal and stronger physique for random tasks/chores are nice, but the primary benefit of any type of athletics is towards your psychological profile. What you're really building is mental tenacity and routine. School administrators don't encourage athletics in schools because it give the kid a taut calf.


Not to mention that exercise, as long as it isn't excessive, can both be physically and mentally stimulating, in that it among other things  can help dealing with daily tiredness, circulatory issues, concentration issues, eating habits, etc.

Also if the exercise is of a kind that shows a visual result, such as body building, it also shows people that "you can manage" and to some degree may also make you more trustworthy. It's really subjective though, and it may be more harmful if some finds the result to be excessive, but I don't think that's the norm in today's society, as long as we're not talking uber ripped.

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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 09, 2015 07:07 PM
Edited by artu at 19:08, 09 Apr 2015.

blizzardboy said:
Contrary to a few inaccurate stereotypes still floating around, athletes/bodybuilders get better grades, have better graduation rates, and more stable careers.

Then how come we dont see any lawyers or doctors who look like this:



PandaTar said:
Bodybuilding is not something to look beautiful, basically because beauty is really subjective. There you have your opinion that you find bodybuilders even irritating (I wonder why, actually, but I won't ask why),

I kind of told you already: I find the look overblown and unnatural. Just because beauty is subjective (to a degree on average, I might add, we all have a pretty good idea about who can or cant make it into modeling, though the norms change through historical periods), doesnt mean people are not aiming for it. Now, I want to make it clear that I'm not talking about your regular gym going type but the "body-builder" type. (The picture you linked in some other thread slightly suffices.) I hardly imagine people turn themselves into the guy in the picture above just to be able to lift heavier objects. It has a lot to do with appearance (not beauty in the traditional sense) and a presumed sex appeal. I also disagree with that presumption since male movie stars or models almost never look like the body building type either, they may have torsos with muscles but their arms are never segments that look like water balls. Personally, I wouldnt want to look like that even if it didnt require any exercise. I wouldnt want to look like that if they paid me.
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meroe
meroe


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posted April 09, 2015 07:11 PM

Well for me personally I would love to know how to build up and strengthen my arms and shoulders.  Right now I have pathetic arms with literally no defined muscles.  My upper arm is exactly the same as my forearm .  My shoulders are an issue as I have arthritis (especially the left side), so any way of adding strength to that would be of considerable benefit.

I would have a fit of ecstasy if I ended up with Sarah Conner arms and shoulders
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blizzardboy
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posted April 09, 2015 07:20 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 19:25, 09 Apr 2015.

Artu, this is just silly sophomore melodrama. You're erecting a strawman just to have the satisfaction of tearing it apart. Less than 0.1% of people that regularly exercise/bodybuild look like that. We're talking about an average schoolkid or working adult that incorporates exercise/bodybuilding into their weekly life, not competitors for the Mr Universe award, although I suspect competitors for Mr Universe are almost all highly capable people outside of their bodybuilding.
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OhforfSake
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posted April 09, 2015 07:21 PM
Edited by OhforfSake at 19:31, 09 Apr 2015.

To me, the guy on that pic looks pro (or as bliz described, uber ripped), and I think what bliz described is more about exercising as a hobby.

In regards to pro's, getting a form like that requires high level of dedication and then they only look like that for competitions anyway. Also roids were rather common 15 year or so ago, and I believe they've a really negative effect, so I wouldn't look for those benefits on people with such physique, even if pro bb'ers had the time to immerse themselves in other fields.

@meroe
"Has no arm strength" - noted.

I remember when I first started to lift weights, completely flat chest and no defined shoulders. I didn't stick to it, but the little time I did, I got more defined muscles and for some reason it hasn't changed. Therefore I think that while exercise is important to build up, eating is just as important, if not more important.

Edit:
After further considerations, is this
meroe said:
I would have a fit of ecstasy if I ended up with Sarah Conner arms and shoulders

supposed to be taken literally, as a hint to what you wish for your birthday?
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meroe
meroe


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posted April 09, 2015 07:34 PM

Hahaha I just had my birthday.  Gosh darnit, I never got my Sarah Conner arms and shoulders.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


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posted April 09, 2015 07:36 PM
Edited by OhforfSake at 19:38, 09 Apr 2015.

Happy belated birthday!

Well you might not have gotten what you wanted, but look at it on the positive side, while other girls get lets attractive as they age, you only get more and more milfy!
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kipshasz
kipshasz


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posted April 09, 2015 07:37 PM

I personally prefer how most strongmen are built rather than the bodybuilder type, which in many cases is unhealthy and blown out of decent proportion.

Like the worlds strongest man for example:


doesn't look all that ripped just from the look of it. in some cases in life it's very useful.


now I myself have a nice round beer belly and other great middle aged man features.
starting pumping iron at my condition right now would be a death sentence.
I do however excersize regulary but it's on different ballpark than bodybuilding.

and in most cases I encountered bodybuilder's muscles are just for the looks, not for actual function which is not very nice.
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OhforfSake
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posted April 09, 2015 07:39 PM

Yeah pro BB'ers usually aren't known for their strength. On fitness forums, people also suggest build for strength, not toned muscles, as it doesn't provide much practically.

I don't remember much about all that stuff anymore though.
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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 09, 2015 07:40 PM

blizzardboy said:
Artu, this is just silly sophomore melodrama. You're erecting a strawman just to have the satisfaction of tearing it apart. Less than 0.1% of people that regularly exercise/bodybuild look like that. We're talking about an average schoolkid or working adult that incorporates exercise/bodybuilding into their weekly life, not competitors for the Mr Universe award, although I suspect competitors for Mr Universe are almost all highly capable people outside of their bodybuilding.

Okay, lets say my example is way too marginal, let's take a look at the picture PandaTar uploaded then, we know he's not a professional athlete, if I remember correctly, he was a graphic designer or art director or something like that. Here:



I wouldnt prefer my arms to be this muscley either. (Although, I'd prefer to have the torso compared to my beer belly, if I was able to shape the muscles of my own torso with a volume-like button, I'd tune that down a little bit also.)
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


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posted April 09, 2015 07:41 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 19:44, 09 Apr 2015.

I go for toned muscles, cause I'm a vain douche

Seriously though, I can definitely move stuff around a lot easier than I used to. It must be doing something.
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PandaTar
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posted April 09, 2015 07:45 PM
Edited by PandaTar at 19:50, 09 Apr 2015.

artu said:

Then how come we dont see any lawyers or doctors who look like this:


You might want to check some current bodybuilders bios and find out that they are out there.

Quote:
I hardly imagine people turn themselves into the guy in the picture above just to be able to lift heavier objects. It has a lot to do with appearance (not beauty in the traditional sense) and a presumed sex appeal.


Another strange thing I'm reading here. As I said, it's a presentation. You are, maybe, thinking on powerlifting, which is another kind of activity which involves lifting heavier objects, involves pure strength and competition revolving on that. Bodybuilding is about sculpting your body (any intricate reason it might come to be, you must know each individual to understand. I find it rather sad judging them as if all were the same). You don't have to lift wondrous quantity of weight to achieve a buffed physique. But it can change form person to person, as I already said. Bodybuilding, at the level of Kevin Levrone you pictured there, are the powerhouses of the activity. They are truly massive and they just follow the tendency of being bigger and bigger. I, myself, don't fancy much the actual lines of bodybuilding competition. I used to think that back then, when we had physiques back from 70s or early 80s, they had a symmetrical aura about them, something less bulky and gloated as I have seen lately. Alas, the current looking is what they are judging, so people tend to adapt to these lines if they want to be competitive, even if it really goes beyond what one would say: nice looking.

Quote:
I also disagree with that presumption since male movie stars or models almost never look like the body building type either, they may have torsos with muscles but their arms are never segments that look like water balls.


No one said that. Blizzardboy said that ripped and toned muscles are more appreciated than the average figure - and that includes what you certain described about movie stars. He didn't say: "bodybuilder" shaped body. Don't mix one thing to the other for any unknown reason.

I would advise you to read some bodybuilder biographies, from the old ones and the new, or maybe their blogs or articles. Then I remembered you didn't care. So I don't see much point in advising anything further in that subject or explaining anything, since you got your point about it already.

Quote:
Well for me personally I would love to know how to build up and strengthen my arms and shoulders. Right now I have pathetic arms with literally no defined muscles. My upper arm is exactly the same as my forearm. My shoulders are an issue as I have arthritis (especially the left side), so any way of adding strength to that would be of considerable benefit.

I would have a fit of ecstasy if I ended up with Sarah Conner arms and shoulders.


You know that, for a start, strengthening your legs by doing some compound exercises such as squats, pretty much helps developing your upper body as well, right? When your base is solid, the rest go along and grow even faster. This is, somewhat, very straightforward.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2

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OhforfSake
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posted April 09, 2015 07:48 PM
Edited by OhforfSake at 19:53, 09 Apr 2015.

blizzardboy said:
I can definitely move stuff around a lot easier than I used to. It must be doing something.


I think it's important to also think about how one builds strength. Here I have been told free weight are superior because they do not lock you into the same motion that machine does. With machines you lose a lot of the required coordination (the first time I tried to bench press it was all hilariously clumsy), so if you ever become able to lift a weight level that'd give injuries if you get in a wrong position and on the same time you ever only use locked movements to reach this level of strength, there may be a risk of getting injured.

But I really don't think it's something many needs to consider that much, a little bit of free weight whenever ones feel like it and only if ones strength starts to become really really impressive, perhaps try to diversify the schedule a little.

Edit:
Quote:
You know that, for a start, strengthening your legs by doing some compound exercises such as squats, pretty much helps developing your upper body as well, right? When you base is solid, the rest go along and grow even faster. This is, somewhat, very straightforward.

I've been told many times squats and in general full body exercises are probably the best way to go, but I think people who know how to squat, deadlift, etc. underestimate how scary it looks for someone who has never done it before.
I remember I tried to get a fitness instructor to show me.. she denied doing so, telling me stuff like it wasn't good for me, while in reality I'm pretty sure her "education" was a very simple course with a very simple template and in principle she was more like a member who got paid (who might never have used free weights) and had to do customer services than a real instructor.
In any case, I don't disagree that squatting is probably the best choice, but I think it's important to keep other options open to.. "not put all eggs in one basket" so to say... I remember spending weeks on finding someone to show me some very particular exercises in stead of just doing something else.
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meroe
meroe


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Basically Smurfette
posted April 09, 2015 07:55 PM

PandaTar said:


You know that, for a start, strengthening your legs by doing some compound exercises such as squats, pretty much helps developing your upper body as well, right? When you base is solid, the rest go along and grow even faster. This is, somewhat, very straightforward.


Actually I have good stomach muscles and strong legs (only thing strong about me).  I used to swim a lot as a teenager, both for school, college etc and I have always taken good care of my abs.  But my arms have always been weak because of the arthritis, so I guess I have avoided using them as much as possible.  Its hard to exercise my arms, especially my left arm as it causes considerable discomfort.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz

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