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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Is Hypnotize spell totally useless in late game?!
Thread: Is Hypnotize spell totally useless in late game?! This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
swinm
swinm


Hired Hero
posted July 17, 2015 06:36 PM

Is Hypnotize spell totally useless in late game?!

Hypnotize has saved my tail - about 2 times in my life.

However, in the late game, is it totally useless?

Level 20 hero, level 30 magic skill.
Unit can be hypnotized: full HP < (power*25)+50
so full HP < 800 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Who won't have bigger stacks than 800 HP? It is completable in a few weeks.
If enemy has <800, then what is it? Some joined wandering units or useless level 1 units, you will always have a better spell to cast...

And the most 'important' enemy units are immunite to mind spells.
Can not block shooters.

Has Hypnotize ever saved your tail? Totally useless in the middle/late game, but can't be get very early, when it would be useful.

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markmasters
markmasters


Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
posted July 17, 2015 06:46 PM

It can be usefull if you lack blind, maintain control of last enemy unit to resurect your own.

Overall its a bad spell. It ain't alone, think of landmines, firewall (xcept for luna) inferno etc etc...

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted July 17, 2015 06:48 PM

No. It is useless for me. Berserk is way better spell.

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted July 17, 2015 09:10 PM

I think I never bothered to use that spell after some failed attempts when it should have been important.

In H4, that spell was, on the other hand, very powerful, useful and even cast-able on magic/mind immune units depending on your artifacts.
____________

Heroes-based proposal thread On hold, while I'm writing my book. =)

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted July 17, 2015 09:15 PM

In H4 it was over-powered I once hypnotized an enemy hero had him kill his army then kill himself.
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted July 17, 2015 09:18 PM

It is because it can only be used on units based on how much hit points (in total) they have. Berserk does not have that condition.

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batoonike
batoonike


Known Hero
posted July 17, 2015 11:09 PM

Someone once said something about opening castle door with hypnotized enemy. Also you may be abled to create a better wall of enemy units to protect your only shooter stack, if plaing vs AI on some hard map.

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted July 17, 2015 11:16 PM

It has a few uses but they aren't exactly around in multiplayer games. In certain campaigns it can serve some utility.
But I think even the  HoMM staff realised how weak it was considering how it turned out to be in HoMM IV, OP is not even strong enough for it there.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Known Hero
posted July 17, 2015 11:42 PM

Due to the way it's implemented (Power/Health requirement) it's pretty much always useless unless you design a scenario especially for it.

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted July 17, 2015 11:47 PM

In Heroes 5 it is one of best level 5 spells and being OP. Great vs large neutral stacks or difficult boss.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 17, 2015 11:52 PM

Is useless (or almost, it can be used to create living wall but needs a lot of reloads). Unless you allow the player to boost it, as I did.




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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted July 17, 2015 11:57 PM

Such spell can be either overpowering or useless. Unless you limit it to tiers (up to tier 3 for no skill and for expert skill to tier 6).

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted July 18, 2015 12:01 PM

And moved from level 3 to level 5. Maybe @Sal could separete your spell boost script from TEW IV into seperate mod?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 18, 2015 12:27 PM

Thats not easy, because of cost upgrade. Tor TEW it started at 50k and doubled with each upgrade, if I do this for a random map, player will never get third upgrade.

I think that spells upgrade should be part of game mechanics, and tied to specializations. A powerful mage should be allowed to study spells upgrade past a certain level, and each time he uses x spell for y successful times/one time battle allowed, the spell should improve, for only that hero. So let's say you cast hypnotize successful 20 times, if hypnotize is part of the magic school that mage choose to study, then it gets boosted. And so on/.  

Only this way you will get enough strong magic heroes to stand up to barbarians or beastmasters.

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eutow
eutow

Tavern Dweller
posted September 10, 2015 12:59 AM
Edited by eutow at 21:06, 10 Sep 2015.

I've played H3 for years and I don't think I've ever used this spell. Many times, I couldn't use it when I needed it in a serious battles so now I ignore it altogether.

Weird.

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xlnt
xlnt


Known Hero
posted September 10, 2015 05:47 PM

My best case scenario for the spell is getting 1 unit to open the gates during a siege battle.

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Maciek
Maciek


Known Hero
posted November 27, 2015 08:43 PM

Hypnotized defender's units can't open the gate in a siege.

Quote:
Who won't have bigger stacks than 800 HP?


All Naga Banks, Dragon Fly Hives and most of Griffin Conservatories. Often also Black and Gold Dragons in Utopias, but you can't Hypnotize them without an Orb of Vulnerability anyway.

My point is that in the late game, Astral (or any other scout with Wisdom if you happen to get Hypnotize somewhere) could safely (double morale on turn 1 is not exactly likely) take some of those objects with just several fodders and a bunch of power/knowledge artifacts that your main hero(es) wasn't using anyway.

So, if you spot a con/hive/bank in some remote corner of the map, perhaps you don't need to chain an army there, half decent Atrifacts plus some fodders and Hypnotize could be enough. And don't forget that artifacts are usually easier to chain than army, because a hero with them can retreat and be bought back in any tavern.

Situational? Sure. But not entirely useless.

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HeymlicH
HeymlicH


Known Hero
posted November 27, 2015 08:57 PM

Situational? Although I could think of situations, where this spell would be of some use, in over 1000 games it never happened to me. I consider it useless.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 27, 2015 09:20 PM

They handled it badly. People are probably trying several times in their early games to cast hypnotize, naturally it does not work, because it requires precise HP limit, then they give up later and consider it useless. In Hota they coded it to show the exact HP you will hypnotize, then I coded same feature for Era/WoG, and now I hope the spell is much easier to handle.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
SCURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted November 27, 2015 10:33 PM

Gryphs said:
In H4 it was over-powered I once hypnotized an enemy hero had him kill his army then kill himself.



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