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| Thread: Skillwheels: an overview |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 08, 2015 01:46 PM |
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PROJ said:
The faction specific skills work with all creatures. Mixing and matching heroes and factions is encouraged heavily.
Hm, I understood differently, but I didn't get much first-hand experience. I didn't really test it in beta-1 and for beta-2 I simply had too little time (even with the extension).
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 08, 2015 03:13 PM |
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Indeed, it does.
Thing I tried was playing Sylvans with a Dark Elf hero - and that worked quite alright.
There are limits, of course (the growth specialists!), but actually, if your Haven Mage Guild produces a lot of Earth spells beside the Light and Prime you probably picked, a Sylvan hero may be exactly the thing you need, especially when you went Economy and Diplomacy route in the beginning. I mean - think about it: Piercing Shot with Sylvan Marks? Not THAT bad ... And those Guardians.
That aspect of the game has some potential.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 08, 2015 04:28 PM |
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but isn't that much of mixing defeats the purpose of selecting a specific faction/hero? i can see the merits but, it seems so ... inconsistent.it's like seeing a nice blue tile and a huge drop of smth else on it!
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 08, 2015 04:36 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 16:37, 08 Sep 2015.
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I see a chicken-and-egg problem here. Before you've reached your level 4 Mage Guild, the game will have advanced relatively far already. You're likely to have settled for a main Hero by then - only to find that the spells may not match the offer of the Mage Guild. So in that case either you can't make use of the spells, or you have to switch your main Hero. Neither seems opportune.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 08, 2015 04:40 PM |
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You can certainly make a case for both, but considering the, err, limitations and shortcomings of the skill and magic situation, my impression is, that this is spicing things up a lot.
For example - there have always been preferred heroes, setting up the game, but after realizing that you CAN take every hero at all, the aforementioned Dark Elf Sylvan game was the result of me actually picking the GOVERNOR hero and let fate decide the rest. I picked Ciele (I think), and then hired Eruina (+10 Leadership special, Offense and DM as GMs), and that worked quite nicely.
So this is sort of fun - more often than not more fun, at least, than seeing the magic shortcomings of your faction's heroes and then look at the mage guilds...
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PROJ
Known Hero
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posted September 08, 2015 04:41 PM |
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Maurice said:
I see a chicken-and-egg problem here. Before you've reached your level 4 Mage Guild, the game will have advanced relatively far already. You're likely to have settled for a main Hero by then - only to find that the spells may not match the offer of the Mage Guild. So in that case either you can't make use of the spells, or you have to switch your main Hero. Neither seems opportune.
Well, since most factions get two schools guaranteed each level, you know what level IV spells you will get. In that case, you can build around those spells and roll with the punches on the weaker spells. Comes down more to spell balancing than anything else imo.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 08, 2015 04:44 PM |
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Maurice said:
I see a chicken-and-egg problem here. Before you've reached your level 4 Mage Guild, the game will have advanced relatively far already. You're likely to have settled for a main Hero by then - only to find that the spells may not match the offer of the Mage Guild. So in that case either you can't make use of the spells, or you have to switch your main Hero. Neither seems opportune.
No, that's not the problem, on the contrary, because you will pick your hero(es) with a view on what your guild has and you pick the second magic school with a view on your heroes.
For example, Sylvan's main school is Earth, and because the Dark ones are Elves as well, they CAN Earth - only they also can Dark. Academy Heroes are also pretty versatile.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted September 08, 2015 05:25 PM |
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Edited by Steyn at 17:26, 08 Sep 2015.
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I think a haven hero could also be of great use with sylvan (at least when they fix the master hunter's morale issue). With those sun deer I imagine one can get a very high chance at good morale. As if master hunters weren't over powered enough already 
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 08, 2015 08:40 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 20:41, 08 Sep 2015.
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JollyJoker said:
No, that's not the problem, on the contrary, because you will pick your hero(es) with a view on what your guild has and you pick the second magic school with a view on your heroes.
For example, Sylvan's main school is Earth, and because the Dark ones are Elves as well, they CAN Earth - only they also can Dark. Academy Heroes are also pretty versatile.
I'm not following you. At the start of the game, you don't know what you're going to get at the higher Tiers of the guild. You only know that for instance, Earth is pretty much guaranteed for Sylvan, so you can at least narrow it down to Heroes that can use Earth Magic. But other than that, it's up for grabs. Only once you open up the higher Tiers do you know which Magic skills will be useful - and therefore, which Heroes will be of higher benefit to you and which ones won't - but at that point, the game has already advanced quite a bit, especially on smaller maps. Or am I missing something here? Can you elaborate a bit more?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 08, 2015 08:55 PM |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 08, 2015 09:14 PM |
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Right.
Real example. So I picked Ciele as my hero for governor start. I then found Eruina suitable, having a GM in Dark and an M in Earth. Earth being the favored Sylvan magic skill, I simply picked Dark as second favored - voila. Not possible with Sylvan hero, but a blast with her, the guild giving Earth and Dark spells on each but the last level.
Awesome, actually, thinking about Treants getting Malassa's Shroud. 
Anyway - this gives a lot of options that we didn't have in any other HoMM game, and as much as I cringe at a couple - well several, actually - of the design decisions, oh, and as much as I'm not even sure whether this is a deliberate effect, it's doubtlessly a redeeming feature.
I'm currently localize-debugging the full version and I have to say it's not as bad as I thought it would be, thanks to a lot of really interesting options.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 08, 2015 09:22 PM |
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Right, I forgot about that aspect there. But is the specialisation a guarantee? I remember choosing it in beta 1 but ending up with spells of different schools at Tier 4. Since I didn't do a depth analysis of that aspect of the game back then, I never figured out if it was simply a bug or intended behaviour (that the specialisation only increased the odds for spells of that school, instead of setting it to 100%).
Regardless, I understand what you mean now. It's a nice thing I guess to pre-select the Heroes you wish to play, but then you're down to some luck with the Tavern options. I know Stevie was fulminating against Elvin's influence on Hero choices there, but this does put it in a slightly different light  .
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 08, 2015 09:34 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 21:41, 08 Sep 2015.
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Faction specialization has primacy before your own specialization of choice. So Haven would get T4 Light, Dungeon T4 Dark, and so on. Needs to get fixed with 2x T4 spells, but for that we need more of them. So... expansions.
And I was only "fulminating" at Elvin because I find it odd to be able to get even three heroes of one different faction, but not even two of your own starting faction. Stupid design. What's the point in prohibiting that? Balance? I think there were alternatives, really.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 08, 2015 09:44 PM |
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Stevie said:
And I was only "fulminating" at Elvin because I find it odd to be able to get even three heroes of one different faction, but not even two of your own starting faction. Stupid design. What's the point in prohibiting that? Balance? I think there were alternatives, really.
Agreed, doesn't make sense to have one Haven and three Dungeon heroes in tavern when playing Haven. Should be locked to four different factions if we don't want two of the starting faction.
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What will happen now?
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 01:26 AM |
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Too bad I didn't had time to play much, I'll surely try this hero twisting.
According to recent rumors, fortress is the first candidate for an expansion, so I guess we'll see more fire and light first, more destiny GMs would prob come with inferno?
But now, I wonder what they plan for h4 campaigns, if they would add some kind of infernopolis vibe or something for these hehe
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted September 18, 2015 02:26 PM |
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Archon and Mystic skillwheels are available now.
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 18, 2015 02:39 PM |
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archon (neutral hero) got defence gm, embalmer got economy gm. :S
Still think they are switched. lol
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted September 18, 2015 03:46 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 16:08, 18 Sep 2015.
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JollyJoker said:
I'm currently localize-debugging the full version and I have to say it's not as bad as I thought it would be, thanks to a lot of really interesting options.
Are you debugging the full game , really?
Tell me they changed specialization to +att/def instead of growth.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 18, 2015 03:48 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 15:48, 18 Sep 2015.
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Dies_Irae said:
Archon and Mystic skillwheels are available now.
I'll update the master post when I get the chance. I am kinda swamped at the moment  .
Thanks for the headsup though  .
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 18, 2015 06:19 PM |
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No Light Magic in Mystic ... WTH? 
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