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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Worst skill (HOMM3)
Thread: Worst skill (HOMM3) This thread is 10 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT»
fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted March 10, 2016 05:10 PM

Maurice said:
Could it be that when you generate a random map, there's an underlaying template dictating Witch Hut skill probabilities?


that's what i was thinking.

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BlackMagik
BlackMagik


Adventuring Hero
posted March 10, 2016 09:52 PM

Where would an underlying template be loaded in from? I have the Ubisoft H3 Complete (3-game pack), unmodded, and unpatched...

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted March 10, 2016 10:06 PM
Edited by Maurice at 22:13, 10 Mar 2016.

BlackMagik said:
Where would an underlying template be loaded in from? I have the Ubisoft H3 Complete (3-game pack), unmodded, and unpatched...


Then I don't know, honestly. Hopefully one of our Mod Maestro's can answer that one .

I just ran some tests with a hexagon shaped formation of 28 Witch Huts (27 in a semi-3-ring hex and one just outside the ring; all 28 skills preset in a Witch Hut) and let loose a Knight and a Cleric with maximum movement (all movement artifacts and a single Azure Dragon) and no skills whatsoever. The map was a normal brown-dirt map, no water.

I couldn't make much sense of their selection. They always picked up Logistics and Ballistics. The Knight usually also picked up Offense and often Armorer. Other than that, starting position relative to the various Witch Huts seemed to influence their choice. Although they usually picked the same skills depending on their starting spot, I did observe a few random picks. One thing that thorougly surprised me was that in all tests, the Cleric never picked up any of the four Magic Schools or Wisdom. In return, though, the Knight sometimes picked up Scholar and Mysticism. The Cleric picked up Navigation a few times, despite there being no water on the map at all.

In my initial few runs, all Witch Huts were unknown. The AI apparently didn't know either, as it just raced along all of them in sequence, opening them all (with 28 skills but only 8 slots, it wouldn't open the remaining 12 once it filled up both Heroes, if it was not interested in opening them). Apparently, opening up a Witch Hut is more important than picking up a desired skill from an already opened Witch Hut. So I decided to open them all up instead, before the first AI turn. That did change its pattern completely, although as said above, I couldn't make much sense out of its selection choice. Perhaps it decided on the most optimal path along the various skills available, including path length in its consideration on what skills to pick up and which to ignore.

Update: I realised I had not given the Cleric any spells. Once I filled up her Spellbook with all spells, it suddenly started picking up Wisdom and Air Magic consistently.

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted March 10, 2016 11:31 PM

I often pick Mysticism. There can be situations when you loose all mana and there is no well. Or used DD and have no mana to leave isolated area.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 10, 2016 11:40 PM

Thanks for the testing Maurice. Sounds like you tested it pretty thoroughly. At least there is some reason for the way it picks it's skills. (except choosing Navigation on a non-water map)

@macron1 I think Mysticism can be okay in the beginning of a map, but later it's pretty useless and it pales compared to Intelligence.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted March 11, 2016 12:07 AM

Mysticism is only useful for slightly larger mana pools and with spells. The Knight had no spellbook, no spells and just 10 mana. The Cleric changed the skill priority based on the presence of a spellbook with spells, so why would the Knight select Mysticism when it held no spellbook with spells to begin with?

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 11, 2016 12:27 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 08:40, 11 Mar 2016.

Yeah if he did'nt even have a spell book, picking Mysticism seems very stupid. But in a normal scenario almost all ai heroes will have a spell book and some spells, unless they are might heroes bought in taverns outside of towns or freed from prisons.
I actually think all might heroes should have "been born" with a spell book, they don't even need a starting spell, but a spell book so could at least learn spells.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted March 11, 2016 11:21 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 11:27, 11 Mar 2016.

phoenix4ever said:
A hero with Learning, First Aid and Eagle Eye is not a good hero, humans know this, but ai does'nt know the value of skills.

In my map I am giving AI might heroes to start but there are good modified magic heroes in the prisons around their starting area. Often AI chooses to develop a magic hero instead of the initial might one (like Grindan instead of Monere) despise the first one having better bonus prims. I guess AI has a strong preference for magic heroes even if we came to believe the might ones are better,

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 11, 2016 12:39 PM

Maybe because it's so fond of casting damaging spells (and Blind) it prefers magic heroes? It will sometimes cast mass spells, but it's pretty rare in my experience.
If ai picked some more magic schools (and casted the right spells) I bet it would be a better opponent.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted March 11, 2016 04:19 PM

phoenix4ever said:
If ai picked some more magic schools (and casted the right spells) I bet it would be a better opponent.

That one I solved in my map but I bet you quited before facing any AI hero, if you didn't found any Azure Dragons.
Belive me, if they have Haste, Slow and Shield and both Air and Earth, they wont be casting magic arrows.
And as a mapmaker you shouldn't complain about this problems, they are easy to solve. Just put some shirines with the right spells (Shield, Slow, Haste and Cure or Dispel) and witch huts giving Air, Earth, Offense and Armourer and you will see how it play's differently.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 11, 2016 04:34 PM

Yes I know, but I don't always wan't to start at the same place or make special rules or regards for ai.
The ai should be able to handle it self and not have the map maker be it's babysitter.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted March 11, 2016 04:50 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 16:53, 11 Mar 2016.

phoenix4ever said:
The ai should be able to handle it self and not have the map maker be it's babysitter.

There also shouldn't be hunger in the world but things are what they are. If you want a better AI just turn it into it, me and Sal already did it.
I have another picture for you, from last night. One of the thoughest battles I ever won...

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 11, 2016 04:57 PM

Yeah that looks like a tough fight, guess you did'nt win it unharmed.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted March 12, 2016 01:09 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 13:14, 12 Mar 2016.

phoenix4ever said:
Yeah that looks like a tough fight, guess you did'nt win it unharmed.


No. She got some pandora boxes I had set for the second part of the game, now I change it to quests over their lifes...


About AI not recognizing the combination artifacts, I just killed a guy and assembled not one but three Wizard's Wells, yet he had none.

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BlackMagik
BlackMagik


Adventuring Hero
posted March 12, 2016 03:47 PM
Edited by BlackMagik at 16:07, 12 Mar 2016.

Quote:
Well, fire up the editor and place a Witch Hut. Check the properties to see which skills are included in the pool to randomly draw from. Leadership and Necromancy are flagged off, the rest is on


It is just as you say...Leadership & Necromancy flagged off, so something else must be going on

Is there a way to generate a random map, and check what skills are placed into a hut? (map editor nOOb here, so please bear with)

OK...I loaded some random maps from recent games and...there are a bunch of skills not available. Including the four previously mentioned, there are eight others not available. Leadership is, Necromancy is not.

How can I change this? (not meaning to derail the topic here)

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 13, 2016 01:38 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 13:29, 14 Mar 2016.

That's okay BlackMagik.
Go to Tools and then Map Specifications and then the tab called Secondary Skills, there you can select which skills are enabled and which are not.
I guess the skills you miss are for some reason disabled. (As default normally all skills are enabled, except maybe Diplomacy and Navigation in some HotA maps)

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MeCho
MeCho

Tavern Dweller
posted March 22, 2016 11:21 AM

my list.... from the best at 5 to the worst at 1

5.Scholar
4.Eagle Eye
3.First Aid
2.Scouting
1.Learning
____________

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted March 27, 2016 05:26 AM

MeCho said:
5.Scholar

I guess you never found View Air in a shirine three days of travel from where you were planning to go...

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted March 28, 2016 01:13 PM

One thing I've been noticing in my map (where they are sure they will find the lost heroes in tavern sonner or latter) is that when they are allyed they try to lose the remainning heroes to neutral or time expire, to avoid losing the artifacts.
This happened many times and in different ways so I admit it can be just confirmation bias but if it's true is a great point to developers.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted August 25, 2018 08:03 PM

as soon as I saw scholar in that list I went "ewww"

Although, eagle eye and mysticism are as crappy, but I remember having picked mysticism in some of the games. As for eagle eye... well, eagle eye is as crappy as scholar but I had to vote for one skill, only... sadly

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