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| Thread: Is Hypnotize spell totally useless in late game?! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted May 24, 2016 10:15 PM |
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In H3: Underpowered
In H4: Overpowered.
A few things to note about hypnotize in H3:
Hypnotize uses the enemy's stat ratings. Thus a creature from a Barberian Hero will do more damage than one from a Wizard.
You can attack the hypnotized unit with your own units but not the other way around unless the 2nd target is also under influence of hypnotize. The enemy cannot attack his own hypnotized unit however attacks like Death Cloud will still do damage.
If you have a unit hypnotized and the enemy strikes down your last unit, you will automatically lose.
You do not keep a hypnotized creature if the enemy chose to flee or surrender, they are also not lost for the enemy if you flee or surrender with the unit under your spell.
Unlike attack and defense values from the Hero remaining, Morale and Luck is changed to the spellcaster's statistics.
Unit Speed will be determined per normal. If you and the enemy has 2x grand elves split in two stacks of 1x and the first player hypnotizes enemy grand elf N1, the turn will go to player 1 and then again to player 1's grand elf N2 before finally letting player 2 act last with grand elf N2.
If a unit of each side is under influence of hypnotize and a player cast a mass spell like Armageddon, both players lose if all units die.
A hypnotized unit can use its spells, for example you can resurrect a dead stack using a hypnotized Arch Angel, buff/debuff with Enchanter's or Master Genies.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted May 25, 2016 12:08 PM |
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Ebonheart said:
If you have a unit hypnotized and the enemy strikes down your last unit, you will automatically lose.
UUUooooaaa!!! So, it's dangerous to use it instead of Blind for the resurrect trick. 
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted May 25, 2016 01:43 PM |
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It's also dangerous to use if your morale is low because you lose 1 turn of the spell even if the monster gets negative morale. However the hypnotized unit gets its morale from the hero, but is not affected by the creatures of that hero. For instance a Grand Elf with 1+ morale gets mind controlled by a enemy hero with 0 morale modifiers, will have 0 morale even if the hero has a undead ghost dragon in the ranks.
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SllemsIahs
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 21, 2020 08:22 PM |
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quote name=swinm]Hypnotize has saved my tail - about 2 times in my life.
However, in the late game, is it totally useless?
Level 20 hero, level 30 magic skill.
Unit can be hypnotized: full HP < (power*25)+50
so full HP < 800 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who won't have bigger stacks than 800 HP? It is completable in a few weeks.
If enemy has <800, then what is it? Some joined wandering units or useless level 1 units, you will always have a better spell to cast...
And the most 'important' enemy units are immunite to mind spells.
Can not block shooters.
Has Hypnotize ever saved your tail? Totally useless in the middle/late game, but can't be get very early, when it would be useful.
I'm by no means an expert at the game but I recently lost a PvP matchup due to hypnotize.
Context: I attacked enemy in castle. He had ~45 Naga Queens, ~30 wizards, and 2-3 very weak stacks. I had full Dungeon army: 10 black dragons, 15 scorpicore, 40 minator king, ~60 Medusa queen, ~30 harpy hag, 90+ evil eye, ~6 genies. My level 10 hero had ~20 Mana and limited spells. Enemy level 12 hero had ~20 spell power, endless mana (Mana vortex) and many 1-3 spells, including hypnotize.
Battle result: Enemy won with 1 Naga queen left.
Hypnotize was the difference maker: Enemy systematically threw attack magic at my various stacks, and once he could cuz my stack's HP was lowered, he hypnotized the stacks. Unsure why but my catapult was beyond hopeless so there wasn't a break in his wall until round 6+. Hardly mattered, as the enemy systematically Hypnotized my harpies, then both archers, and when Minator went for the hole in the wall, damage from moat reduced HP enough that enemy hypotized them as well. The last 5 rounds were a a disagrace (for me) as Enemy had ~4 of my stacks hypnotized, so I was a bystander as enemy had hypnotized stacks kill each other off to end the battle.
Beyond entering battle w more Mana, and saving my spells for Dispell/Cure to counteract Hyponotize, plus somehow more aggressively/faster attacking to prevent a drawn out battle that played to his mama/spell advantage... I'm not sure what I could have done to win...
...Hypnotize was overpowering.
Welcome your feedback!
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 21, 2020 09:57 PM |
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I am not sure it was Hypnotize that made the difference here, I would be more worried about 20 Power and Mana Vortex.
Hypnotize is not the worst spell, but it is very situational. Blind usually does a better job and is easier to learn and cheaper to cast.
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SllemsIahs
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 22, 2020 07:25 AM |
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Hyponotize has a major advantage to Blind that you control the targeted enemy stack, and can use that controlled unit to attack/move-strategically, not only ala Blind incapacitate.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 22, 2020 07:39 AM |
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Yes but Hypnotize has a very low hp limit, Blind has no limit.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted August 22, 2020 11:48 AM |
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I like Phoenix, I understand his theories. But the view isn't easy, is it?
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 22, 2020 11:52 AM |
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted August 22, 2020 11:57 AM |
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Good theory. But you still need to develop..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 22, 2020 11:59 AM |
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Hourglass
Famous Hero
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posted August 22, 2020 02:11 PM |
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@SllemsIahs
Looks like your opponent found some good use for Hypnotize, sounds pretty epic battle you two were having. I got to agree with Phoenix and say that Hypnotize in general is very poor spell, and probably this kind of defensive battle inside castle is pretty much the only real scenario the spell can realistically be put into good use, as the defending player can use the low hp stacks for blocking.
I think NWC didn't quite understand how to make Hypnotize very viable, as it seems that it was treated like damaging spell. IMO it seems Hypnotize is kinda always lacking compared to the state of the game: once you receive it, you're already wishing to fight against pretty moderate enemies, and taking control of a weakned stack is not really going to benefit the player. In the later states of the game stacks have insane amounts of HP, and player is totally unable to gain anything out of the Hypnotize. Stacks with 1000+ hp in them would need around 40 spell power, so luring them to your side is not going to happen. Also, even if one could be able to hypnotize large stacks, usually using berserk does the same thing better.
Hypnotize should have had the flat bonus given to be 100 instead of 10, and the adv. and expert flat bonuses should have been increased accordingly. Then the spell could have seen a last bit more play in the last 20 years.
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SllemsIahs
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 22, 2020 05:37 PM |
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@ohoenix and @hourglass,
Thanks for the feedback. Im not proud to say I set myself up for the perfect situation for Hypnotize to be effective. Good to hear what you both wrote and I'll look fwd to not letting this happen to me again ;+)
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Barbuta
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 22, 2020 06:50 PM |
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One interesting and not that well known effect of hypnotize is:
If you attack an enemy hero which has the pendant of negativity you can't cast lightning bold/chain lightning on his troops. But if you hypnotize his troops (and you also don't have pendant of negativity), then you can cast lightning bolt on his troops.
Same goes for pendant of life and death ripple and pendant of death and destroy undead. Probably also true for the other pendants but I haven't tested it.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 22, 2020 07:01 PM |
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So basically you remove their immunities from artifacts, while they are hypnotized? I never heard about that.
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted August 27, 2020 11:12 AM |
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RoseKavalier showed that in his puzzle map called Deep Dungeon.
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Gigel_the_Skel
Hired Hero
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posted April 28, 2021 12:11 AM |
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If the opponent decides to arma attack you, he has shakles of war and you have hypnotise and ressurection, it will be in handy if you don't have blind.
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Hourglass
Famous Hero
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posted April 28, 2021 05:42 PM |
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It turns out there's some usage for hypnotize in multiplayer. It is used to steal your opponents speed priority to cast spells, perhaps even negating your opponent to cast spells in the current round, if he chose to wait until the very end of the turn to cast. Usually the targets for Hypnotize are one-stack Silver Pegasi or Dragon Fly or such, so the bad scaling of the spell doesn't really show there.
It's still very niche play, thou.
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