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| Thread: Heroes 7 - Yea or Nay? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 29, 2015 03:30 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Minastir said:
yasmiel said:
TO me, the game looks/feels better than H6 did at this point. We will see whether feeling from the beta is same.
I think nobody denies that for sure it's going to be better than HVI, the question is, is it going to be better than heroes V ? ;>
That's a very high demand (for Ubi). I'd rather lower the expectations nearly to H4 rather than H5.
Well, Ubi did make H5, so I don't see why it is high expectations to at least expect them to meet that same level. But of course, it might necessitate a change in the lead game designer position before it happens ...
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What will happen now?
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted May 29, 2015 07:15 PM |
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To me, H6 was the greatest Heroes ever. At least they had duels where you could play a fair duel and a game only lasted half an hour, not a whole day.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted May 29, 2015 07:40 PM |
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alcibiades said:
EnergyZ said:
Minastir said:
yasmiel said:
TO me, the game looks/feels better than H6 did at this point. We will see whether feeling from the beta is same.
I think nobody denies that for sure it's going to be better than HVI, the question is, is it going to be better than heroes V ? ;>
That's a very high demand (for Ubi). I'd rather lower the expectations nearly to H4 rather than H5.
Well, Ubi did make H5, so I don't see why it is high expectations to at least expect them to meet that same level. But of course, it might necessitate a change in the lead game designer position before it happens ...
Well it is because they didn't have as much involvement in H5, since they were focused on other games and left development mostly free for Black Hole Entertainment.
Besides, seeing many faults already, at least they can make it to H4 level. H4, as fun as it was, had a different gameplay, which many did not like. That is if they fix battles (not to be too long), spells (give more diversity and more of them) and skills. H5 is just too high expectation; even some minor things they could've done have been scrapped (example: 7 tier system rather than 3 tier).
Kayna said:
To me, H6 was the greatest Heroes ever. At least they had duels where you could play a fair duel and a game only lasted half an hour, not a whole day.
So you think that H6 is great
Because of single Duels? Wow. What an argument.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted May 29, 2015 07:44 PM |
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icefield said:
EnergyZ said:
Minastir said:
yasmiel said:
TO me, the game looks/feels better than H6 did at this point. We will see whether feeling from the beta is same.
I think nobody denies that for sure it's going to be better than HVI, the question is, is it going to be better than heroes V ? ;>
That's a very high demand (for Ubi). I'd rather lower the expectations nearly to H4 rather than H5.
No, it isn't a high demand. You have to compare with H5 as it was at release time. That's a fair comparison - in both cases, a team develops the whole game from scratch, all mechanics, rules, content, code, AI, story, map structure, etc. Yes, they can look at H5 ToE, but still they are developing a new game. H7 may reuse some graphics design from H6, but that's not affecting the gameplay. Time frames are likely similar, budget might be higher now, but a large fraction goes into graphics.
Now, does anybody remember Heroes 5 in the state in which it was released?
- H5: a bugfest when finally released after beta phase, largely unplayable. First patches introduced new bugs at random. Fixed: late.
- H7: don't know yet, but at least they seem to be concerned.
- H5: skill system interesting but intransparent and unbalanced, too many restrictions, few choices. Fixed: yes, in ToE and fan-made skill wheel.
- H7: more simplistic, balancing still required, but much more than H3. There are possibilities to expand.
- H5: ultimate skills require unique build, unreachable in practice and dependent on crappy prereq. Fixed: partly (memory mentor)
- H7: GM skills somewhat bland, but plannable.
- H5: few spells in four schools, mixed usability. Fixed: more spells in expansions, but also two additional schools (warcries and runes).
- H7: again few spells, many schools. Has to be proven in game.
- H5: faction specials require ridiculous amount of micromanagement, unless you're really experienced and know what to do. Some are useless, some OP (necro). Fixed: partly in ToE
- H7: will have to see, clearly more simplistic.
- H5: gameplay is very slow due to clumsy 3D UI. Fixed: no
- H7: definitely better.
- H5: 3D town screens are great pieces of art, but entirely non-functional. Wasted half of the budget for beautiful animated wallpapers.
- H7: comparable to H3 (maybe not as good in style), which is ok.
- H5: anime creature design controversial (to say the least). Not fixed, we got used to it.
- H7: design overloaded with detail (and spikes), but ok.
- H5: hack-and-slash battles, unplannable random factor, initiative imbalance. Fixed: no, matter of taste.
- H7: apparently on the slow side, might need some speedup.
- H5: map editor was difficult, unusable for many. Fixed: slightly, and various map makers mastered it, later.
- H7: we'll see - at least it's based on a proven engine.
- H5: story and cutscenes are just hilarious and embarassing. Fixed: better in ToE
- H7: the pre-history told so far is convincing, suitable for a strategy war game. Let's hope for more in-game.
I stop here. I think H5 ToE has become a good game with lots of content. But at release time, no. It took months and years until things either got fixed or players got used to the more odd parts.
Yes, H7 vanilla won't be awesome at first, but it does have a good chance to be better than H5 release version. The main factors are the overall pace of the game, the real depth of the skill system etc. in-game, and the usability of the editor.
Edited: fixed H6 -> should read H7
Well, you have to consider H5 is the first Heroes game not to be made by NWC, so my guess is people have lowered their expectations due to the new company owning the rights.
However, as stated in above reply, H5 remained with a lot of mechanics similar to H3 and H2. H7 still has some mechanics reused from H6 (among other things). Just seeing, say icons, units, designs, spells, skills and artifacts being reused because "they don't have much money for development" already shakes the state of the game, much more than it should. All I am saying is Ubi should give more freedom to Limbic, who has to know what to take from H6 and what not.
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icefield
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 29, 2015 11:50 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Well, you have to consider H5 is the first Heroes game not to be made by NWC, so my guess is people have lowered their expectations due to the new company owning the rights.
At that time some fan expectations rocketed high after the first leaks, but people quickly got disappointed when the final game failed to meet them, opinions varied extremely. To everybody's surprise, Nival managed to regain solid reputation by releasing expansions. This didn't happen with Heroes 6.
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However, as stated in above reply, H5 remained with a lot of mechanics similar to H3 and H2.
Yes, but H5 became a completely different game derived from similar rules. H3 is about timing, placement and large-scale map control. Skill system and random elements are auxiliary. H5 requires smart deployment of skills, spells and abilities to be successful, and the random factor is often decisive. Nival had a clear vision that differed from NWC style, but required several releases to actually get there.
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H7 still has some mechanics reused from H6 (among other things).
I don't think they're reusing any actual code. They write a new game. Reusing generic ideas or graphics doesn't help for game mechanics, they have to make it real.
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Just seeing, say icons, units, designs, spells, skills and artifacts being reused because "they don't have much money for development" already shakes the state of the game, much more than it should.
I don't care, since I didn't play H6 - if I get H7 to run on a computer, it will be new 
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All I am saying is Ubi should give more freedom to Limbic, who has to know what to take from H6 and what not.
Maybe. From the public info, Ubi and Limbic appear to be working rather closely together. Some design decisions are entirely Ubi, but not all of them. They seem to share an idea of a game that is closer to H3 than to H5, and multiplayer-friendly, whatever that means. H3 and H5 are very different, so they had to take a decision. To really achieve their goals, they will need playing experience on all levels, and the courage to significantly modify game parts that feel slow or shallow.
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