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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Limbic read this balance thread to be updated
Thread: Limbic read this balance thread to be updated This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
The_green_drag
The_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted October 15, 2015 09:18 PM
Edited by The_green_drag at 21:20, 15 Oct 2015.

I think the gnolls opportunity shot is rather OP. I remember way back when I played the stronghold campaign during the event, their ability only triggered when the target was in half its range.

The way it is now gives gnolls too much damage output for a core. I don't think anybody chooses extra harpies over gnolls, I usually end up not getting any harpies at all.

Opportunity shot could get nerfed and wyverns could use a little stat buff. 4-3 attack/defense and only 4-4 with upgrade? cores have better stats.


Another thing is the top elite creatures. I rarely find much use for these besides sylvans deer just cause of their aura. But the rest don't dish out enough damage, are not tanky enough, and just die off too quickly before they become useful. I'd usually always ignore them now and go straight for the champion. Maybe they need to be stronger or have more production or be cheaper. Couldn't hurt to have earlier access to some rather than waiting for town level 12. Cavaliers and basilisk riders are the worst for me, followed by Minotaur and rakasha.

Any thoughts?

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted October 15, 2015 09:25 PM

Minotaurs are super pimp. They counter attack before being attacked and are not retaliated.

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PROJ
PROJ


Known Hero
posted October 15, 2015 09:40 PM
Edited by PROJ at 21:53, 15 Oct 2015.

The_green_drag said:
I think the gnolls opportunity shot is rather OP. I remember way back when I played the stronghold campaign during the event, their ability only triggered when the target was in half its range.

The way it is now gives gnolls too much damage output for a core. I don't think anybody chooses extra harpies over gnolls, I usually end up not getting any harpies at all.

Opportunity shot could get nerfed and wyverns could use a little stat buff. 4-3 attack/defense and only 4-4 with upgrade? cores have better stats.


Another thing is the top elite creatures. I rarely find much use for these besides sylvans deer just cause of their aura. But the rest don't dish out enough damage, are not tanky enough, and just die off too quickly before they become useful. I'd usually always ignore them now and go straight for the champion. Maybe they need to be stronger or have more production or be cheaper. Couldn't hurt to have earlier access to some rather than waiting for town level 12. Cavaliers and basilisk riders are the worst for me, followed by Minotaur and rakasha.

Any thoughts?


I think you need to look at the stats more closely.  In many (or all?) circumstances, the elites are superior to cores in terms of weekly growth, although less cost-efficient.  Not to mention the various abilities that give them an edge over their core counterparts.  Having more parity between the tiers is generally a better thing anyways, as it improves the balance and depth of the game.  

Regardless, you'll want to have them in your army because of the hard-cap limit on how many creatures you can recruit per week.  It's not like you can spend the money you would have spent on djinns on cabirs instead.

As for the gnolls, without their ability they are extremely weak, being outperformed by many of the other core shooters in many situations (controlling for weekly growth, of course).  It's hard to say whether or not they are overpowered without specific map discussion.  Many things break down when the army sizes get too large and it's not really useful to discuss unit balance in these kinds of circumstances.

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The_green_drag
The_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted October 16, 2015 02:35 PM

The top elites are just not worth it, even with their abilities. Only the sun deer are. For how much the dwelling costs and the low production rate of only two, there are simply better options. The capital and the champion dwelling are only a little more expensive but more cost efficient. You even have to invest more just get any worth out of them. I didn't even get basilisk riders at all last time I played stronghold and it was the easiest win yet. The "on lucky strike" abilities are not enough to make up for the high costs. They should have hp raised to the 200s so they can at least last longer.

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PROJ
PROJ


Known Hero
posted October 16, 2015 02:46 PM
Edited by PROJ at 14:47, 16 Oct 2015.

The_green_drag said:
The top elites are just not worth it, even with their abilities. Only the sun deer are. For how much the dwelling costs and the low production rate of only two, there are simply better options. The capital and the champion dwelling are only a little more expensive but more cost efficient. You even have to invest more just get any worth out of them. I didn't even get basilisk riders at all last time I played stronghold and it was the easiest win yet. The "on lucky strike" abilities are not enough to make up for the high costs. They should have hp raised to the 200s so they can at least last longer.

Are you playing against humans?  Playing against AI is always kind of a joke.  What maps are you playing?  Like I said, they are less cost-efficient but more weekly growth-efficient.  For example, the Rakshasa Rajas' weekly growth has 300 hp, 52 damage avg, 14 attack, which is only comparable to disciples (oddly enough) in terms of offense , and better than all except gargoyles in terms of health, champions excluded.  On top of that, they have no retaliation and sweep, two very powerful abilities.  If cost is the issue, then that's more a matter of map design.  On a poor map you probably will run into trouble producing them.  On a map where you can earn enough income, they are clearly superior, although they don't completely outclass everything by leaps and bounds.

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The_green_drag
The_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted October 16, 2015 03:35 PM

Haven't played anybody yet, just AI. I've been playing the large maps on heroic. Usually when i buy their dwelling I'm left with two options. Either to add them to my army right away or let them grow and get more use out them later. problem I'm having is if I let them join my army they'll die in the next battle or two unless I protect them the whole time. And when I let them grow in numbers, they still don't do enough damage or absorb enough unless I invest more money in their extra production and upgrade them. In the middle of all this I just end up picking up the champion.

So it's no problem with the sun deer cause you only need one to make use of their aura. Rakasha are my 2nd favorite cause they're pretty strong and have sweep. I really like the cavaliers and basilisk riders but they just fall behind in numbers and can't catch up. Vamps still are not life draining properly but they should be useful after that's fixed, wish they had more movement though.

I'm trying to find better use of them cause the basilisk riders look so cool

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Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted October 16, 2015 03:52 PM

The_green_drag said:
I think the gnolls opportunity shot is rather OP. I remember way back when I played the stronghold campaign during the event, their ability only triggered when the target was in half its range.

The way it is now gives gnolls too much damage output for a core. I don't think anybody chooses extra harpies over gnolls, I usually end up not getting any harpies at all.



It is a shame you don't get the harpies. They (or at least the furies) are deadly combined with the gnolls. Just fill all your empty army spots with one-stacks of furies and watch the gnolls slaughter the enemies army with their opportunity shot.


The wyverns are indeed much too squishy. I actually would've preferred them as the strongest elite, but the way they are now they are a complete joke.


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The_green_drag
The_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted October 16, 2015 04:14 PM
Edited by The_green_drag at 16:25, 16 Oct 2015.

^^

That's a good strategy but that's also a good example of how they can be OP lol

100% agree wyverns could have and should have been their strongest elite. Would also add some variety as vampires are the only flying too elite. A ranged one would be nice too. Wyverns work like slightly stronger dragon flys from h3 atm. Or slightly weaker wyverns I guess

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sirloccothan
sirloccothan


Hired Hero
ProGamer
posted October 19, 2015 04:13 AM
Edited by sirloccothan at 04:14, 19 Oct 2015.

Yeah and what about AI see through the Fog of War?
Never leave your Castle Empty cuz the AI is heading that way already (Castle threat is hudge for AI )
Only one Heroes have this fixed (with MOD) the H5 ToTE with AI mod
Ethernal Essence
-> http://www.bonddisc.com/ref/h5/
____________
*********************
Ne01_LoccOtHaN

http://loccothan.blogspot.com/

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gomaki
gomaki

Shaper of Lore
Community Manager, Limbic Ent.
posted October 20, 2015 10:12 AM

Morning all I've gathered a first round of feedback and will provide it to the correct people and bring it up in the balancing meetings. Thanks a lot. Keep it coming.

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted October 20, 2015 11:56 AM
Edited by natalka at 12:00, 20 Oct 2015.

gomaki there is thread on offical forums where I and others contributed. You should definitely check it out.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1288707-For-Future-Patches

27-30 are mine doing. Battle sites are very important also.

Remove mentor please! Now with governor abilities it is way too OP.

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malax83
malax83


Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
posted October 20, 2015 12:46 PM
Edited by malax83 at 12:47, 20 Oct 2015.

gomaki said:
Morning all I've gathered a first round of feedback and will provide it to the correct people and bring it up in the balancing meetings. Thanks a lot. Keep it coming.


Since UbiSoft get this licence, the whole question of balance should have been thougth before release the game - and well, even before.

You have no chance to balance all this racial perks, abilities and tiers creatures.

End of story.

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The_Green_drag
The_Green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted October 22, 2015 05:45 AM
Edited by The_Green_drag at 15:11, 22 Oct 2015.

The hydra should have a wider attack angle. It went from attacking evey unit around it to like only the front half. It's like a slightly more powerful sweep right now.

I had it in a spot like this and it could only attack (X for main target,) here...
  x x X
  HH x
  HH x

it can't even attack it's other corners. Defeating the purpose of a hydra....

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