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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Who's REALLY to blame for the continuous downfall of the Heroes series?
Thread: Who's REALLY to blame for the continuous downfall of the Heroes series? This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · NEXT»
fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Scourge of the H-Seas
posted October 11, 2015 01:41 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 09:44, 22 Oct 2015.

Poll Question:
Who's REALLY to blame for the continuous downfall of the Heroes series?

i would put this in the library, but since homm7 is such a HOT subforum and all, and because EVERYBODY KEEPS CREATING GREAT THREADS ABOUT IT, and POSTS ENDLESSLY about what a GREAT JOB ubi is doing...


so, who's REALLY to blame for the continual downfall of the series?

Responses:
Ubisoft devs
Ubisoft execs
People paid to promote Ubisoft games
Erwan Le Breton, who is currently in charge of HoMM series at Ubi
Fabrice Cambounet, who was the first to be in charge of HoMM series at Ubi
NWC, with their release of HoMM4
Trip Hawkins, who supposedly ruined NWC by mismanaging funds
Fans of the HoMM series who buy any of Ubi's continual HoMM failures
Ubi's customers, who keep Ubi from thinking THEY'RE THE PROBLEM
ALL OF THE ABOVE
View Results!

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SkySlam
SkySlam


Adventuring Hero
posted October 11, 2015 02:12 AM

I don't feel like putting the blame on a single person and/or Ubisoft as a whole, because while Heroes II is unforgettable in my heart, Heroes V is still one of my favorite games.

I was able to bring many friends to play Tribes of the East with me, and that confirmed my impression that Heroes V is an outstanding game even for the non-fans of the series.

Whatever happened after TotE is a complete disaster, the guilty should not be allowed to touch a title of this once magnificent series ever again in his/her cursed life! </nerdrage>

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted October 11, 2015 07:23 AM

"Fans of the HoMM series who buy any of Ubi's continual HoMM failures"

This one. Although I'd edit it a bit to "Fans of HoMM series who keep buying Ubi's new HoMM failures despite the clear signs that they will be no different from the previous ones". As long as the spice... cash keeps flowing, the Ubisoft high management will keep treating the franchise as "moderate success" and such, they don't care about the general atmosphere of dissatisfaction among the buyers' ranks. And why should they, when the same disgruntled whiners keep filling their pockets no matter what, just because of a name made famous before they took the rights for it. Minimal investments, decent profit - why not?

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted October 11, 2015 07:29 AM

Blaming the fans is like blaming the victims, and I'm not a fan of that. lul.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted October 11, 2015 07:41 AM

Falling victim to the the same bull**** over and over again is called stupidity. I'm not a fan of that, lul.

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted October 11, 2015 08:51 AM

I agree with Zeno and voted about the fans,who give money to Ubi.
I would choose the "all above" button,but I like H4,so I don't blame anybody for creating it.
____________
"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre

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Pavijan
Pavijan


Adventuring Hero
posted October 11, 2015 09:17 AM

master_learn said:

I would choose the "all above" button,but I like H4,so I don't blame anybody for creating it.


Same here.

Heroes IV was an interesting game, and while not popular Heroes II or III, it surely isn't the only reason why 3DO bancrupted. It has more with the awful MMIX, and the rest of the stupid baseball and othes crap games that 3DO produced and nobody was buying becouse the were wothless.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 11, 2015 09:38 AM

Kayna said:
Blaming the fans is like blaming the victims, and I'm not a fan of that. lul.

They're not victims if they willingly give money to Ubisoft despite of any sh*t they throw at them. As much as I'm a fan of HoMM, as much I just wish they'd let the franchise just die in a corner because Ubi won't make anything good out of it

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 11, 2015 09:50 AM

I voted ALL, but I'd like to rule out NWC and Trip. This has nothing to do with the now defunct company, or how they managed the funds. While they lasted they did a great job (speaking of H3 here, which is my favorite heroes game).

OK, maybe they are at fault to some extent because they rushed H4 without managing their funds, and stuff, but I'm not impressed by any version of the game that Ubi came up with. So, in what concerns me everything Ubi-related is at fault for ruining the game.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 11, 2015 09:52 AM

SkySlam said:
I don't feel like putting the blame on a single person and/or Ubisoft as a whole, because while Heroes II is unforgettable in my heart, Heroes V is still one of my favorite games.

I was able to bring many friends to play Tribes of the East with me, and that confirmed my impression that Heroes V is an outstanding game even for the non-fans of the series.

Whatever happened after TotE is a complete disaster, the guilty should not be allowed to touch a title of this once magnificent series ever again in his/her cursed life! </nerdrage>


No, it's not! You're just lying to yourself

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted October 11, 2015 09:54 AM

Zenofex said:
Falling victim to the the same bull**** over and over again is called stupidity. I'm not a fan of that, lul.


You are forgetting Heroes VI was not what people wanted, yet the team pushed into Heroes VII. I am fairly certain the profit for H6 was low, so they still made the sequel as if nothing much happened.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 11, 2015 09:54 AM

Blaming the fans is just polemic bullsh!t.

Ubisoft clearly had managed the swing when TotE had been out. HoMM 5, after 2 expansions can easily hold its own compared with its predessors, and HoMM 5 also sold decently which led to a comfortable budget for HoMM 6.

Which means, the stage was set for a good HoMM 6

Except that the job proved to be too big for the small studio in Budapest they hired - which is Black Holes fault only insofar that they didn't decline the offer which no one can blame them for not to have done - who would decline such a chance?

Which means, the fault is with Ubisoft for picking a developer who wasn't really up for the job, not so much with the concept, but with executing it (the gane is a mess, technically).
You can also put blame on Ubisoft and Nival, for not investing enough goodwill and trust into continuing the successful collaboration. For this, certainly both are to blame, but with Ubisoft being the guys with the money, you'd think that Nival might have put some more effort into continuing work, instead of lamenting each and everything Ubisoft insited they should do.

So - there you go: Nival, for not trying more to continue the work, and Ubisoft for making such a poor choice with Black Hole, resulting in a squandered chance and a squandered budget.

After that, budget obviously got axed - still Limbic managed to squeeze out 6 faction and not just 5 like BH.

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted October 11, 2015 10:08 AM

I think it is that 3DO, who wanted to cover its own money losses by throwing down NWC. I doubt Heroes IV is the problem, considering Heroes V was also to be planned, by NWC. It is just that 3DO was a bad publishing company, wanting two games to be released every year. Even Ubisoft isn't that mad to force the MM team to go that far.

And everything just chained in together - while Heroes V did well after the release of Hammers of Fate and Tribes of the East, my thoughts are that Erwan heard that people did not like those simple graphics. After part of that team was fired, Erwan remained and started to focus on graphical content rather than gameplay content. People thought "Heroes V was good, Heroes VI may be better" and got the cat in the bag. Well, most of them.

And now you have Heroes VII, which, by some people, is what "Heroes VI should've been". Some like the game, and I can respect that. But to those that think they will have an amazing gameplay, let me stop you right there, for that won't happen. Anyway, blaming the fans is a bad idea, for you got some people around that like those games, but they are in minority. Majority has spoken twice, hopefully they won't have to do it once more.

I mean if you want to please the minority, one could just release a smaller title, not something as giant as a Heroes game. World does not work in such ways - one cannot expect to please the minority and expect a huge profit from it, even at 60 value.
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Come and visit the Might and Magic Wikia!

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Scourge of the H-Seas
posted October 11, 2015 10:21 AM

JollyJoker said:
Blaming the fans is just polemic bullsh!t.


this statement is false, and moreover, illogical.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted October 11, 2015 10:34 AM

Quote:
Blaming the fans is just polemic bullsh!t.

Ubisoft clearly had managed the swing when TotE had been out. HoMM 5, after 2 expansions can easily hold its own compared with its predessors, and HoMM 5 also sold decently which led to a comfortable budget for HoMM 6.
Why people keep "forgetting" what was the state of HoMM V before TotE is beyond me. Happens literally all the time when someone tries to say something good about this particular part of the series. Cherry-picking of the worst kind. HoMM V set the Ubisoft-era edition of the "release a broken product, fix it later, maybe" trend which the later games follow to the letter. And it also introduced Ashan in all its dumbness - a world so flawed initially that all subsequent games had and have the task to fix, not improve (and so far can't do even that). Still, HoMM V, despite pioneering a lot of bad things, ended up relatively well, I'll give you that. Even if there was some hope after TotE, the fiasco of Heroes VI should have taught people to be VERY cautios. If there is even one more HoMM game, developed in the same manner, placed in the same universe, headed by the same producer, then the majority of the buyers are idiots, end of story.

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted October 11, 2015 10:41 AM

You also forget not everyone knows their plot. For the ones that played on Steam were more-or-less new players to the franchise.

Of course, this does not excuse why they release flawed, broken games. But you just sit here and criticise the fanbase, instead of fighting for a better game. You said it yourself - TotE was actually good and that should be the goal.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted October 11, 2015 10:47 AM

I am doing that - trying to convince you to stop funding this loop of low quality so Ubisoft can sell it to someone who cares or fires or re-assigns all Erwaners responsible for the current state of the series. What's your idea, to sing songs of friendship and hope until the positive karma infects everyone in the office in Paris?

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted October 11, 2015 11:02 AM

Like your decision is better than mine. As if Ubi will gladly give away IP to someone else.

No, the only road I see is just to leave feedback to *all* devs. Because those that are reading it are not helping one bit.
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Come and visit the Might and Magic Wikia!

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Scourge of the H-Seas
posted October 11, 2015 11:09 AM

lol.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted October 11, 2015 11:10 AM

Zenofex said:
Falling victim to the the same bull**** over and over again is called stupidity. I'm not a fan of that, lul.

But even if you act stupid, that does not put you to blame for another peoples actions, even if that action is taking advantage of your stupidity.

The blame can never be put on the fans, since they are not the once making the game (you could pin it on the fans, if fans had had decisive input on game design and had made the call in crucial features responsible for the failure of the game, but that is not the case with H7). Thus, the blame must be split between the Ubisoft executives (for underfunding the series), the Ubisoft development team and most importantly Erwan, because his foul vision for H6 still plagues the series to this day. Thus, I cast my vote with Erwan because as lead designer, he has to be the one to take the responsibility.

When that's said, I could wish more fans would stop blindly pre-ordering the game to support the series in same (imo. mistaken) hope that that will lead to a better future for the series. I did the same with H6, but after that atrocity, people should have learned the hard way by now that this does not help.

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