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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5
Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5 This Popular Thread is 435 pages long: 1 50 ... 60 61 62 63 64 ... 100 150 200 250 300 350 400 435 · «PREV / NEXT»
dredknight
dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted September 20, 2015 12:59 PM
Edited by dredknight at 13:02, 20 Sep 2015.

devilfire said:
Take a look at those mods, you can use some of the effects for 5.5

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=26044

Also, is it possible to make Corrupted Soil damage per tile. Right now it punishes slow walkers more than fast ones. Its not like they are not bad enough already.


I think you are not looking quite at all sides.
Corrupted soil stronnger affects units which have higher initiative than those with lower.

Usually the slow walkers have more HP so they not only receive less damage due to low init but they also suffer less casualties.


Awwww those visual changes especially for the effects and spells are going to be damn good .
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 20, 2015 01:24 PM

@devilfire
I can only adjust the paramteres of corrupted soil, not the mechanism

I will take a look at those visual effects.

@lotihoti:

I have no idea what that could be.

Quote:
Perhaps there are several types of hill forts? It is strange that everything else works as it should. Perhaps it is issue of 32-64 configurations? I have 32 bit machine.


There are indeed 2, the one from the RMG surely works.
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dabuthegreat
dabuthegreat


Adventuring Hero
posted September 20, 2015 03:25 PM

Let's talk battle sites.

Battle sites are great because they provide a good way to earn a lot of exp and also a challange for the player even before meeting up with the oponent. They are, however, a little unfair to certain classes.

Because there is no way to see what's hiding behind a certain building, you always go there blindly. And there is a big chance there are going to be some shooters (or even a bunch of them). For mages it's not a problem mostly as destructive magic can easily and quickly dispose a large number of enemy's stacks (shooters don't have a lot of HP). Using Arcane Crystal, Blade Barrier, Mass Confusion, Puppet Master, etc can also get the job done. If you have your own set of good shooters, you're good to go too. Player has the advantage of initiative bonus artifacts and skills, so most of the time his shooters will act first. For example, Sylvan lose a minimum number of units during encounters like this as they almost always act first. Not much shooters will be left after a single turn of Arcane Archers or Druids.

I think there is a problem for certain might oriented heroes though, like Overlord or Demon Lord. Dungeon and Inferno don't have much ranged units and the ones they have are not perticulary powerful. If you have a hero without any magic school (which is pretty normal with Might heroes, at least at the beggining), you're gonna lose a lot of units. Because of the bigger battlefields, none of your units can reach enemy's shooters before they attack at least once. And if you encountered a stack or Arcane Archers...

I don't think my lack of skill can be taken into consideration here (even though I'm pretty sure there a lot of better players than me here), because whatever I try, I just can't seem to get out without major loses from encounters with good shooters on battle sites. It's not a problem with normal neutrals because faster units can cross the battlefield and hit/block shooters before they can even react.

So the situation is that when I'm playing against e.g. Sylvan, after a while they're blazing through battle sites and gather a lot of resources, exp and even prisoners. When I, an Overlord, attack such sites, I left with major loses. Dungeon (and Inferno) are designed to attack quick and fast, blaze through the battlefield on the first turn and dispose the enemy. It's not possible with big battle zones though. I think it's my biggest problem when playing as Inferno.

I don't know what I'm proposing to do, but that's just the feeling I got and I wanted to hear what do you guys think (or what tips do you have).

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Dredknight
Dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted September 20, 2015 03:40 PM

Dabuthegreat I am currently checking this theory.
You also forgot to memtion fortress as their initiative is quite poor.

Actually might heroes are meant to suffer more casualties as they own the late game. I will let you know on the progress.
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dabuthegreat
dabuthegreat


Adventuring Hero
posted September 20, 2015 04:04 PM

Yeah, Fortress Initiative is pretty poor, but I think they still perform a lot better than Dungeon or Inferno in that matter. First of all, Fortress units are sturdy and won't take that many loses (even better if you have Avoid in Defense Skill). There's always Runes of Ressurection and Runes of 2x Speed. Also Thanes have a one-time ranged attack and Rune Patriarch has a Fire Wall spell which is pretty useful. It makes the encounters managable, while Dungeon can loose it's whole stack of Blood Sisters or Dark Riders (it's the same with Inferno's Cerberi or Imps). Of course you may choose not to bring them to the battle, but it also cripples your army during the encounter significantly.

I can understand that Might Heroes should lose more units throughout the game because their units are sturdier and hard hitting. It's not a problem with all might heroes though, because Rangers and Knights perform greatly all the time. The problem is, HoMM V was balanced around small battle zones and with fast, hard hitting factions like Dungeon or Inferno with not much range units, you're somewhat crippled when fighting battle sites (which are mendatory in H55 for hero growth and resources).

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Dredknight
Dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted September 20, 2015 06:45 PM
Edited by Dredknight at 18:46, 20 Sep 2015.

Give me some time to do testing. I will be playing might only the next few games. Make a list of the most crippled heroes and I will try them against mage in PvP.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 20, 2015 07:04 PM

Quote:
So the situation is that when I'm playing against e.g. Sylvan, after a while they're blazing through battle sites and gather a lot of resources, exp and even prisoners.


If you're talking about the AI, that's not a good measure, if casual game mode is off they don't need to fight at these places (and if it is on they still get weaker resistance). This is intentional because they would otherwise be crippled too much.
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dabuthegreat
dabuthegreat


Adventuring Hero
posted September 20, 2015 07:10 PM
Edited by dabuthegreat at 19:18, 20 Sep 2015.

Actually I was talking about PvP this time. AI performs the same regardless the faction or class it chooses (from my experience).

Quote:
Give me some time to do testing. I will be playing might only the next few games. Make a list of the most crippled heroes and I will try them against mage in PvP.

Basically every Demon Lord or Overlord. The rest of them can get around it somehow (it can be spells, good shooters, resurection, wampires, invisible units, etc). Maybe Engineer to an extent

Edit: I still hold my opinion even with AI. When I play against AI as Overlord I feel like I'm underleveled in comparison to other classes bacause of too hard battle sites for me.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 20, 2015 07:31 PM

The factors you mention are lack of good shooters and dark magic spells, but shadow matriarchs are significantly buffed with no range penalty, also they have confusion and overlords can take dark magic. So it doesn't add up.
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dabuthegreat
dabuthegreat


Adventuring Hero
posted September 20, 2015 07:42 PM

Shadow Matriarch are tier 6 and quite expensive. It takes a while before you have enough of them to do anything.

Ok, I didn't even know about Dark Magic, because during my game I got to level 20 without it appearing once (I was offered shatter light thrice though). With 10% of spellpower it still could be pretty hard though. I need to check this out.

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HVKnight
HVKnight


Hired Hero
posted September 21, 2015 08:19 AM

I agree regarding the battle sites.  My friend and I play PvP and we don't even enter those sites anymore.  It's too random.  You could lose a large number of units, crippling you for the final battle with your opponent.  At least if you could see what kind of units were inside, there might be some you could attack, but going in blind is just too risky.  It can cost you the game.

In single player games vs. AI, it's fine, but not in PvP.
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Dredknight
Dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted September 21, 2015 09:11 AM

When we play PvP we usually load save game if they are too strong.
The other way is to sacrifice a secondary hero. After all the price is to good to be easy. So just choose one of the two methods.
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LarkinVB
LarkinVB


Known Hero
posted September 21, 2015 10:02 AM
Edited by LarkinVB at 10:04, 21 Sep 2015.

In PvP we also allow to use a save game if we are mauled in battle sites. It is a clumsy workaround. The fight is all about initiative and shooters with these large areas. Either you kill the ememies shooters before they fire or you have to reload most of the time. A saving grace can be the hive or arcane crystal if your hero is fast in casting.

I think a solution would be to reduce the number of shooters and raise the number of melee.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 22, 2015 04:13 PM

I think for PvP this issue can be solved to make the growth % user modifyable with a script function/console command.
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LarkinVB
LarkinVB


Known Hero
posted September 22, 2015 04:47 PM
Edited by LarkinVB at 23:37, 22 Sep 2015.

magnomagus said:
I think for PvP this issue can be solved to make the growth % user modifyable with a script function/console command.


This will not solve the big advantage fast shooters have on the big battlemaps. It is of utmost importance to neutralize the enemy shooters/casters before they act. Otherwise the casualties will force a reload.

If you reduce number of shooters/ damage casters and increase the number of melee enemies, the player has to fear the final onslaught but is not crippled by range attacks.

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devilfire
devilfire


Adventuring Hero
posted September 22, 2015 08:12 PM
Edited by devilfire at 21:12, 22 Sep 2015.

1. How is hellfire working with Succubus Mistresses ? Does it have a separate chance to proc for every bounce, or it have a chance only on the main target and if it proc on the main target is it procing on the next ? (not really a 5.5 related but still..)

2. Do you think it would be a good idea to replace Empathy with Herald of Death only for Necromancers. The same way as elemental chains for Dungeon. Maybe the necromancy tree can look like this:

- Banshee Howl > Haunted Mines
- Death March > Eternal Servitude > Lord of the Undead > Death March (you decide)
- Cold Steel > Chill Bones (with buffed numbers)

Reasoning: with Herald of Death moved to other tree there is one free slot. It makes sense to be chilling bones, from a visual perspective (still appealing because the theme is green and blue) and from gameplay perspective, also it look like a cold equivalent to Hellfire which is cool in my opinion. As for Death March it can go anywhere in the middle line. If it is the last perk it have to be buffed in my opinion.

While the Leadership can look like this:

- Benediction > Last stand
- Diplomacy > Herald of Death > Aura of Swiftness
- Recruitment > Encourage

Reasoning: this will make Herald of Death actually useful and it would give the undeads a way to get Aura of Swiftness without sacrificing perks (because now if you want to take it you have to take Encourage which is useless for undead.. even if you don`t want to take it you have to take atleast 1 perk that is absolutely useless).Aura of Speed is very powerful and I understand the sacrifice but it would be balanced if every race have to make it, not only the undead because every other race can use morale freely. Lore wise it also makes sense -> only the most powerful necromancers have the power to transform living into undead without even killing them (other classes that can take Necromancy are not real Necromancers). Nothing will change for every other race.

3. Change Dead Man`s curse to -2 decrease in luck.

Reasoning: it seems weak for tier 3 perk. If we compare it to Aura of Swiftness, Power of Endurance, Power of Speed, Preparation, Triple Ballista etc it feel a lot more non impactful. All of the other tier 3 perks are game changers while this one is non factor. Also it have to be strong to be able to compete with double dmg spells (for Magic casters) and bigger criticals (for Might classes).

4. One small visual change -  Sorcerer`s use the same basic attack as the Warlocks, can you change it to more red-ish to match the skin. Its nothing important but it would look more polished.


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 23, 2015 12:32 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 12:36, 23 Sep 2015.

Quote:
It is of utmost importance to neutralize the enemy shooters/casters before they act. Otherwise the casualties will force a reload.


I have heard this complaint many times about the game in general, IMO the battle sites are merely a symptom, but not the cause of the issue.

In any case the algorithm only recognizes tier numbers and equally distributes them over many possible combinations. What you suggest would be very hard to do.

@devilfire:

1. don't know
2. agree, but lots of work and I don't know at this point if deflaktor has interest in making changes to some hardcoded skills.
3. agree, but hardcoded, chilling bones is also hardcoded.
4. too trivial for me to be interested.
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dabuthegreat
dabuthegreat


Adventuring Hero
posted September 23, 2015 02:09 PM

Quote:
I have heard this complaint many times about the game in general, IMO the battle sites are merely a symptom, but not the cause of the issue.

The thing is against neutrals and another player your faster units can get to the shooters before they can act, not so much on the bigger battle zones.
Quote:
In any case the algorithm only recognizes tier numbers and equally distributes them over many possible combinations. What you suggest would be very hard to do.

That's a bummer.

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dredknight
dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted September 23, 2015 03:43 PM

We just canceled a Fortress (might) vs Dungeon (balanced) game.

Reason was fortress hero was so behind in development there was no point to continue.

We will try once again same combination as there were some other issues (we used played water map with underground built on Utility.exe).

btw does anyone know if there is any penalty for fortress heroes when walking on adventure map? I have the feeling their movement is slower than the rest.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 23, 2015 04:14 PM

Quote:
The thing is against neutrals and another player your faster units can get to the shooters before they can act, not so much on the bigger battle zones.


These assumptions are far too situational, in late game battle sites can have hundreds of pit spawns/rakhashas etc and quickly walking to the other side panicking about shooters is really going to hurt you far more then wait.
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