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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Map Editor is even worse than H6
Thread: Map Editor is even worse than H6 This thread is 12 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · «PREV / NEXT»
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted October 01, 2015 12:01 AM

frostymuaddib said:
I prefer H5 scripting, as you actually have a proper script language


I agree, but then again I do enjoy programming from time to time. Even if I didn't know the syntax of the H5 editor right away, it was easy enough to grasp due to experience with other programming languages.

I'll have to see what can and cannot be done, I guess. I do have a number of ideas for maps, but they really hinge on all sorts of scripted stuff to make them interesting (for instance, triggers based on number of days past, both in absolute sense as well as relative from certain player-triggered events ingame).

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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted October 01, 2015 12:04 AM

Maurice said:
[...] (for instance, triggers based on number of days past, both in absolute sense as well as relative from certain player-triggered events ingame).

Time-based mechanics are for sure in game. In first Haven mission an enemy hero appears 18 days after you capture the only city on map.

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted October 01, 2015 11:01 AM
Edited by natalka at 14:51, 01 Oct 2015.

trying to make following thing: build magic level 1 in town then all other levels are automatically built.

- condition : player has built building simply doesn`t work.

at least player has learnt any spell works

It worked but player has to exit magic guild and re-enter. More neat solution would be to build all 4 level right away.

EDIT:

- I fiddled enough to say give artifact to hero doesn`t work. If Marzhin can shed light how to make it work it would be nice. Otherwise I see many of the functions even in the 'Expert' mode don`t work.Kismet

- No option to change creature pool dynamically. No moving of map objects either.


All in all I think I can do less than with H6 editor only thing that is better is the foilage randomizer tool. But most players don`t care about map aesthetics but content.

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Herry
Herry


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
100% Devil
posted October 01, 2015 02:09 PM

In order to decide which is worse, why not do some tests in specific areas? Wish I could do them, but I don't have the game so I can't(and I won't buy it because I can't, like with other games).

For example, a group of people do tests on:

*Potential power(how much the Editor can do)

*Presentation(honestly nobody even gives a crap about that, but to make it fair for casuals...)

*Ease of Use(how easy it is to use)

*User Adaptability(More time needed to learn how to use = lesser rating)

*Overall flaws(the more this rating is, the more negatively it affects the final score).

You might do these with a group of people and decide an averege, or do them i more detail or whatever, I'm just suggesting an idea.

If you do that, I'd recommend comparing the editors with these areas, because it's a pain in the ass to come up with a fair algorithm to decide final scores.

If you think this is gibberish, move on. That way we both know my suggestion is bad and not waste time commenting on that.
____________

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Marzhin
Marzhin

Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
posted October 01, 2015 06:12 PM

natalka said:
I fiddled enough to say give artifact to hero doesn`t work. If Marzhin can shed light how to make it work it would be nice. Otherwise I see many of the functions even in the 'Expert' mode don`t work.Kismet


Here's a sequence that works. Basically 80% chance to get nothing on visit, and 20% to get a specific artefact (with a text telling you what happened).

A useful tip is that when you create an event in the Script Tool, it also creates the corresponding Kismet sequence. It's a good way to study how Kismet scripts work in H7. For instance, you have to create an Object variable connecting Instigator (in the trigger) and Interactive Army (in the Action).



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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted October 01, 2015 06:24 PM

Marzhin said:
A useful tip is that when you create an event in the Script Tool, it also creates the corresponding Kismet sequence. It's a good way to study how Kismet scripts work in H7. For instance, you have to create an Object variable connecting Instigator (in the trigger) and Interactive Army (in the Action).


Learn by example is always good.

Marzhin, are scripts of the campaign maps and such available in the editor, even if only to read (not edit)? It could be a fount of information with what you can do with the editor.

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Marzhin
Marzhin

Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
posted October 01, 2015 06:33 PM
Edited by Marzhin at 18:34, 01 Oct 2015.

Maurice said:
Marzhin, are scripts of the campaign maps and such available in the editor, even if only to read (not edit)? It could be a fount of information with what you can do with the editor.


I think the campaign maps are packaged to reduce space and as a result are locked (or "cooked" in Unreal jargon), unfortunately.
But I'll check with the level design team if they can share some examples of how some things were done, maybe release one of the campaign map as an example.

There's also my "Blood on the Bay" map that will be released on the Shadow Council in a few days, and mapmakers will be able to open it and see how it's done (it's not a very complicated map, though, but it demonstrates some basic functions).

Trying to think out of the box, I've came up with a (dirty but functional) way to actually reward random artefacts

Next to the visitable shell, I've put two random artefact piles, one Minor and one Major. I added a script to hide these piles at map launch (hidden objects are not interactive). Then I tweaked the script shared before to reveal one of the artefacts. So there's now 80% chance of getting nothing, 15% chance of getting (revealing) the Minor artefact and 5% chance of getting (revealing) the Major artefact.

It's not ideal, and won't replace a proper Add Random Artefact function, but it works

Here's the Kismet sequence.

(edit: in this sequence one of the < should actually be a <=, but you get the idea)

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted October 01, 2015 06:43 PM
Edited by natalka at 18:46, 01 Oct 2015.

yeah such dirty tricks I used in heroes VI editor. Can we expect proper random artifact acquisition in this editor in a future patch?

More HOT topic for me is champion creature dwelling. If you give an idea about it I will start making my map..damn!

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Marzhin
Marzhin

Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
posted October 01, 2015 07:02 PM

natalka said:
yeah such dirty tricks I used in heroes VI editor. Can we expect proper random artifact acquisition in this editor in a future patch?


I certainly hope so. That and proper functions to add XP, spells, skills, etc. I've been requesting those for a while, but the team has been super busy with the release. Now that the game is out I can nag them with it again

natalka said:
More HOT topic for me is champion creature dwelling. If you give an idea about it I will start making my map..damn!


So you want the player to be able to choose which creature will appear in the dwelling, right?

I'd use a similar trick, actually -- Having two versions of the dwellings, invisible, and two shells to either build a Cyclops dwelling or a Behemoth dwelling. And when you interact with one of them, the dwelling appears and the other shell is hidden (and thus cannot be activated).

Again, that's dirty, but having a choice to change the properties of the dwelling on the fly would require both new code and UI so I don't think it can be added in a short time frame.

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted October 01, 2015 07:22 PM
Edited by natalka at 20:04, 01 Oct 2015.

Nice trick but what exactly will be those shells that the player will interact with? Even if you put a 'prop' creature you will have to put for every faction with IF statements which leads me to the next question. Is there a way to check faction of player?

Abandoned mine is not far reach then. I put all mines of top of each other random number to decide outcome but I don`t have viable props for the mine. I suppose I can copy haunted ruins and change how it looks on the adventure map but can I change guards according to fixed presets based on random chance?



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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted October 01, 2015 08:03 PM

Thanks for the info, Marzhin, appreciated.

I've got some serious ideas for a campaign across all available factions and have the global story line figured out. Recently started to put some thought into the flow of the first faction.

One of the maps will feature the player having to remain on friendly terms with an AI player but in the mean time plot a betrayal. As such, the player can't intercept nosey AI Heroes with his main Hero or his faction creatures, but he can employ a Hero (+army) from another faction to keep up appearances. For that purpose, as soon as battle begins, I need to check the player's army and see if any forbidden Hero or units are in the mix - and if so, fail the scenario right there.

Is such a check against Hero Faction and creature Faction of its army possible?

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Marzhin
Marzhin

Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
posted October 01, 2015 10:44 PM

Maurice said:
Is such a check against Hero Faction and creature Faction of its army possible?


It is possible to check if an army has specific types of creatures, but I don't think you can check for a specific faction.
It's possible to check the faction of a town by checking the faction of the buildings it contains (for instance if it has an Academy Village Hall it's safe to say the town is Academy), but I don't think I've seen a condition for a hero's faction or class. Maybe I've just missed it.
Something else to the list of things to add ASAP then

So far I have listed the following:

Conditions:

- Hero Class is...
- Hero has skill/spell/ability/specialization...
- Player's Faction is...
- Hero's Faction is...
- Army X contains creatures of Faction Y
- Town X is of faction Y (can be done by checking the faction of the buildings, but there should be a simpler way)
- AdvMap Dwelling or Fort X is of faction Y


Actions:

- Add XP to Hero
- Add Skill to Hero
- Add Spell to Hero
- Add random Artefact (with options to limit it to one or more categories: Minor / Major / Relic / Consumable)
- Change available creatures in Adventure Map dwelling
- Change Creature Pool (in AdvMap dwellings and town dwellings)
- Change global XP gain (for instance reduce it to 70%)

Don't hesitate to tell me if you think of other things.

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted October 01, 2015 10:49 PM

Is it possible to have a condition based on solely the heroes name, such as hero is so-and-so?
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted October 01, 2015 10:51 PM
Edited by Stevie at 22:52, 01 Oct 2015.

Any area based conditions and effects?

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted October 01, 2015 11:07 PM
Edited by natalka at 13:40, 02 Oct 2015.

Marzhin are you sure about that Academy Town Hall things because today when I worked on the magic guilds I set magic guild level 1 from basic script editor and when I went to Kismet and checked the name of the building it said dungeon magic guild level 1. It worked with any town though.

To add to your list

bugs/problems

- In a random town I can`t set the prebuilt dwellings (basic editor)

- we need more props - we are not 3d designers but mapmakers - can you describe a way to add a prop from content browser from expert mode to the visitable shell list in basic editor


actions
- add dwellings to a town dynamically in a more easy fashion not by checking town faction and a huge if-then statement

- remove hero from a certain faction from tavern - if developers don`t remove the 2 native heroes from tavern I must come up with a script and balance this

- proper dialog type alerts where the player chooses which rewards he wants. Something like Sphinx in heroes 5.

- change creatures in magic menagerie based on random chance from a list of creatures(core, strong core, elite, strong elite, champion will suffice). Allow upgraded checkmark.
I fiddled with it and though I set random core creature from two allowed factions it seems it only spawns from the first faction. Moreover I get the same creature every week.

Conditions

- is day of the week

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted October 01, 2015 11:58 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 23:59, 01 Oct 2015.

Do you already have these?

Conditions:

- Monster at X,Y,L position is of type Y;

- Monster X is of Y faction?

- Monster X is of Y level?

- Monster X has Y hability?

or

- List of monster X habilities?

Actions

- Increase growth of monsters at X,Y,L position by Z day D;

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted October 02, 2015 12:38 AM
Edited by Maurice at 14:01, 02 Oct 2015.

Marzhin said:
It is possible to check if an army has specific types of creatures, but I don't think you can check for a specific faction.


What do you mean by type? Tier? Or Ranged / Melee? A check against name would work for me too, because I have a specific faction in mind that the player can use to intercept the AI Heroes - hence, the list of creature names would work just as well.

It's good to see you're taking notes . Much appreciated! Can't think of anything right now, mostly due to the time here (past midnight ), but if something pops up in my mind, I'll post it here.

Update:
An important one: a check against Hero Level ("Hero needs to be level 10 or higher to enter...").

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted October 02, 2015 02:39 PM
Edited by natalka at 14:45, 02 Oct 2015.

Battle sites

Currently they are mess (see below) but the good thing is unlike h6 editor you can set predefined army -> predefined rewards. Another interesting option is you can set individual growth inside. For example you have 20 Sand Wyverns which grow by 2 per week and 2 Cyclops fixed. I like h3 ambush style in Elemental Forge. So that`s it on the good side now issues :

- when I set my dragon utopia to give more artifacts than the predefined one the UI is broken with flying artifacts

- option to completely remove the exact army and exact reward - that would be super cool. This will fix the first issue.

Marzhin, can we expect more interesting and creative armies in the battle sites or we will have to mod everything ourselves.

examples:
Elemental Forge
army 1 - 8 of each elemental
army 2 - 10 of each elemental
army 3 - 12 of each elemental

In heroes 5 they were 5-10-15-20 which gave more and more resources. Now all rewards are the same and same for resources. Further problem is we can mod only predefined army -> artifact reward but resources stay the same for all armies.

Dangerous cave
only one army..10 Sand Wyverns 1 Cyclops 1 Behemoth. I like the theme here maybe because my favorite faction is Stronghold. Regarding modding we have a problem again because we can`t add more predefined armies.

Something is very wrong there..

Dragon Utopia
Green Dragon(Emerald)
Bone Dragon(Spectal)
Shadow Dragon
Gold Dragon

army 1 = [6,4,3,2] army 2= [6,4,4,2] army 3= [7,6,5,3] Second and third army have upgraded versions.

Here you got more creative and the armies really grow but not much. Army 3 has 5 more dragons than army 2 while the other has only one dragon more. With this variety in dragons I suggest you make one Gold Dragonish utopia, one Emerald Dragonish etc. and also increase number of dragons a bit. This will be very diverse. By Gold Dragonish I mean 12 Gold Dragons 4 Emeralds 3 Shadow Dragons 3 Spectrals. Rewards stay the same for all armies..what a shame and moreover everybody here knows the feeling to get two relics from utopia and your reward stays the same for all armies: 1 relic 1 major 1 minor and 2 scrolls

Shantiri Ruins

4 x 120 Shantiri golems
2 x 5 Shantiri Titans
Same as dangerous cave - only one prefixed army, can`t mod ..


Haunted Ruins

3 x 150 Skeletons
1 x 200 Skeleton Hoplites
2 x 200 Ghosts
1 x 10 Vampires

Same as above..

Crusader Commandery

2 x 50 Sentinel
1 x 50 Legionnaire
1 x 50 Crossbowmen
1 x 30 Dire Wolf
1 x 15 Guardian

Same as above but at least here we can mod and add more armies.

To sum up I saw many people sharing my opinion that these should be changed I hope you will listen to us and make the appropriate changes.

Regardless modding... let`s hope we won`t need modding but even in the basic editor we need the option to hide army/rewards. Then next important issue is that resources can`t be scaled and the last is to give us opportunity to add more predef. armies to the sites which currently don`t have.

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted October 02, 2015 03:24 PM

Marzhin has a lot of courage to post here after Heroes 7's flop launch.

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TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 02, 2015 03:47 PM

About RMG, how can I make "normal"(open) maps with it? All mine seem to come up as tight passage making 60-80% of the map basically areas you can't access(was very bad on big maps). I never seem to get any water either. I also have no idea how to switch to/from underground(I read all options and buttons I could find/see). And is it going to be possible at some point to generate map in-game like h5? or at the very least "hide" the map when I create it(or same kind of mini-map version as in h5)?

And just in general I noticed you can create artifacts, but why is that only for scenarios???(or for scenarios it says at least)

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