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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Beta Discussions ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Beta Discussions ~ This thread is 64 pages long: 1 10 20 30 40 ... 48 49 50 51 52 ... 60 64 · «PREV / NEXT»
The_green_drag
The_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted August 29, 2015 02:02 PM

Random question but does being immune to blind do anything in this game? Is there even a blind spell? Why do sun deer not have any kind of blinding attack!?

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted August 29, 2015 02:06 PM

oakwarrior said:
We are trying a "novel" approach to AI and internally we're quite happy how it's turning out. I can't delve into the specifics, but it's not the good old "if (condition filled) then (do something)" system. It's not supposed to emulate human thought of course, because that'd take a lot of time and potential scientific papers to put into the framework of the game. Instead, the AI in H7 always strives to succeed and progress based on the current situation it is aware of.

Additionally, taking an AI and trying to rewrite it for another game is generally a bad idea. Taking inspiration is fine of course, but that does not guarantee an optimum result. Most of the time it's better to take already available knowledge and experience and build it from the ground up with the game. Mixing and matching will always end up with something that's fairly hard to monitor, as you might not always be fully aware of the consequences of a minor change.

EDIT: To come back to Salamandre's claim that the trends of high loading times will continue... they really will. But not because that people "accept it" because of buying the game. No. It's always because of the demand for AAA/5++++/10-out-of-10 graphics. Always. And devs will always try to push the graphics as far as they can, because that's where the demand and competition lies. And then if you don't meet the "triple-A" requirement on graphics, the review scores will start at 60%, not at 80%. It's the unfortunate truth that's reflected across the board in both game critic circles and in the playerbase.

All that is "acceptable" because it's the way things are. There needs to be a significant change in trend for them to change. Game developers will ALWAYS push the existing hardware, not try to stay within certain low boundaries.


sounds as though you're trying to convince yourself of these things as much as you're trying to convince us lol
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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted August 29, 2015 02:06 PM

I looooooooooooove the sailing theme!

____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted August 29, 2015 02:06 PM
Edited by Pawek_13 at 14:25, 29 Aug 2015.

The_green_drag said:
Random question but does being immune to blind do anything in this game? Is there even a blind spell? Why do sun deer not have any kind of blinding attack!?

There is no "Blindness" spell per se, but some Light spells get "Blinded" effect after obtaining specific abilities. Here you can see what spells and what abilities can grant the "Blinded" effect.

PS. The last question - I have no idea. Maybe they're keeping blindness for unicorns?

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 29, 2015 02:14 PM
Edited by Stevie at 14:15, 29 Aug 2015.

verriker said:
sounds as though you're trying to convince yourself of these things as much as you're trying to convince us lol


Still, no one buys it. Probably not even himself.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted August 29, 2015 02:17 PM

oakwarrior said:
alcibiades, the only thing off the top of my head would be to delete all game files and reinstall :/
Sorry for the hassle

Well I deleted all files, and downloaded the entire 8 gigs again, and guess what? First time I start the game, it crashes as soon as I enter main menu. Second time I get to start the game, I get this message: "Uplay has discovered an irrepable error and has to close. Error folder has been created at ..." (error message in danish for documentation).

Things are really looking promising so far. I guess I can always uninstall and try to download it again ...
____________
What will happen now?

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted August 29, 2015 02:20 PM
Edited by kiryu133 at 14:28, 29 Aug 2015.

I'm having a great ol' time!

Air elemental s melt my computer
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 29, 2015 02:43 PM

oakwarrior said:
But not because that people "accept it" because of buying the game. No. It's always because of the demand for AAA/5++++/10-out-of-10 graphics. Always.


Also. The question is: how to correct this behavior. Obviously the "I don't buy it" doesn't work, as when it comes to entertainment, the budget of poor people suddenly becomes wealthy, people will buy no matter what; if game looks good, if title is known, if enough advertising was made, etc.

The only way to return things in a safe perspective is to graft gaming issues over a juridic environment, create a quality-range  responsibility. The game has loading times exceeding a decent delay (let's say 1 second)? have the law with you and obtain financial compensation. The game crashes? Same. The AI is passive? You sue the company and suck their money again.

Have the companies being forced to put all negative details on game box otherwise going outside the law. If I had on Skyrim box: you will experience 1 minute waiting delay at every area switch, I would have never bought that game!

Until you put this on wheel and smooth, gaming companies will continue to mock customers because there is a free-risk juridic land.

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The_green_drag
The_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted August 29, 2015 02:52 PM

Pawek_13 said:
The_green_drag said:
Random question but does being immune to blind do anything in this game? Is there even a blind spell? Why do sun deer not have any kind of blinding attack!?

There is no "Blindness" spell per se, but some Light spells get "Blinded" effect after obtaining specific abilities. Here you can see what spells and what abilities can grant the "Blinded" effect.

PS. The last question - I have no idea. Maybe they're keeping blindness for unicorns?

Awww what happened to blind? but it's good there are some blinding effects. Thought the trog ability was just there for snows and giggles.

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TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 29, 2015 02:58 PM bonus applied by Elvin on 29 Aug 2015.

My impressions of the game so far(and also compared to the demo before):

-The game was running quite smoothly until devs snowed"fixed" it up half-way during the first demo and it has ever since been slow and sluggish as I'm sure you meant it to be(after all, it was a fix...).

-Artificial Idiot is working great, I just wish we had an Artificial Intelligence instead. All it seriously does is run around and build town. It doesn't really collect or capture stuff, simply runs around aimlessly. If I had known it's that bad I would've just turned off the AIs and gone against neutrals... At least I wouldn't have to wait each turn 4-5 minutes when playing against 4 players with less than half the map revealed... Simply awesome!

-A lot of bugs have been fixed. I haven't ran into many bugs.

-Game doesn't crash anymore(for me at least), hasn't crashed even once.

-Game-saves no more get corrupted around the time of month 2(like in demo)!

-I really don't need hundreds of auto-saves. For me the old system of getting some 4-10 last turns auto-saved is enough. Civ 5 should be the prime example on how to do this; set how many auto-saves you have and how often they get done!(older ones get deleted)

-The game feels very "mechanical". You set a tactic of how to play the game by choosing hero and then repeat the same tactic each and every fight. It gets boring very fast.

-The game still feels extremely slow. You don't move a whole lot during a turn, even less if you pick anything up. Logistics is worthless in terms of increasing movement(Yet I still kept picking it up because you gotta spend those pesky skill-points somewhere. After some level 10-15 you can already kill everything without losses anyway so who cares...). The heroes really need more movement points and pick-up being less expensive. This only feels even more amplified because you gotta wait forever for the AI...

-The colors of the game are so plain and boring. It doesn't make me feel like I'm playing fantasy game nor does it want me to go out to explore(Again amplified even more with looooooooong AI turns and the slow&sluggish feel of the game).

-Hero specialization are still horrid. Only probably around dozen viable main heroes in the entire game. specializations almost never support the hero-class, essentially having you pre-picked 4/5 classes before game even starts(Vive la Freedom!). All factions have pretty much the same specs: +6 magic school, skill+ability ones are direct copies[like prime + renewal or warmachine + durability for example on more than one hero], cast spell x as one rank higher, + X creature[these are actually even worse now, if I get +1 Rakshasa per week it makes hardly any difference in my final army even in longer game. They will not stand out as me having been rakshasa master, on top of that it's only for single town anyway...). Another thing that really struck me is that there are no specialists that would help/boost your racial(like hero starts with + X meta-points in combat, with meta-skills or for example haven hero with morale stat boosted like eruina)

-At first I though the cheap buildings problems was solved when I read that capital gave 2000 gold per turn... except it was +2000 on top of previous ones. The buildings are still too cheap...

-Make spies more expensive.

-War-machines are now cheaper too. Didn't they cost rares too in the demo? I liked that extra rare-cost personally much better

-Tavern seems to only have one hero of your own faction, but quite often two of another faction...? Shouldn't it be more like two heroes of your own faction and two slots for "foreign" heroes.

-Artifacts are way too cheap to buy while scrolls are too expensive(even more so than more expensive artis...)

-Champions finally feel like champions! Only I've found that you can boost cores damage so much that champions look like total wimps once again... Champion should always be the strongest stack regardless, it is the champion of your nation/faction!!! Elites are like in-between, you can boost them, but they won't reach the status champion has nor the power of core...

-The new magic system blows. It feels like it was solely done with academy new racial in mind. And it is once again something to make the game even more easier(I know, it was way too easy before and now even easier...). Now you can carry the spells before you master the said school so you need less logistics. However that's not the thing that truly annoys the crap out of me, it is the fact that even if I'm Grand-Master of whatever school I still can't learn the strongest spell of that school because of the arcane points aren't enough. Even before you needed/wanted essentially more schools to boost power, now you are absolutely forced to take more. If this arcane system really needed to be implemented, it should have been on top of the old system(so if you master school X you can get the level 4 spell for it regardless of arcane points).

-Speaking of Academy racial, its snowed up. Without the abilities from magic schools you are essentially stuck with bunch of same spells just re-skinned. You still need to learn at the very least one magic school(which you will end up using). You are also lacking spell-power without the wisdom bonuses. To get the bonuses and abilities You need schools. Once you get schools you get ranks for those schools too. Essentially academy racial now only offers you double spell-power ability from 2nd level and that's it. Ultimately it's by far the weakest racial in the game now as it has very high dependency for other skills which at same time eat out the usage of the racial as you get them. It's just plain bad design.

- The copied around unit abilities... Ohh heck, not even gonna go there since nothing has changed!(Ok, in reality they got copied even more now that we saw neutrals...)

-Magic schools, skills, abilities and racials all have too much overlapse with each other. You wanna boost morale? Well take either racial, leadership, light magic, fire magic, random boost from luck or even double boosted from map with logistics. You can get the same-type boosts from so many places it ain't even funny. And you can really stack some things up to a ridiculous degrees.

-Allow skill-levels be picked without taking ability first. If I want master offense I want to be able get there without abilities on novice and expert. This is for good part why the random system is utter crap currently. It's full-random system that cannot be controlled. Also bring back the limit of choosing 1 ability per skill-level(+GM as 4th)!

-Governor boosts are too high. They are still equal or better than master level skills... And yet at same time they don't feel rewarding enough for me to level up my B-class heroes for them... They should get passive boosts to help with building town/troops, extra resources... And they should get exp for doing the governing! every turn or week for example.

-Make the resource gains immediate, I don't want to wait extra for it to add them.

-Make troops show on the map with the classic "few","pack", "legion"-style things. They give much better immersion, the numbers make it feel so mechanical.

-Make neutrals show only single stack of units of same type, don't show that I got 5 small stacks of assasins against me, but rather 1 big stack. knowing how enemy is split before hand makes the battles too easy. Give scouting extra ability to see the split for example to increase the value of such skill.

-Hide the numbers/artifacts/spells from adventure-map objects and piles. knowing them before-hand ruins the surprise. If battle-site gives resources show range instead of specific number(heck you can put showing any numbers an optional feature in options).

-Give ability to read units abilities at town/battle.

-Increase or better yet get rid of max level. You hit level 30 in no time(roughly 2-3 months since start) and after that you just wanna avoid battles completely since you don't need resources and most items will probably be worse already at this point too. You get max level even way faster than in h6 where at least you had blood/tears system to encourage battling after.

-Increase mentor exp gain. Even the 25% felt low at times(ultimately it was still fitting), the new 15% says to me don't go for it. Also increase the skills exp gain to 10/20/30% boost for example. The 5% per skill-level is so minimal I wouldn't care about it one bit.

-Increase the garrison max troops. Currently they max out so low that you swipe them out with single spell and they only serve to stop the Artificial Idiots from running around with their empty or near empty heroes. As far as I'm concerned, you can let them grow indefinitely. You come with hero they will not stop your army regardless if they grow some 10-20 cores and 5 elites per week. Because they ultimately do nothing with so small numbers the whole idea of implementing them becomes useless. It's like a feature designed only for the smallest of maps currently...

-For the adventure map magic/might -skill buildings: allow them to place the random point to abilities too. And why do I have to spend my skill-points before I use them??? It feels very tiresome to open skill-menu just to spend some 1-4 points after around the time you reach level 10-15.

-Mixed neutrals are finally in the game and that's great. Just make them consist of same faction or at the very least same alignment(good/neutral/evil). So many neutral enemies looked ridiculous because of how they were mixed. Also if we ever get any kind of real Artificial Intelligence it would be nice if it tried to make use of the units as whole rather than move each unit as individual with no co-operation between them.

-Don't automatically wreck fort when you capture it. If I just won a fort battle to capture it, why do I destroy it only to re-build it?!?! If I want to turn it into my faction, give me option to destroy/re-build it. You made this even worse than in h6...

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 29, 2015 03:25 PM

TD said:
-Tavern seems to only have one hero of your own faction, but quite often two of another faction...? Shouldn't it be more like two heroes of your own faction and two slots for "foreign" heroes.

Clearly you missed this...it makes no sense to me either.
____________

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oakwarrior
oakwarrior


Famous Hero
posted August 29, 2015 03:39 PM

Stevie said:
verriker said:
sounds as though you're trying to convince yourself of these things as much as you're trying to convince us lol


Still, no one buys it. Probably not even himself.


I don't need convincing. I've seen both sides of the story by now when it comes to gamedev, from ranting fan to actual developer. This is the current state, like it or not, blind or not
If anyone with the same experience wants to bring counter-arguments, I'd be happy to hear them

Minecraft is a good example of a game with a basically non-existent budget and a smart idea taking off into the skies. Even Markus Persson himself said he didn't expect it to be nearly as successful. The game had no long-term plan than "just do stuff". In the case of a budgeted, planned and published game the development is... well, different. So are the expectations. If you check the feedback from various communities, Steam for example, there's a lot of commotion around the graphics of the game, some saying that it's "too fancy" or "not good enough". There are expectations, you as fan have expectations, and so do I With Minecraft there were no expectations. With a long running series like this, there are a loooot of expectations and they all vary so much that there can never be a consensus within a community (I've been around long enough to say that this is also an inconvenient truth ). This is the same for all franchises. People expect every next CoD installment to be fancier, prettier with more guns and explosions. People expect the next Elder Scrolls to be even more immersive and impressive. And these expectations also lie in the visual presentation of the game, and it's a really big driving force and influences the general approval/disapproval of the game a great deal. But I digress

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted August 29, 2015 03:45 PM
Edited by kiryu133 at 15:46, 29 Aug 2015.

It is more important on consoles however and one does have a bit more leeway on PC.

Say, how do you decide creature price?
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted August 29, 2015 03:54 PM

Another suggestion - Champion Crature Dwellings on the map should have a possibility to change which Champion unit they produce. Something like fort conversion, but maybe a little bit less painstaking.

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MegiddoZO
MegiddoZO

Tavern Dweller
posted August 29, 2015 03:55 PM

My impressions with this game so far: I do rather like some of the new features of the game: the skill wheel allowing you to choose your own skills on level up, the choice you need to make on getting specific buildings and being able to burn down buildings of a city you've taken over are all nice new tools that give more variation in the strategic part of the HOMM game, and I welcome that! I also rather like the creature design and the general world map looks pretty. Also, thanks a bunch for bringing back the LAN option! It has been sorely missed in HOMM6.

But of course, it isn't all positive news: There's some bugs here and there, but this is to be expected, this is a beta after all, and if you're looking for getting just a sneakpeek to a polished version of the game you really don't understand what the term "beta" is. Alot of the bugs I've seen are rather harmless, like the thieves guild showing other player's stat when it's their turn, icons that don't change to the right graphic, creatures moving weird and the AI doing some odd things sometimes: While these things do need fixing, I'm positive those can be ironed out in time, and they are not truly disruptive into playing the game. But here comes a serious issue: There are some disruptive bugs in the game, and they can be found in the multiplayer.

In the last couple of days, I've been testing the game with 2 friends who also have closed beta access with multiplayer LAN games with Sim Turns turned on. We've had 10 or so games, but the problem is: In 100% of the games, they never even reached Week 2.

Why? Because a couple of major bugs that synchronize horrible with eachother. First, there's the major one that causes softlocks: The softlock of the game going out of sync while spectating another player's battle. Now, I don't really like this feature myself, as it spoils the army and hero of your fellow players even if you're not on teams, and it feels hugely disruptive in Sim Turns, and slows this mode down significantly.

Ultimately though, I could live with this feature(though having it as an option instead of mandatory would be awesome!), if it were not for the fact that as I said, within 2 weeks of play, one of us would always encounter that bug, the battle will just hang there doing nothing. I'm guessing the game has trouble keeping the game insync with all the actions and calculation that occur in battle, and from how I see it, removing this spectate feature alltogether so only the fact that a battle occured and what the results were have to be sync'd, would go a major way in preventing this harrowing issue from happening.

Now, we aren't really the giving up types, so we trudge on. The player who got the issue closes his game, and the others restart. We'll just connect again, open the autosave of the game and- Wait. Hold on. Where did the autosave go? Here's the next issue: In Sim turns multiplayer games, the game isn't autosaved at all. It seems to work just fine in single and open battle multi games, but in sim turns multi? Tough luck.

Hardened as we are, we move onwards: Creating a new game and avoiding issue #2 by simply saving every turn. It's not ideal for the host, but it's not too hard to deal with, as saves are made fast enough. So we play the game, and we run into issue #1 again, in a battle just after a save. We load the game, try to perform some different actions to avoid issue #1 at the same point...but the moment someone moves? Issue #3 rears it ugly neck: Big red Out of Synch messages everywhere. And they certainly aren't lying, any battle done at this point will just give a similar behaviour as issue #1, no matter how many times we try to load this save game and do different things. And this issue #3 doesn't seem to limit itself to sim turn games, it seems to occur in Open Battle multi saved games as well.


The combination of all these seem to create a deadlock, and this is rather dangerous: These bugs cut us off in earlygame, and we have no idea if there are any pressing issues in lategame. I cannot stress this enough: These particular bugs have to be fixed before the game comes out, as it makes multiplayer virtually unplayable. AI being wonky, or a cursor being wrong on release isn't really going to scare of people who want to play HOMM.

An unplayable multiplayer mode on release? That would definitely scare people away.

I've reported all these bugs of course, but I felt I had to really lay this out here, in the hopes it reaches the ones who need to hear it, and to warn you what you can expect if you still have yet to try the multiplayer mode.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted August 29, 2015 03:59 PM

oakwarrior said:
This is the same for all franchises. People expect every next CoD installment to be fancier, prettier with more guns and explosions. People expect the next Elder Scrolls to be even more immersive and impressive. And these expectations also lie in the visual presentation of the game, and it's a really big driving force and influences the general approval/disapproval of the game a great deal. But I digress

So then I don't understand, why didn't you guys corrected and improved the gameplay of h5, and give it gorgeous graphics? Why giving so much emphasis on the h6 way, the game which freed h4 from being the black sheep of the series ...
____________

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted August 29, 2015 04:06 PM

oakwarrior said:
I don't need convincing. I've seen both sides of the story by now when it comes to gamedev, from ranting fan to actual developer. This is the current state, like it or not, blind or not
If anyone with the same experience wants to bring counter-arguments, I'd be happy to hear them


yeah someone already did years ago, here they are, enjoy, lol
____________

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted August 29, 2015 04:14 PM

oakwarrior said:
We are trying a "novel" approach to AI and internally we're quite happy how it's turning out. I can't delve into the specifics, but it's not the good old "if (condition filled) then (do something)" system. It's not supposed to emulate human thought of course, because that'd take a lot of time and potential scientific papers to put into the framework of the game. Instead, the AI in H7 always strives to succeed and progress based on the current situation it is aware of.


I'm not sure what is so novel about it considering that it does not develop mage guilds, does not clear its area, does not pick up resources and would rather fight battles it cannot win rather than capture empty towns. I hope you plan to make it several times smarter because atm it looks like a lost cause.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted August 29, 2015 04:20 PM

Galaad said:
oakwarrior said:
This is the same for all franchises. People expect every next CoD installment to be fancier, prettier with more guns and explosions. People expect the next Elder Scrolls to be even more immersive and impressive. And these expectations also lie in the visual presentation of the game, and it's a really big driving force and influences the general approval/disapproval of the game a great deal. But I digress

So then I don't understand, why didn't you guys corrected and improved the gameplay of h5, and give it gorgeous graphics? Why giving so much emphasis on the h6 way, the game which freed h4 from being the black sheep of the series ...


This bugs me as well...

@Verriker: Do not ever change man!

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keldaur
keldaur


Adventuring Hero
posted August 29, 2015 04:31 PM
Edited by keldaur at 16:32, 29 Aug 2015.

Are you happy with the AI ? Is there a patch you are playing internally that isn't the one we are playtesting ?

Because let's be honest, AI is not working. It doesn't pick up resources, it creates a snow ton of heroes just to feed you, and is just running around like a headless chicken doing nothing even in the hardest difficulty.

To me, reading that you are quite happy internally with the AI, if you don't talk about the specifics when the context i have is the AI right now (long turns, it's retarded) gives me the creeps.

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