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| Thread: Next generation of heroes straight to kickstarter? | |
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 18, 2015 08:51 PM |
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Poll Question:
Next generation of heroes straight to kickstarter?
Hello everyone,
I was thinking what if the next released heroes-ish type of game is funded at kickstarter? I am completely aware that Ubi hold the rights for the franchise but it doesnt need to be called HoMM or Might and Magic or even be in the same universe.
After Heroes 5 games that are released are quite boring and unfinished.
Complete reboot, with no mediocre management and clean goals where all money go to the devs will be a start.
Also this will be the case where innovative ideas and art should be made as kickstarter is all about pleasing the people for their bucks.
Here are some ideas(new and old) for the next gen world.
ADVENTURE MAP:
1. CASTLES - besides dwellings there is no much improvement around them.
Garnisons seemed nice as an idea but their usefulness is under question.
What if 1/4th of the castle buildings could be build under a special rule for example
- tiers could be created up to level 6 but to build upgrade there will be a special zone you need to own. For example:
For Vampire lords you need to find a village object which will be turned into vampire habitat. This will allow the hero to upgrade Vampire dwelling. Tier 7 creatures will never be native. One must fight and join such so he can breed them in his castle (availability of tier 7 building). This will put in use some skills like diplomacy to a different use.
- a building that requires one of each mine (or certain of specific type etc) the building will serve as specific school magic amplifier/hero abilities amplifier.
Just as now players spent resources for army you can choose to be better at magic etc..
- some building require game achievements - being miner/warrior/mage/diplomat will give you access to some buildings that further recalibrate your hero powers.
- MAP OBJECTS - Mines/sites - currently those function per visit. You go there with a unit use/take them and go away. What if they could serve more ? In heroes 3 WOG there was a very nice addition named - adventure caves. When you enter you get in a fight if you win you may go down deeper and so on until you get to the treasures.
You could even choose which corridor to go on a crossroad. This makes the game feel more 3 dimensional.
Basically the current adventure map functionality require from heroes to be able to perform good on the battlefield. The better your hero is at this the more good results and expansion you can make.
If those objects can require different hardships that require different skills it may unlock the possibility for other classes.
For example: In chess there are problems which require from you to face the board at certain game development and at specific side where you are asked to checkmate the opponent in X moves. I think this variant can be refurbished for Heroes series are well where skills and perks similar to diplomacy, scouting, trickiness will allow you to solve them.
For example in this "solve problem" battle one will be required to enter with specific army which he has to prepare. Where skills such as Scouting will allow you to know what creature will move next (in case you dont already) or what move will it in the current situation. Diplomacy will allow you to force opponent PvE monster to change his move. Stalker (the perk from h5 which hides the vision of your monsters) will give you ability to take extra troops in this fight etc.
If you fail to solve the problem you lose the monsters as casualties but your hero does not dies. if you win you get some prize etc..
I assume that if any of us unlock our thoughts out of the heroes universe we can find a lot more things to fill in here!
2. HEROES - from what I see variety combined with usefulness is what people love about them. Heroes 3 had 2 classes which was nice.
Heroes of might and magic 5 had one, but this was fixed to 3 classes per faction in the 5.5 mod which was accepted great by the community.
The only problem was balance - how to make each class and specialization just as challenging as the rest of the heroes.
This was something heroes 3 failed at as mage stats were quite obsolete in numbers when compared to might stats.
Same was in Heroes 5.
(in order to fix this actually one should alter core game mechanics and change bonuses of the stats to make them equal. Props to Magnomagus for that in his mod.)
So how to further expand this idea? currently we can go as far as Might, Magic and balanced class. This can be done by adding more meaning to the architecture as currently the game has pure fight and survive, hack and slash type of development which can be reedited (considering some of the proposals in the Adventure map section).
3. BATTLE MODE:
If something is good as it is keep it. Battles are the core of heroes franchise everyone loves to do them and be innovative and finding different ways to use his army and hero abilities.
Heroes 3 is more chess like style - everyone moves ones per round.
Heroes 5 added more dynamics with the initiative system. Some people loved it some not but whatever it is our opinion the system really made some space for new ideas. Unbalanced as hell - yes! But it made me think twice about how things could develop further.
basically the faster (speed) and stronger (health) units had to be made slow-paced (initiative) to achieve better balance real world wise.
(note: which is not the case we have with dragons?).
I couldnt get why there is a trend that when the units with more speed were also more initiative. (covering more distance require more time).
Using the architecture of the system but setting units speed/init/help/size to a different pattern (as stated above) could really have a great positive impact.
Some examples:
- Unit size in current games is normal (one square) big (Thane, griffin) and lets add another one (huge).
The fact that one monster has increased size will benefit his endurance (more health) but will reduce his ability to react (less initiative).
- The smaller the creature the greater critical strike damage(or chance) it will be able to perform (bigger ones become more numb).
- battlefields can be one idea bigger and can have fog of war where you dont see the enemy. Things like walls and structures will further reduce the sight. This is where flying units will have even more impact as they will serve as a scouts into the unknown.
Also such type of setting will make place for new viable abilities.
Lets say dungeon scount can use invisibility to actualy go and grant visions on enemy positions. Academy Gremlin can launch a firework to reveal area of the battlefield. Also shooters will have less impact on the game outcome (which is something of great concern in Vanilla games).
What do you think?
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted October 18, 2015 09:29 PM |
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Funny, I suggested recently that we (the community) could create our own "Heroes" game. But I didn't thought about a kickstarter...
Anyhow, to be fairly honest some of your ideas are just terrible, namely that the gain some building you need special structures on the adventure map It really takes away the feeling that you're lord over this town and you develop it as you play by making it overcomplicated. In anycase the idea should never be used by any dvellings and major structure (fortification and town hall). Another is the fog of war on the battle field. It makes any matters of tactics nearly impossible, as you can't see your enemies.
However, I'm up for some ideas like huge creatures and so on.
An idea of my own are a third hero type: Stealth or Rogue heroes. (bear in mind we doesn't need to refer heroes as "might" or "magic", but could choose alternative names like Warrior, Mage and Rogue) For an exsample, a dungeon faction could have following hero classes: Overlord (Might) Warlock (Magic) and Assassin (Stealth).
While Might are the generals and Magic are spellcasters, Stealth are infiltrators, scouts, and spies, lacking noticeble might or magic skills, but being invisible in a certain radius of enemy heroes. Ofcourse there are skills that can counter this ability.
Also, I would gladly help with this game, if we decides to put it into reality. Personally I can help designing the world and the creatures, and is learning some pixelart and animation if that's the path to go...
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted October 18, 2015 09:45 PM |
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I don't know about kickstarter, I fear that may just extract more money from customers and still release a bad game. Even so, I doubt people would even trust Ubi, especially with H7's release.
No, Ubi has to give out more money to fund the project. The first step to make a good game is to make good core mechanics to people's liking, then upgrade them to next level.
Whether options to toggle them is acceptable, I don't know. But I do know sometimes both Ubi and fans have to be more open-minded when it comes to certain things.
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 18, 2015 10:51 PM |
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When it came to putting up ideas on the post I just wrote the first things that came up on my mind and just tried to tie them to Ashan.
For example: fog of war will be pointless with the current battlefield size, creature attack/defense gains and speed.
Actually I dont mind at all someone to make a heroes of stupid ideas xD.
This will take us from the roots and reboot the society creative thinking.
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted October 18, 2015 10:52 PM |
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Edited by monere at 22:53, 18 Oct 2015.
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I don't know what kickstarter is, and I didn't go through your entire content either.
I just voted for 2 reasons:
1) I like taking polls 
2) I wouldn't mind (wait, I'd LOVE) a new heroes to be created from scratch. But, a game that is finished, and still as good as H3 (sorry, but for me H3 is the reference). Also, I don't care who makes it, and in which universe (I never cared about campaigns anyway, so I don't care too much about stories, and lore, etc.), but I'd love it to be complex (like WOG), and more importantly, to be god damn mythological (not with mistresses, laser-shooting cyclops, ninjas, and other retarded units/heroes)
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted October 19, 2015 06:42 AM |
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monere said:
(not with mistresses, laser-shooting cyclops, ninjas, and other retarded units/heroes)
Okay, we can all agree laser shooting cyclops are just silly, but what's the problem with mistresses and ninjas..? We can't have strong females and historical units from elsewhere than mediaval Europe...?
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted October 19, 2015 08:20 AM |
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Mediczero said:
monere said:
(not with mistresses, laser-shooting cyclops, ninjas, and other retarded units/heroes)
Okay, we can all agree laser shooting cyclops are just silly, but what's the problem with mistresses and ninjas..? We can't have strong females and historical units from elsewhere than mediaval Europe...?
I don't mind having creatures from outside Europe (dragons are Asian, aren't they?), but mistresses??? Come on now! Heroes, above all, is a mythological game (see H 1-3, which seem to be the reference for everything Heroes-related), so what do mistresses have to do with mythology? Or better said, with ancient fights. The mistress has to do with sexual pleasures, and that's about it.
Also, ninjas... they are recent age-type of unit, not medieval.
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted October 19, 2015 10:30 AM |
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Okay first, ninjas are not a recent thing, they have existed in Japaneese culture for several centuries, perhaps as long back as the medieval. But in anycase they fits as they're technological level aren't much higher than all the others.
As for the mistress, they are more of an cultural thing. Works for inferno regardsless...
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 19, 2015 10:41 AM |
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted October 19, 2015 10:44 AM |
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I love steampunk, but let's keep it out of Cyber to preserve a bit of fantasy feel...
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Pim18
Known Hero
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posted October 19, 2015 04:41 PM |
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While I do like the idea of a fanmade spiritual successor of the games I do think that kickstarter and indiegogo are bad ideas.
Due to a lot of poor products being released out of crowdfunding lately. Not to mention the fact that you will need to create backers rewards to get people to pledge in the first place. While we do have a lot of talented people on this forum I doubt that we have the capacity to create a fully fledged kickstarter.
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Dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted October 19, 2015 06:46 PM |
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Pim18 said:
Not to mention the fact that you will need to create backers rewards to get people to pledge in the first place.
Totally forgot about this. It will forward some of the effort an mem power to fulfil unnecessary rewards.
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PROJ
Known Hero
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posted October 19, 2015 09:32 PM |
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This is incredibly unrealistic and will probably never come close to happening unless a well known dev/studio tries to do it. Even then, it's a long shot; these kinds of games are incredibly difficult, expensive, and time-consuming to make
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Pim18
Known Hero
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posted October 19, 2015 10:21 PM |
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PROJ said:
This is incredibly unrealistic and will probably never come close to happening unless a well known dev/studio tries to do it. Even then, it's a long shot; these kinds of games are incredibly difficult, expensive, and time-consuming to make
^^^^
Basically this.
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted October 19, 2015 11:24 PM |
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Give it 5 years and I will cook something up 
Whatever happens, I would like the franchise to placate for a while. I'd rather a new franchise was started altogether, taking certain positives from homm, but introducing enough novelties to make it stand out (be it in the form of a skill system, lineups, world). Much like HOMM branched off from KB and moved on to become a staple.
The good thing about whatever ordeal you cook up is that there are very very many up and ocming studios who would love a project of this sort, since H3 is undoubtedly one of the most played (strategy) games ever (as in most widely tested at least once). The bad thing is you would pretty much have to saddle in a guy with enough mojo not only to lead the development processes in the company, but also to create and write the world from scratch.
It would undoubtedly require targeted marketing though... and a very niche one at that. But there are ways around that
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