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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted October 07, 2015 11:55 AM |
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There are many heroes in the game prepared for non-default magic school, such as hangvul, bart, kastore.
Light magic on a demon lord just stretches too much for me what is sensible from a lore perspective.
Fireball ballista is mainly a spec for small/normal sized maps. Demonologist is better on XL maps, this is a mathematical fact, it doesn't matter how you feel about it. Also since RC2 the 'on the road' reinforcements are increased by 50% if a second town is obtained.
In both TOE and H55 a secondary skill slot is roughly equal in value to 2 primary skills. Attack boosts damage by 3.33%, therefore 3 levels of offense = 3* 6.66% = 20%. You only need 3 morale to already top that with retribution = 3*2.5 = 7.5% for one skillslot. Retribution is therefore an above average perk.
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 07, 2015 11:58 AM |
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devilfire said:
As for uniqeness yes, they are, but some of them feel more ordinary. For example the Demon Lord (I can`t check his name now) that is getting demons every week. That specialization feel weak and uninteresting. What is his selling point ? You can argue that 200 demons will make a big difference in late game but lets be honest.. Noone is going to pick it over fireball ballista.
I am picking it and I am gonna kick your demonic tail with it ;D.
you just do not know how powerful demons are late game.
devilfire said:
Now imagine that he got access to Light magic.. only him, not every Demon Lord, just him. Now you have a good selling point because his specialization is not good but
If it is possible what you are saying every hero will have the opportunity to get every skill. Opposite to what you are saying this will make them less unique. Some heroes do not have access to some skill because they are already too powerful.
I cant imagine who will be able to beat Inferno if they have mass haste and devine strength. Basically
-they are one of the fastest faction in game, haste will make them faster.
- they are the faction with huge damage variation. Devine strength will increase their damage output by a couple of magnitutes.
- Lorewise they will be able to cast Word of light which is wrong.
devilfire said:
1. He can buff better than every other in his class Lorewise Inferno are about DEBUF and destruction of the enemy
2. He got access to Assault Teleport Inferno units already have huge speed advantage. no need for teleport
3. He have more flexible building path because he don`t need Power of Speed or Power of Endurance (which mean he can get archery and flaming ballista without the dissadvantage of being slower in battle)
This is exactly why Power of speed and Endurance exist, Those who dont have them can get some pinch in offense or defense
Now he have a selling point. Even tho his specialization is not good enough his skills more than make up for this.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted October 07, 2015 12:21 PM |
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 07, 2015 12:29 PM |
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I started checking the console from time to time.
This error appeared, not sure what does it mean:
(Script)ERROR: Hero "Menel" does not exist!
I dont have such hero in my army nor does my opponent.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted October 07, 2015 01:37 PM |
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 07, 2015 02:14 PM |
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magnomagus said:
Was this on same map as previous bug? Is the bug reported every day or just once?
happened only once. For the last 10 days nothing else appeared.
Hero Thralsai did not got any Blood Maidens on day one with the register of the legion and blood maidens in the inventory.
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Nordos
Known Hero
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posted October 07, 2015 02:31 PM |
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He meant one specific Hero. Well, just saying.
I as well dislike reinforcement heroes. More Powerful than a Ballista Hero? ... Nope. You can get the mines one week earlier, you can clear enemies much faster, thus obtain more recources and more experience.
With the addition of the recources, you can buy more troops, destroying the advantage the Reinforcement had.
Maybe its simply my poor skills and my demand to get fewest causalities as possible.
Some Heroes do have weak specifications, IMO. An example is the Necro Hero that gets 0.7 skeletons per level per week. Even on Level 20, that are 14 Skeletons - less than what you can recruit in the town. And far less than what xou get by reviving.
If you have 1k or 1,1k skeletons doesn't really make that much difference.
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 07, 2015 02:44 PM |
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Nordos said:
If you have 1k or 1,1k skeletons doesn't really make that much difference.
Actually this is 10% difference.
lvl 30 this is 21 per day.
I think Magno made it to compare to Stronghold skill that gives 2 goblins per day. 1 week = 14 goblins.
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Nordos
Known Hero
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posted October 07, 2015 02:48 PM |
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It is - for one of 7 Stacks.
The other 6 Stacks have a tad more creatures and the Hero Level is higher. Well, if I play anway.
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devilfire
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 07, 2015 03:25 PM |
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Thats why it would be unique lorewise, because he is not supposed to have it.
Imagine a Paladin or a Priest comment on that "I could not believe my eyes.. What defines the line between good and evil if a Demon Lord can learn the holy magic while most of our beloved bretheren that are supposed to be good and mercyful devoted themself to the Dark arts and became worse than the evil that we are fighting against.." Of course I am not a writer and this certainly can be written more poetically. Plot twists like that can make some heroes even more interesting and unique.
Maybe Light magic will make Inferno overpowered.. But something like Destruction magic and the fireball ballista will make sense lorewise and gameplaywise AND give unique flavor to the Demon Lord.
Lorewise : "When he was born there was something magical about him (his name). Sorcerers felt it in their fiery hearts. They send him to the deepest, darkrest pits of Hell. The Pit Lords believed he will become a great Sorceror but unfortunately the destiny has chosen another path for him, the path of the Demon Lords. Even tho he failed with the magical arts he managed to do something that was considered impossible - he fused a living fireball with his ballista. The training was not complete waste of time because even now he is using what he learned even tho his potencial lies in the strenght of his armies".
Gameplaywise he will also be different because he will be the only Demon Lord who is going to use SP to such extend.
As for Retribution - artifacts have a lot higher Attack than Moral, so its not efficient to stack morale instead of attack just for the damage and the perk is not providing anything else.. If Moral had effect when its over 5 then it would a totally different story.
Also my opinion is the same as Nordos.. Some on road reinforcements make sense -> like imps because the more you have the more mana will be drained, but others are just..
Also few Demons won`t really help you at any stage of the game.. Maybe you can use them for meat shields if you are a Mage and you need more turns but otherwise not that much..
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 07, 2015 04:45 PM |
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(Script)ERROR: Attempt to call a nil value
This error appeared 6 times in row on day 1.
I got no growth from all heroes.
Last week I bought and 8th hero. Not sure if the hero count has something to do with the issue. (it is not the hero itself but when it is bought, so the 6th 7th and 8th just dont work or break the whole calc).
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted October 07, 2015 04:58 PM |
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 07, 2015 05:04 PM |
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No, it is exactly what is written.
I got another one time error midweek.
(Script)ERROR: Hero "Urunir" does not exist!
P.S. I wrote @H55_WTF() function. May be this may have activated the Urunir error.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted October 07, 2015 05:42 PM |
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted October 07, 2015 07:14 PM |
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Quote:
Have found a couple of bugs in the latest release of MMH55:
- caster luck doesn't work. The event itself is triggered as it should, but spell damage is not changed.
Which spell, which hero?
Quote:
Maybe Light magic will make Inferno overpowered.. But something like Destruction magic and the fireball ballista will make sense lorewise and gameplaywise AND give unique flavor to the Demon Lord.
This doesn't make much sense, shatter destruction gives them unique flavor because gatekeeper/sorcerer already have destructive. If they had destructive they would all be the same. Besides destructive is a pointless investment for any class with marginal spellpower.
Quote:
Some Heroes do have weak specifications, IMO. An example is the Necro Hero that gets 0.7 skeletons per level per week. Even on Level 20, that are 14 Skeletons - less than what you can recruit in the town. And far less than what xou get by reviving.
If you have 1k or 1,1k skeletons doesn't really make that much difference.
You are correct, the multiplier is based on base growth/30 but in this case Nival set growth lower because of the special building, therefore I will boost this one to 26/30 = 0.9. This is not an issue for demons because for them it was already corrected.
Quote:
Eratic Mana is also useless for might heroes with 5-6 Knoledge but yet it is been offered to them if they pick luck.
???
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devilfire
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 08, 2015 12:57 AM |
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Magno actually Demon Lords can learn Shatter Light and Shatter Summoning, but no Shatter Destruction. Also only heroes with marginal SP will make use of the stun and slow that Lightning and Ice spells provide. For classes that have huge reserves of SP Fire path will almost always be the better choise.
Dredknight maybe you will want to stun with a Lightning instead with a hero attack.. This is why such hero will be unique among his bretheren, because every other hero of his class will stun with their hero attacks, but not him.
Anyway, I have the feeling that you and Dredknight can`t understand what I mean.
I don`t mean to give Light or Destructive to every Demon Lord.. Just to one of them.
There are 8 Demon Lords in the game. I propose to give Light to only one. It won`t make them all the same, exactly the oposite, because only one hero for a certain class will have access to a certain skill that no other hero from that class can have.
I dare to propose a starting primary skill difference between heroes from the same class. I want to see diversity between the heroes. Some of them have weaker specialities, let them have higher starting primary stats or some unusual skill or perk.
I can`t see why are you Magno and Dredknight so against such things. I understand that you want to keep everything uniformed but some exceptions to the general rules are always exciting and will shake the things a bit.
Some small tweaks are not really gamebreaking (like Retribution with 3 % instead of 2.5 %) but can really build some hype that something have been buffed.
You know the feel when you see that something is buffed, even tho it won`t really make a big difference but your mind is playing hundred scenarios just to include a tactic that involve that certain skill.
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dabuthegreat
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 08, 2015 07:48 AM |
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Quote:
Also only heroes with marginal SP will make use of the stun and slow that Lightning and Ice spells provide. For classes that have huge reserves of SP Fire path will almost always be the better choise.
You underestimate the value of freezing effect. As a mage with Sorcery (+ Swift Mind) you can cast the Circle of Winter to slow the oponent's units and often act second time before their turn. The value of this perk is unmatched when dealing with high numbers of shooters.
But anyway, I think your idea is pretty interesting. It can shake things up, although I don't think it's necessary (worth to consider though)
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 08, 2015 09:28 AM |
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Quote:
I don`t mean to give Light or Destructive to every Demon Lord.. Just to one of them.
There are 8 Demon Lords in the game. I propose to give Light to only one. It won`t make them all the same, exactly the oposite, because only one hero for a certain class will have access to a certain skill that no other hero from that class can have.
Basically this is what the classes are about at first place.
Quote:
dare to propose a starting primary skill difference between heroes from the same class. I want to see diversity between the heroes. Some of them have weaker specialities, let them have higher starting primary stats or some unusual skill or perk.
Basically this is what the classes are about at first place.
Quote:
Anyway, I have the feeling that you and Dredknight can`t understand what I mean.
I get exactly what you are saying. I think you look at it only through one prism so you see it as correct. If there was a demon lord with Light magic this would always be the one to be picked in PvP due the fact Light magic is OP for Inferno.
Quote:
Some small tweaks are not really gamebreaking (like Retribution with 3 % instead of 2.5 %) but can really build some hype that something have been buffed.
How do you define as "gamebreakers" Magno already explained why it is 2.5. What are the facts behind your proposition?
Quote:
You know the feel when you see that something is buffed, even tho it won`t really make a big difference but your mind is playing hundred scenarios just to include a tactic that involve that certain skill.
Doing something by feeling is wrong when it comes to balance.
How you feel defines your creativity, adding new stuff making the game more replayable by adding more content. But this is half of the work done. Then you need to balance those new additions to be compatiable with the rest of the game. So it takes both - creativity and logic.
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Nordos
Known Hero
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posted October 08, 2015 09:45 AM |
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Though currently there are some heroes you simply wouldn't pick, IMO.
Confuse also reduce Spellpoints? Yeah, that helps against <10% of the enemies, and in a fight against another Hero, it is pretty useless, since with many creatures, the damage of spells is not really important.
Additionally, that guy is Necro. The faction which doesn't really care about some small losses through magic, due to revive. And Vamps.
The only upside is having the confuse spell from the beginning - but no revive.
Just an example of a Hero I would never ever pick 
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 08, 2015 09:50 AM |
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Nordos said:
Confuse also reduce Spellpoints? Yeah, that helps against <10%
Actually it does not help even in 10% of the cases as in most cases units act before the hero.
I really want all the heroes to be viable but not by starting to mess with the classes.If specialization is weak than it needs some change  .
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