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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Cop drags student to arrest her, ends up losing his job
Thread: Cop drags student to arrest her, ends up losing his job This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
posted November 03, 2015 08:26 PM

Stevie said:
The thing that bothers me the most from all this is that you have to explain this type of things to adults in the 21st century. Because for some reason society cannot comprehend use of physical force against the unruly, especially when it comes to kids.


IMO it's because people no longer know the difference between physical force for correcting the unruly and physical violence against innocent victims, or what discipline should really be about. I am not saying everyone should be like in an army either, but not completely oblivious and self-absorbed either.

Some say political correctness is necessary. Not when they abuse it, it isn't.

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted November 03, 2015 08:27 PM

Violence is justified if there is a big enough problem and other peaceful means did not work. What should we do, let her disrupt all the classes she wants? It's a shame, now that someone else pointed out her context. Losing both parents is not fun at all. I suppose people should just tell her that we've all done stupid things as a youth and it's no big deal.

The arrest is rough but not what I consider "violent'. He did so without punches, without kicks, and some media calls it a "body slam" when she just got dragged on the ground for 2 meters. People recover from that easy, she was just dizzy. I remember a real body slam from a cop that ended up on TV like a year ago ; a cop did a closeline kind of tackle on an elderly latino guy that was just standing there doing nothing and he had permanent injury from it. Half paralyzed I think? Anyways. That wasn't a "body slam" lol. Wrestling on concrete is very real.

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted November 03, 2015 08:39 PM

Elodin said:

Please edit your post as you made up a statement and falsely attributed attributed it to me.  


No I didn't. That's what "politically correct" means. Treating people with respect. "politically incorrect" means being a snowhead.

fred79 said:

oh, i could just address this one. in fact, i feel compelled to. i can't TELL you how many times i've seen THIS one work. at the stores, in the parking lots, at the mall, on the streets, even with the daycare parents my mom deals with...

just... countless times, that dealing with unruly youth calmly, works.


Sometimes you also need to be harsh. You can be harsh and calm at the same time you know
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Neraus
Neraus


Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
posted November 03, 2015 08:44 PM

kiryu133 said:
Elodin said:

Please edit your post as you made up a statement and falsely attributed attributed it to me.  


No I didn't. That's what "politically correct" means. Treating people with respect. "politically incorrect" means being a snowhead.



Did you miss my post? Politically correct is simply giving a pass at people, not treating them with respect, unless you think that being treated like a child is respectful.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 03, 2015 08:45 PM

I've seen too many videos of plain brutality abuse from US cops side to caution this kind of behavior. School is a sanctuary everyone seems to ignore. In school we learn values, morals. Brutality from law Representatives in such sanctuary tells much about the importance America accords to education.

I don't say a totally passive attitude as in Europe is better, but it certainly create less hate and resentment. Which helps when kids become adults. Family responsibility is in cause here, they must be held responsible of kid's behavior. And if there is no family, then the state has an increased educative role to play and that unfortunate youth future, not threat it as a punching ball.  
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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
posted November 03, 2015 08:45 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 20:50, 03 Nov 2015.

Quote:
I suppose people should just tell her that we've all done stupid things as a youth and it's no big deal


Yeah my teacher back in hungary (when I was 9) would whack me across the head and said Sandor stop being stupid and that's all it took, didn't hurt much just knocked some sense into me. But that police officer, that snow is snowing scary, I can't explain it, the difference between my world and her's is miles apart, yet the basic principle is the same, discipline through violence, there's a right and wrong way to do it, and the American one is wrong, it doesn't lead to her behaving, it's cutting your losses, she's a lost cause so arrest her and condemn her to a life of mediocrity rather than taking the effort to understand what to correct response to that kind of behaviour is (hence why the teacher in this instance is clearly incompetent).

Being a teacher isn't about just transmuting textbooks to kids, it's a social role, you have to bond with them and understand them, only a truly crap teacher doesn't care about their students.
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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted November 03, 2015 08:51 PM
Edited by kiryu133 at 20:55, 03 Nov 2015.

Neraus said:


Did you miss my post? Politically correct is simply giving a pass at people, not treating them with respect, unless you think that being treated like a child is respectful.


Being "politically correct" is for example to make sure words that are offensive to a group of people are not used lightly. For example, you shouldn't use "gay" as an insult because it not only insults the person, but implies that everyone who is "gay" are lesser beings not worthy of consideration. As such, using the word is disrespectful to every homosexual on the planet while avoiding it is respectful to them. Being "politically incorrect" means you don't give a hoot about insulting or being disrespectful to entire groups of people.

It's not about being treated as a child. It's about not being dragged through the mud because some snowhead doesn't want to update his or her vocabulary.

EDIT:
Changed example word to "gay" since the original example is censored (yay!)
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted November 03, 2015 08:58 PM

Quote:
No I didn't. That's what "politically correct" means. Treating people with respect. "politically incorrect" means being a snowhead


Save the misquotes for the Wastelands.  It looks like dishonesty when you deliberately make up a sentence and attribute your creation to someone else.  Doing such a thing is unfair to the person you falsely attributed the "quote" to and it leads to confusion in the topic. Please do not make up stuff and say I said it.
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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 03, 2015 09:03 PM
Edited by fred79 at 21:04, 03 Nov 2015.

kiryu133 said:
Sometimes you also need to be harsh. You can be harsh and calm at the same time you know


harsh AND calm? at the same time?! by the gods! how does one achieve such a state? please tell me! i've tried meditation, lucid dreaming, even punching myself in the nuts repeatedly. and yet this state of being STILL eludes me!

lol, actually what you're referring to is discipline, which while it can appear harsh, is designed to instill good.

and a cop's job isn't to discipline the unruly; but collect them and put them into cages(if need be), by any means necessary, if he has to. the discipline comes from being incarcerated.

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted November 03, 2015 09:05 PM

I thought politically correct meant not saying things that could be offensive, whether they are indeed offensive words or just to avoid hurting someone's feelings.

It's time to grab our urban dictionary again! *adjusts his glasses and reads it with a dignified air*

Oh jeez. If I wrote down the definitions, a forum moderator would certainly intervene! Let me try an actual dictionary lol.

"agreeing with the idea that people should be careful to not use language or behave in a way that could offend a particular group of people"

"conforming to a belief that language and practices which could offend political sensibilities (as in matters of sex or race) should be eliminated"

I'm more of a "it always depends" kind of guy, and while political correctness is well intentioned, it can also block trains of thoughts and reasoning to the point of preventing us from fully analyzing a subject.

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted November 03, 2015 09:13 PM

fred79 said:


and a cop's job isn't to discipline the unruly; but collect them and put them into cages(if need be), by any means necessary, if he has to. the discipline comes from being incarcerated.


They're doing a pretty piss-poor job of it over in the states

Yes, discipline is the word I'm seeking. A cop's job should be to protect the citizens. Disciplining should be a separate job. One that entails not punishing criminals, put helping them get back into society as productive individuals through therapy and care. Similar, if you will, as helping youth avoid becoming criminals in the first place.
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Zeki
Zeki


Supreme Hero
sup
posted November 03, 2015 09:14 PM

fred79 said:
Zeki said:
Wow, how could anybody defend the cop's behavior?! That was just brutal and uncalled for. Besides, wouldn't it have been enough to take her phone away? Also fred, you should get some help man.


i'll get right on that. thanks for the advice.


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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted November 03, 2015 09:20 PM

Quote:
You never, ever use violence or force against stundents or children. Never ever. No buts, exceptions or infringements


So....if little Johnny is raping Becky in the class it is wrong to pull Johnny off of Becky because never ever is it right to use force against students. No but, exceptions, or infringements. Never ever.  

I can't agree that force is never justified against students.  

If an officer informs someone that he is under arrest and The person refuses to cooperate force to take that person into custody us always justified. That is necessary to keep law and order in society.  Otherwise anarchy results.

If you can't do the time don't do the crime.
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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
posted November 03, 2015 09:23 PM

fred79 said:
kiryu133 said:
Sometimes you also need to be harsh. You can be harsh and calm at the same time you know


harsh AND calm? at the same time?! by the gods! how does one achieve such a state? please tell me! i've tried meditation, lucid dreaming, even punching myself in the nuts repeatedly. and yet this state of being STILL eludes me!

lol, actually what you're referring to is discipline, which while it can appear harsh, is designed to instill good.

and a cop's job isn't to discipline the unruly; but collect them and put them into cages(if need be), by any means necessary, if he has to. the discipline comes from being incarcerated.


You said it better fred but I'll continue: You can't be both at the same time. You need to KNOW when to be harsh and when to be calm, adapting to the situation and the persons involved.

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Neraus
Neraus


Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
posted November 03, 2015 09:24 PM
Edited by Neraus at 21:33, 03 Nov 2015.

kiryu133 said:
Neraus said:


Did you miss my post? Politically correct is simply giving a pass at people, not treating them with respect, unless you think that being treated like a child is respectful.


Being "politically correct" is for example to make sure words that are offensive to a group of people are not used lightly. For example, you shouldn't use "gay" as an insult because it not only insults the person, but implies that everyone who is "gay" are lesser beings not worthy of consideration. As such, using the word is disrespectful to every homosexual on the planet while avoiding it is respectful to them. Being "politically incorrect" means you don't give a hoot about insulting or being disrespectful to entire groups of people.

It's not about being treated as a child. It's about not being dragged through the mud because some snowhead doesn't want to update his or her vocabulary.

EDIT:
Changed example word to "gay" since the original example is censored (yay!)



Life isn't politically correct though, as I see it unsensitive people are the filter to success, what is the reaction to the insult, should it be annoyance or full blown panic attack?

People have to grow a thick skin, it's always useful, no matter what in a fit of rage people won't think of the words they're using, so allowing the media and our daily conversations to become devoid of this part of communication is going in the long run to damage people, and besides, this way you're making talking negatively about gay people, black people, muslims etc. a taboo, and you know what? Anti-conformists will be the first to ignore that taboo and you'll be at the beginning of the situation with a worse emotional damage than it was at the beginning.

And by the way, why is joking about a group of people so bad, offence is never given and it's always taken, I laugh at jokes about priests and nuns and I'm a ultra traditionalist Catholic, I laugh at jokes about theists and Creationists, I don't get offended when people criticize a member of the Church, and as an ultra nationalist Sicilian I laugh at jokes about "Terroni" and Mafia, I laugh when people complain about our lateness.

At this point I may be an anomaly then, because laughing at offensive jokes directed at the groups you identify in is apparently impossible.

Tell me this, if a joke is actually funny, but it is about black people, does that mean they can't enjoy such a joke?

And I'm not talking about "jokes" like "muh 6 gorillion", but actual funny jokes.
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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
posted November 03, 2015 09:32 PM
Edited by Drakon-Deus at 21:36, 03 Nov 2015.

Good post, Neraus. And another thing about "PC" : People need to know when something is offensive and when they just see things that aren't there and "protect" a group to the extreme. That can lead to endless talk about what is acceptable and what is not.

People should think outside of these conventions in my opinion.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted November 03, 2015 09:50 PM

No one was talking about joking or jokes before Neraus.
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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted November 03, 2015 09:51 PM

Does the joke perpetuate harmful stereotypes (like trans people being "traps"(which is the kind of attitude that makes sure the suicide rates are so snowing high for trans people))? then no, you shouldn't laugh at it.

Anyway, I think we can leave this particular discussion for another thread.
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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 03, 2015 10:33 PM

Drakon-Deus said:
You said it better fred but I'll continue: You can't be both at the same time. You need to KNOW when to be harsh and when to be calm, adapting to the situation and the persons involved.


exactly. see, dd knows what i'm talking about. the cop should've used a flamethrower.

Zeki said:





kiryu133 said:
Disciplining should be a separate job. One that entails not punishing criminals, put helping them get back into society as productive individuals through therapy and care. Similar, if you will, as helping youth avoid becoming criminals in the first place.


yes, certainly. like the white-collar criminals having their own resort prison, seperate from the violent inmates, who only have cable and internet(and no tennis court).

but somehow, people just keep right on committing crimes... huh. it CAN'T be because they have it relatively easy in jails and prisons... or CAN it? i just don't know anymore!


kiryu, it looks like it's up to you to teach the rest of the world. i'm hanging up my garter. *hangs up teaching garter over the fireplace next to the christmas stockings, then takes down and puts on his rubber pants of laziness*

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Neraus
Neraus


Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
posted November 03, 2015 10:42 PM

@Minion

I was responding to Kiryu's assertion about political correctness, as an example of applying PC rules, I kind of get carried over when talking about these things, but I didn't intend to make a discussion about jokes.

Anyway, my point was, infantilizing people is not a good idea, especially when that leads to us not being assertive enough to children, they need to understand what rules and authority are, if we're going to treat them with soft gloves whatever they do we're doomed to them acting like brats, sometimes they need to be shown what their behaviour will reward them.

If we aren't stern with other adults, then how can we be stern with children? That was my point basically.
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