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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Ubisoft and Might and Magic franchise
Thread: Ubisoft and Might and Magic franchise This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted October 09, 2015 11:44 AM

Ubisoft and Might and Magic franchise

Seeing what happened to H6 and H7, I have little faith in Ubisoft making something better. The trend they are following makes H5 just a lucky shot, considering the changes in developer teams. Many have been displeased with the game, some have even left. If this keeps up, those that did not play previous Might and Magic games will think of it as "something that needs to be buried".

Most have accused Erwan as the sole factor where the franchise goes. Whether true or not, it does not change the fact in which Heroes VII in state is now. Most believe he should just quit and go away.

But recently I found out this. A game developed by Ubisoft in original universe. So far it went up to MM Mobile II, again in Antagarich. Considering they also made Clash of Heroes and Dark Messiah, I think a logical conclusion is that only small, short games can receive praise. As if they want to make something big (like H6 and H7), but fail (due to many reasons) and receive negative feedback.

Why is it like that, I do not know. But the fact remains they can generate only small-time success. Although, surprisingly enough, 3DO and NWC made Heroes and Might & Magic games with large success (well, except the last ones, H4 and MM9), yet their spin-offs were bad, in eyes of the majority.

Do you believe they should just quit bigger projects and focus on smaller games?
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted October 09, 2015 12:32 PM

Quote:
The hero, Ewan, is sent to rescue the king by a mysterious nobleman.


lol A premonition perhaps?

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Simpelicity
Simpelicity


Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
posted October 09, 2015 12:40 PM

No, I believe they should find a way to get the big games right too.

There's nothing wrong with the direction they're taking, what keeps killing their buzz is game state at release. That is due to either insufficient investment from Ubi (money/time, though time is money), either to the dev not being good enough to work with the time/ressources it has. You can look at it either way, but without inside knowledge it's hard to know exactly where the blame should fall.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted October 09, 2015 12:54 PM

Simpelicity said:
There's nothing wrong with the direction they're taking, what keeps killing their buzz is game state at release. That is due to either insufficient investment from Ubi (money/time, though time is money), either to the dev not being good enough to work with the time/ressources it has. You can look at it either way, but without inside knowledge it's hard to know exactly where the blame should fall.


well I personally dispute that there's nothing wrong with their direction, I think there are countless things wrong with it, big and small, which are probably best summed up in a nutshell by their own words, they "don't have a vision for how Heroes should be" lol

it's speculation, but I suggest the insufficient investment has less to do with the death of the TBS and much more to do with Team Erwin's failures and incompetence in the Heroes 6 fiasco, leading to an internal lack of confidence that they will make the most out of a good budget lol

for who to blame, judging from all the public evidence we have, I think it is fairly clear Erwin is one of the worst culprits of this situation lol
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted October 09, 2015 02:11 PM

I skipped the development almost completely but after the trailer with some recently discharged junkie in Gucci "armour" with overcompensating sword standing in front of a table surrounded by some apparently important wannabes, followed by presentation of creatures' movement animations, the deja vu overwhelmed me and I decided to return back to the world where Heroes VII exists only on the far background. Judging from the comments here and there, I'm not missing anything.

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Pim18
Pim18


Known Hero
posted October 09, 2015 02:49 PM

verriker said:


well I personally dispute that there's nothing wrong with their direction, I think there are countless things wrong with it, big and small, which are probably best summed up in a nutshell by their own words, they "don't have a vision for how Heroes should be" lol

it's speculation, but I suggest the insufficient investment has less to do with the death of the TBS and much more to do with Team Erwin's failures and incompetence in the Heroes 6 fiasco, leading to an internal lack of confidence that they will make the most out of a good budget lol

for who to blame, judging from all the public evidence we have, I think it is fairly clear Erwin is one of the worst culprits of this situation lol


I agree with this. Combine this with the fact that Ubisoft cares more about making money then actually publishing a good product and you have a bunch of lackluster sequels and a lot of pissed off fans. Honestly though I think that in the long run this will come back to bite them. You cannot keep on producing products like this without losing a lot of money. Hopefully then will Ubisoft sell the franchise to someone who cares more about the series.

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted October 09, 2015 08:33 PM
Edited by Gryphs at 20:34, 09 Oct 2015.

EnergyZ said:
I think a logical conclusion is that only small, short games can receive praise. As if they want to make something big (like H6 and H7), but fail (due to many reasons) and receive negative feedback.

Why is it like that, I do not know. But the fact remains they can generate only small-time success. Although, surprisingly enough, 3DO and NWC made Heroes and Might & Magic games with large success (well, except the last ones, H4 and MM9), yet their spin-offs were bad, in eyes of the majority.

Do you believe they should just quit bigger projects and focus on smaller games?
It is not just Might and Magic Ubisoft as a company has not been doing well with large releases lately from what I have seen. Releasing smaller titles until they are actually capable of making a proper sequel could work at keeping the franchise alive in the interim, but only if they are good who knows if the ones we have were not flukes after all.
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Akul
Akul


Hired Hero
posted October 10, 2015 02:41 AM

Gryphs said:
EnergyZ said:
I think a logical conclusion is that only small, short games can receive praise. As if they want to make something big (like H6 and H7), but fail (due to many reasons) and receive negative feedback.

Why is it like that, I do not know. But the fact remains they can generate only small-time success. Although, surprisingly enough, 3DO and NWC made Heroes and Might & Magic games with large success (well, except the last ones, H4 and MM9), yet their spin-offs were bad, in eyes of the majority.

Do you believe they should just quit bigger projects and focus on smaller games?
It is not just Might and Magic Ubisoft as a company has not been doing well with large releases lately from what I have seen. Releasing smaller titles until they are actually capable of making a proper sequel could work at keeping the franchise alive in the interim, but only if they are good who knows if the ones we have were not flukes after all.


Smaller titles will not help here at all. Heck, smaller games make less profit so it would just weaken them.
The problem with Ubi right now is that they rush their developers, sometimes for stupid reasons (H7 seems to have been rushed so it would be released around 20th anniversary). They believe that an unfinished game is fine if marketing is good enough (look at AC: Unity), but they fail to understand that, for most publishers, this trick stopped working in last 2/3 years.

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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted October 10, 2015 03:43 AM

The thing you have to consider about DM and CoH is that as new spinoffs, they didnt have to deal with any prejudgement (other than the one caused by their own publicity campaigns ofc) and that they dont have 20 of luggage.

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted October 10, 2015 04:02 AM

Wasting someone's time is a form of harassment and posting any theory about why Heroes sucks should be considered trolling at this point.

Let's just close this forum and replace it with a simple one page webpage that says "Ubisoft makes cheap games"

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted October 10, 2015 09:54 AM

GenyaArikado said:
The thing you have to consider about DM and CoH is that as new spinoffs, they didnt have to deal with any prejudgement (other than the one caused by their own publicity campaigns ofc) and that they dont have 20 of luggage.


I agree. But this is why I did bring up those NWC spin-offs, which were mostly criticized. Just saying people have some taste in judging spin-offs, so even as small games they can also be dismissed.

Akul said:
Gryphs said:
It is not just Might and Magic Ubisoft as a company has not been doing well with large releases lately from what I have seen. Releasing smaller titles until they are actually capable of making a proper sequel could work at keeping the franchise alive in the interim, but only if they are good who knows if the ones we have were not flukes after all.


Smaller titles will not help here at all. Heck, smaller games make less profit so it would just weaken them.
The problem with Ubi right now is that they rush their developers, sometimes for stupid reasons (H7 seems to have been rushed so it would be released around 20th anniversary). They believe that an unfinished game is fine if marketing is good enough (look at AC: Unity), but they fail to understand that, for most publishers, this trick stopped working in last 2/3 years.


Well, I still remember someone saying that the best approach for Ubi is to make some small profits and successes. As you can see, launching any larger title poses a big threat to them, namely negative criticism, which has been going on for years. That being said, to create a game better than H7, they have to change their tactics first (like which experienced dev studio will they employ, how much money and time will it be given out, as well as some other questions concerning the Erwan's MM team) then make decisions. Because really, to love it, the game has to radiate respect, quality, originality, yet keeping some essence if it is a sequel. And for 20 years of Heroes franchise, one would expect tons of things.

As you said, Ubi tends to rush devs. But do you agree they should just quit making such big games, else they will get the situation over and over again - customers being very unhappy with the product. As I did mention, the spin-offs are met with positive acclaim. Just advising should they want some cash out of it to go on that path. For the path they are on does not bode well for them.

Kayna said:
Wasting someone's time is a form of harassment and posting any theory about why Heroes sucks should be considered trolling at this point.

Let's just close this forum and replace it with a simple one page webpage that says "Ubisoft makes cheap games"


You are overdramatizing stuff. If you actually bothered to read the comments, you wouldn't write this comment in the first place.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted October 10, 2015 12:16 PM

verriker said:
Simpelicity said:
There's nothing wrong with the direction they're taking


well I personally dispute that there's nothing wrong with their direction, I think there are countless things wrong with it, big and small, which are probably best summed up in a nutshell by their own words, they "don't have a vision for how Heroes should be" lol

it's speculation, but I suggest the insufficient investment has less to do with the death of the TBS and much more to do with Team Erwin's failures and incompetence in the Heroes 6 fiasco, leading to an internal lack of confidence that they will make the most out of a good budget lol

+1

After H6 I would be hesitant to fund a new game too. Only too many whings wrong with the direction.
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A sea without waves is no longer a sea. It's a pond.

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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted October 10, 2015 01:15 PM

Elvin said:
After H6 I would be hesitant to fund a new game too. Only too many whings wrong with the direction.

Is that an intentional "Looney Tunes" reference? Of couwse it is.

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AgnesLynd
AgnesLynd


Hired Hero
posted October 10, 2015 02:43 PM
Edited by AgnesLynd at 14:43, 10 Oct 2015.

Should've kept improving VI instead. That game stood by its ideas however divisive they might've been. It's actually a pretty good game in its current state and now you have to wait until (or if) VII goes down that road from the messed up release to the fixed-with-patches state. For some reason this pattern has been haunting the franchise since IV (since III really, but Restoration of Erathia 1.0 wasn't downright broken on release).
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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted October 10, 2015 05:15 PM

verriker said:

it's speculation, but I suggest the insufficient investment has less to do with the death of the TBS and much more to do with Team Erwin's failures and incompetence in the Heroes 6 fiasco, leading to an internal lack of confidence that they will make the most out of a good budget lol



But do you think that such people give turn-based strategy a bad name?

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Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted October 10, 2015 11:19 PM

The simple fact is that both H6 and H7 would be better games had they not been Heroes games. The Heroes legacy is like a big weight holding Ubisoft back from making the games they actually want to make. Erwan has been very clear that he knew nothing about heroes. I don't think he's even played the previous games. He would like to make a turn based RPG-RTS type of game, because those are the games that he personally likes and plays. And I genuinely believe that H6 and H7 would have been better games if Team Erwan didn't have to make them fit into the "Heroes box".

This is something that hurts both the company and the fans of the series. Frankly, the only reason they are making sequels to this franchise is due to the large following it has.

Based on the reviews, H7 is currently a bigger failure than H6 was. I wonder what the highers-ups in Ubisoft make of that. Do they allow Erwan to stay in his position? I hope for one of two things, in descending likelihood:
1) Erwan is removed from his current position. Ubisoft keeps the rights to the M&M universe, but is no longer bound to Ashan (since it's father is gone). They hire in a new developer that knows the games and has a very large degree of freedom.
2) Ubisoft sells the rights to the M&M brand. It's picked up by former emplyees of New World Computing and Nival

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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted October 10, 2015 11:55 PM
Edited by Pawek_13 at 23:55, 10 Oct 2015.

Brukernavn said:
1) Erwan is removed from his current position. Ubisoft keeps the rights to the M&M universe, but is no longer bound to Ashan (since it's father is gone). They hire in a new developer that knows the games and has a very large degree of freedom.

I have even better idea - we finally move forward with the timeline! For nearly 10 years we know the Ashan story up to nearly year 1000 YSD, yet nobody has decided to explore the post-Messiah era. This would bring so many new possibilities without a need to create a new universe. Other possibility is to simply move to other continent. There are so many possibilities in Ashan, yet no-one decided to explore them.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted October 11, 2015 07:06 AM

Ashan is already tainted by its own mediocrity, blandness and unoriginality, steadily built for 3 games, it will be a huge task to turn the pile of **** into something worth exploring. This will require disbanding the current "visionaries" anyway. Burn it and forget about it, that's the only feasible option.

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Pavijan
Pavijan


Adventuring Hero
posted October 11, 2015 09:41 AM

Elvin said:
verriker said:
Simpelicity said:
There's nothing wrong with the direction they're taking


well I personally dispute that there's nothing wrong with their direction, I think there are countless things wrong with it, big and small, which are probably best summed up in a nutshell by their own words, they "don't have a vision for how Heroes should be" lol

it's speculation, but I suggest the insufficient investment has less to do with the death of the TBS and much more to do with Team Erwin's failures and incompetence in the Heroes 6 fiasco, leading to an internal lack of confidence that they will make the most out of a good budget lol

+1

After H6 I would be hesitant to fund a new game too. Only too many whings wrong with the direction.


"So, after an game that suffered form the lack of funding, developing time and bad designer choices that fans hated, what should we do to make the next profitable?"

"I know! Let cut the funding and development time EVEN MORE, and keep those people from the last game in charge, because it's obvious that nobody likes those games anyway, and we made such a good job last time..."

I just can't believe that someone with an ounce of business sense can be able to think in this way...

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 11, 2015 10:05 AM

HoMM 6 did everything except suffer from a lack of funding.

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