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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] VCMI Mod Design Team
Thread: [Official Thread] VCMI Mod Design Team This thread is 17 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 · «PREV / NEXT»
Nephretes
Nephretes


Promising
Known Hero
posted May 23, 2016 11:24 AM

Creature was already presented earlier. It is hut for troll witch. For now it is shooter with regeneration suitable for troll kin. If it will prove not to be strong enough to be alternative we will think about something new.



Anyway I remind you guys that attempt with alternative units is not too change balance too much, rather ensure you have situational pick.

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pekute99
pekute99


Adventuring Hero
posted May 23, 2016 12:21 PM

Nephretes said:
Creature was already presented earlier. It is hut for troll witch. For now it is shooter with regeneration suitable for troll kin. If it will prove not to be strong enough to be alternative we will think about something new.



Anyway I remind you guys that attempt with alternative units is not too change balance too much, rather ensure you have situational pick.

Troll in Fortress ? Shouldn't this unit be a alternative in Stronghold ? But it's still good anyway and when will you release the first version ? I'm so excited I can't wait !

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Hero_Of_Light
Hero_Of_Light


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 23, 2016 01:33 PM

I agree trolls are Stronghold creatures. They were such in H2.

As you might know I've been working with alternative creature mods for several years now.

In earliest mods, when I made the alternatives to be upgraded back and forth, only a few players got the concept. I've been hearing comments all the time like "Faerie Dragons upgrade to Azure? That's stupid!" and so forth. Every time I had to explain to them that they are not actually upgraded but they are alternatives. Let me tell you the message didn't come through. Even to this day people post things like that in my youtube videos.

In my latest mod, weary of this, I made the alternatives to work as additional creatures rather than alternatives. I think it is a more elegant solution and practical too, since you get more options for creatures, without losing anything on the side.

My advise to you is this. Do not make the same mistake as original H4 did, with alternative buildings that cannot be changed at will. Because say you capture an enemy town and it has all the alternative creatures rather than the ones you like/have built in your towns. This will be really frustrating.

Having both options all the time is the way to go in my opinion. Just thought I shared it out
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Not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall.

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Dj
Dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted May 23, 2016 01:44 PM

Trolls can be found in Tatalia (Fortress) too. We find out about this in Heroes Chronicles (but i dont remember which one).

And hopefully, VCMI will provide a solution to the alternative creatures problem. Like switching back and forth between alternatives with a resource price.

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Nephretes
Nephretes


Promising
Known Hero
posted May 23, 2016 02:17 PM
Edited by Nephretes at 14:17, 23 May 2016.

It is true, original NWC troll is neutral creature for Stronghold, but our witch fits swamps more, besides it is true that:

Quote:
Trolls can be found in Tatalia (Fortress) too.


@ Hero of Light
Well, this is also one of the reason we decided to focus on higher levels for now (4-7). Many starting towns have low level creatures dwelling already built, so it will be pointless  to introduce unit you often won't be able to recruit. For now it is possible to introduce new slot in town hall , but there is no mechanism for switching as far as I know. It is just my personal opinion, but I think that possibility to change your creature back and forth into another anytime is not a good idea, I would rather see players think first about what alternative creature is suitable for the map than randomly switch back and forth. After all alternatives are all about situational choice to enrich possible strategies, not make game easier

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 23, 2016 02:48 PM

Quote:


Can't wait to play with that beauty.
____________

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Adilmaru
Adilmaru


Adventuring Hero
posted May 24, 2016 12:19 AM
Edited by Adilmaru at 00:39, 24 May 2016.

Damnnn, this is what I call an awesome mod. I am just mindblown how cool this is. I think troll fits perfectly with Fortress. But I have to ask, so your idea is to make alternative units from 4th-7th tier? I am especially interested in that lion. I hope he is in Castle as alternative!

Off topic, but I see you know more than the others. So Cathedral and Kronverk are canceled? We are never going to see them? What happened with Alex?

EDIT: Forgot to ask, is Conflux replaced with Oasis or Oasis is 10/11th town?

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Nephretes
Nephretes


Promising
Known Hero
posted May 24, 2016 01:09 AM
Edited by Nephretes at 01:11, 24 May 2016.

Original idea was to make three alternative units per town, but it proved to be too much work for us. First version will include one alternative unit per town for a few of them for now. The rest will be updated gradually. I doubt that we will ever make three alternative creatures per town, and since I am one of a main 3D artists in a group and I don't think this is good idea, I won't expect as many as three. However there is a chance that rest of a team will do it in a distant future.

Sorry to disappoint you, but Paladin is going to be an alternative for castle. Currently I don't have plans to finish lion.

===
Cathedral and Kronverk are old HotA towns, so you should ask them. I am not authorized to give information on behalf of them, and besides I have worked with them too short to posses any information on that matter. However it is known fact that new towns for HotA are very low priority, and without Alex I won't expect them to happen soon or ever.
=====
Oasis is a town for VCMI, which due to its stupid AI is rather test engine than playable game for now. Let's hope that it will change in a future. If anyone will be interested maybe ERA port will happen eventually, but it will be always in a form of replacement. Our team have good 3D artists, but we are lacking programmer, that's why we are working with VCMI. Currently only HotA have succeed in adding new town to game.

For now you can try MDT Forge for VCMI
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2t5uwozzazqzp5r/The%20Forge.rar?dl=0


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pekute99
pekute99


Adventuring Hero
posted May 24, 2016 08:53 AM

Nephretes said:

Oasis is a town for VCMI, which due to its stupid AI is rather test engine than playable game for now. Let's hope that it will change in a future. If anyone will be interested maybe ERA port will happen eventually, but it will be always in a form of replacement. Our team have good 3D artists, but we are lacking programmer, that's why we are working with VCMI. Currently only HotA have succeed in adding new town to game.



So this mod was going to be on the original game like HotA ? Why don't you ask the HotA team how to add new town to the game like that did ? I'm hoping to see this mod on the original game because VCMI has a lot of errors and it crashs a lot.
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Adilmaru
Adilmaru


Adventuring Hero
posted May 24, 2016 01:44 PM

Well, that is really bad news. To be honest, then there is no point of only adding 1 unit. Wasn't initial idea to make game more interesting with alternative units, so you can choose what fits you or your situation. With 1 unit, it is nothing. For me, 3 would be minimum. I would make at least 3 units per town, or completely abandon this project. Those are just my thoughts, you can do whatever you wish, it is your project after all!

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 24, 2016 01:55 PM

Adilmaru said:
To be honest, then there is no point of only adding 1 unit. Wasn't initial idea to make game more interesting with alternative units, so you can choose what fits you or your situation. With 1 unit, it is nothing.

To be honest -and no offense intended- you don't know what you're talking about.

Besides, I am not sure you realize the amount of work, you go create a single high quality fully animated unit, code it into the game so it appears as alternative and make it a viable strategical choice, then we talk and see if you still think it's "nothing".
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Nephretes
Nephretes


Promising
Known Hero
posted May 24, 2016 08:34 PM

@pekute99

No, this mod was always for VCMI, because this is the only platform within our reach. As I said we don't have good programmer, so even if HotA would share their secret we won't be able to do anything with it, because it requires a lot of reverse programming and knowledge about game code.

@Adilmaru

Galaad wrote it well, I don't think you fully realize amount of work needed, and technical difficulties connected to such mod. Not even to mention the struggle connected to maintaining existing balance with just an one alternative unit per town. If you are searching for an extreme modding you should play WOG, though graphically speaking it is an ancient era.

Now, I got carried away a bit from the main topic. Next time I am here I will post another teaser.

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avatar
avatar


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 24, 2016 09:01 PM

Nephretes said:

No, this mod was always for VCMI, because this is the only platform within our reach. As I said we don't have good programmer, so even if HotA would share their secret we won't be able to do anything with it, because it requires a lot of reverse programming and knowledge about game code.


I hope when Alternative units mod or Oasis Town will come out, HotA Team helps ERA Team to convert this vcmi mod on other H3 platforms!
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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted May 25, 2016 12:13 AM
Edited by Lord_Immortal at 09:44, 25 May 2016.

You guys are making an awesome job here! Good Luck!

As for the unit guess game, my take is...
-The Dryad(Rampart), Mindflayer(Dungeon) and Troll(Fortress) are already announced. You also stated that the Rakshasa is being considered as alternative for the Oasis.

-The Paladin is for Castle. (Suggestion - You can make its non-upgrade more similiar to the M&M Dragon Hunters)

-Werewolf for Necropolis (needed actually)

-[Nemean] Lion for Stronghold

-Triton for Cove.

-The Frogs? Conflux I'd guess.

-Forge alternative - Naga Tank

Somewhere you posted a Succubus for Inferno and the Tower is an interesting one to see.

EDIT: [Removed the "two questions". Searched around the thread and got answer. Sorry for asking questions you already answered]

Regarding your problem with the alternative buildings... well, it could be resolved through building demolishment. In WoG you could demolish ANY building of a town. It's a pity that many WoG features are ignored by both players & modders. Re-designed and re-made they could be transformed into very interesting features.

Another issue I want to address is the Title of the Mod. If I may, I would like to propose "Twilight of the Gods" (since WoG is Wake of the Gods) as a more appropriate title. This mod has no title but it definetly deserves to be remembered as something more than "the VCMI mod".

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Midas
Midas


Hired Hero
Touching things...
posted June 13, 2016 02:31 PM
Edited by Midas at 14:32, 13 Jun 2016.

I'm wondering about the Succubus. Since the Demon is an almost-universally crappy level 4, I don't think it would take much to make a better level-4 creature than that.

Therefore, it would mean that if you made the Succubus a bit strong (and therefore viable), then you would then have to buff the Demon too to compensate, no? Or would you sacrifice that and make the Succubus just as, ehem, bad as the demon, utility-wise?

Because if you were to buff the demon, then that would be like messing a tiny little bit with the preexisting balance scale in the game, wouldn't it?

I'm curious on how this team is going to sort this out.
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revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted July 06, 2016 07:26 PM
Edited by revolut1oN at 19:27, 06 Jul 2016.

Midas said:
I'm wondering about the Succubus. Since the Demon is an almost-universally crappy level 4, I don't think it would take much to make a better level-4 creature than that.



Sorry, but are you aware that demon is top2 level 4 unit? Under proper circumstances i guess it can even outshine VL.

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pekute99
pekute99


Adventuring Hero
posted July 07, 2016 09:04 AM

Any news ?

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Nephretes
Nephretes


Promising
Known Hero
posted July 12, 2016 03:29 PM
Edited by Nephretes at 15:53, 12 Jul 2016.

@Lord_Immortal

Well, you got almost all of them right. We will  tell the rest when the time comes

I don't know what the rest of the team thinks about it, but I am quite new in modding community. I become interested in H3 modding scene after seeing HoTa, because WoG didn't do it for me. Therefore I am not very fond of WoG features, and would rather not see them in our mod.

As for the title. It is not very important for now, as we get closer to the relase state of the project, we will think about it.

@Midas
We are not going to interfere with preexisting game balance. We are going to make it happen otherwise.

@pekute99
Lately not that much. There was student session and now we have holiday finally. I have been messing around a little, and fred79 is being a great help for us with sounds and map dwellings.

I think I can share new dryad project. The thing is that as I get better in 3D, I tend to become extremely unsatisfied with the older models. It is not making my life easier. Here you have small project, it will be further improved, therefore it is not ready yet, but since you have not heard from us for a while enjoy little sneak peak



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Hero_Of_Light
Hero_Of_Light


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted July 12, 2016 06:11 PM

Don't get me wrong but I think I like the old one better. It fits better with the original H3 animations.

I've been watching closely your progress with the Oasis project as well and (If I may) I would like to advise you on something.

I couldn't help but notice that you keep posting updates where you change design/plans for your mods, rather than focusing on making a final releasable material. You keep posting new models for creatures, which show great creativity and talent, but don't seem to get any closer to a working one.

I would advise you, on both your projects, to focus on a releasable material, release it, get feedback and (why not) praise from this community and then keep adding/fixing your mod by releasing further material. I deem it easier to start small and built up, rather than go big and let the project collapse (due to its own weight).

Please do not take these comments as hostile or even judgemental. It is obviously not my place to judge your work, since you can do whatever you want with it. I just thought I'd share my thoughts and suggestions on your projects.
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Not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall.

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted July 12, 2016 06:37 PM
Edited by Warmonger at 19:07, 12 Jul 2016.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong but I think I like the old one better. It fits better with the original H3 animations.

Absolutely. New one might be sharper, but it's strange alien with odd face and lack of detail. Meh.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!

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