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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: The ideal faction lineups
Thread: The ideal faction lineups This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted November 27, 2015 11:48 AM

@Raenus It's been ages since I read the books, but the only real time dwarves were allied to elves was during The Last Alliance which was the original war against Sauron on Middle-Earth. As I recall it was Lindon, Mirkwood, Lothlorien & Rivendell from Elves, Descendants of Numenor(Arnor at that point), Gondor(Humans who I think had some connection to Numenorean lineage also) and Khazad-Dum/Moria which was dwarves at that point. Even with that you could make the claim that dwarves were forced participants as otherwise Sauron would have eventually taken the whole Middle-Earth. Also Moria wasn't majority of dwarves while elves and men gathered as massive army as they could.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Bad-mannered
Legendary Hero
Everywhere and nowhere
posted November 27, 2015 11:50 AM

OK, new page so I'll repeat myself. Legolas and Gilmli showed that the two races can get along just fine. That is the only thing which matters for me.

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted November 27, 2015 11:57 AM

Reply to TD
Okay, mostly looks okay, some pretty standdard, other things...
Firstly, Asylum(dungeon) got 3 top tier, where as all others only got 2. Is it some kind of mistake, or..?

Secondly, stronghold. Firstly, I can't uderstand why both ogre and centaur are core creatures. These are in most matters of logic  to strong for that tier (or atleast the ogre)
And why a "berserker"!? Honestly given that descrbtion it sounds more like a sort of giant, and is nowhere fitting to be called a berserker. A berserker is an enraged warrior, not a hulking monster! Honestly why not let the cyclop take that role..?

But as you said, it's how you would like it.

Reply to Drakon-Deus & Raenus
Okay, my opinion on the dwarves is that they should be a part of a viking town, taking inspiration from norse mythology.

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TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted November 27, 2015 12:21 PM

@Medic No, it's not a mistake that Asylum has 3 champions. It's a unique point for the faction, you get to choose only 1 anyway.

As for centaur, I don't see why it would be anything stronger than core. It's practically basic horseman except mythology version. Kinda like h1-h5. Just think of h7 for example, only unit that looks weaker than them is harpies... As for ogre they aren't really Wyvern, Wendigo nor cyclops level, but they are above centaurs and goblins clearly so they are just more expensive and less numerous cores(heck not like I would use the 3/5-tier system anyway, but since it's the format others used).

Cyclops I consider as capable of thinking so I made strict difference there. I also would like them to be more like h4 or h3, not the meatballs from h6/h7.

For the Berserker yes I do actually mean giant basically that has no real reasoning. Couple quick google pics I could see fitting what I have in mind:
1
2


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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted November 27, 2015 12:46 PM

I wouldnt mind if the next heroes had dwarves as slaves for the elves. Or better, no dwarves at all

Mediczero said:
GenyaArikado said:
I dont care that much about those factions XD so think their H7 lineups were perfect tbh.

I was talking in the supposed case that Necro skill was like H3 or 7 ofc

I used Lordess because thats the term used for Ludmilla, not because i like it a lot XD

Well okay.
Also, what are your argument for the Lamasu..?


The only thing that needs to change about Lammasus is your opinion about it. There is nothing wrong with them.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Bad-mannered
Legendary Hero
Everywhere and nowhere
posted November 27, 2015 12:53 PM

Personally good Eleves are overrated as well as evil Elves. I prefer the pure neutral ones, kind of like Thranduil's guys.

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted November 27, 2015 02:43 PM

Reply to TD
Okay, but the problem is that by having three champions in only one faction is that it makes the other seem lesser. The number of different unit shouldn't vary from between faction, only the different kinds of units.

As for the centaur/ogre part, you are basicly implying that a large orc creature and a man/woman with the behinde of an entire horse are at the same level as a skeleton, a pleasant or a grimling. Can absolutely see no logic behind that. If it would be possible, I would perfer the orc and harpy to take their spots.

Cyclop can think yes, as well as being quiet well rounded in size, making them more useful than an uncontrollable giant, even without being a hulk like in H5/6/7. Beside, why should stronghold have two giant melee tank as champions..?

Reply to GenyaArikado
I never said the Lamasu was bad (although so far it's only versions has been pretty weak), I merely asked why you picked it.
Also, as a scandinavian I cannot accept slave dwarfs.

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moonshade
moonshade


Known Hero
posted November 27, 2015 03:49 PM
Edited by moonshade at 14:33, 29 Nov 2015.

4 more factions: Inferno, Fortress (swamp/dwarf), Sanctuary

Inferno

Core

Imp, Hell Hound, Cultist

Elite

Abyssal Worm, Efreet, Succubus

Champion

Devil, Pit Lord

Fortress (swamp)

Core

Lizardman, Shambler (a hungry mass of mud & leaves, given life by a magical tiki-mask!), Bloodsucker (from Might and Magic 6)

Elite

Crone, Gorgon, Wyvern

Champion

Hydra (or Basilisk, if Hydras are in Dungeon), War Toad (play the new Witcher 3 expansion to see a badass toad done right!)

Fortress (dwarves)

Core

Dwarf Ironguard, White Wolf, Halfling Skirmisher

Elite

Valkyrie, Forge Keeper (a rune-based golem), Ice Drake

Champion

Jotunn, Fire Dragon

Sanctuary

Core

Sharkguard, Sirine, Reef Serpent

Elite

Manta Ray, Yuki Onna, Kensei

Champion

Kirin, Akkorokamui (the Japanese variant of the Kraken- a giant squid/octopus monster)

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted November 27, 2015 04:32 PM

Nice!
But if I may ask, what do you mean with Crone..?

But I agree, that's a badass toad.
All in all, lineups I can agree with. Although I'd perfer some mythological creature over the war mole, like a valkyrie or an einherjar.
Also, the giant crab could be called Krakinos.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Bad-mannered
Legendary Hero
Everywhere and nowhere
posted November 27, 2015 09:10 PM

^ I agree. I forgot to mention the old Fortress or Swamp-themed town. Hey, it was only in one game! I like moonshade's preferred line-ups, anyway.

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moonshade
moonshade


Known Hero
posted November 27, 2015 09:16 PM

Responses

First, I applied some of your ideas to the line-ups.

Crones- as in vile & cannibalistic fey-creatures appearing as monstrous old women, specialized in curses. Hags/Crones are a part of nearly every myth, but again- Witcher 3's Three Sisters (Whipess, Brewess and Weavess) are a great example of Crones done right (though these three would obviously be Champion-level/part of a unique Boss encounter).

In my HOMM vision, I think the Fortress/swamp faction should a neutral faction but somehow leaning towards evil/darkness- as seen by their savagery, association with poison & curses & affinity with the Undead (being one of the only factions besides the obvious Necropolis who can raise Undead reinforcements- related to their Voodoo/witchcraft theme).

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Raenus
Raenus


Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
posted November 27, 2015 09:22 PM
Edited by Raenus at 00:50, 30 Nov 2015.

TD said:
@Raenus It's been ages since I read the books, but the only real time dwarves were allied to elves was during The Last Alliance which was the original war against Sauron on Middle-Earth. As I recall it was Lindon, Mirkwood, Lothlorien & Rivendell from Elves, Descendants of Numenor(Arnor at that point), Gondor(Humans who I think had some connection to Numenorean lineage also) and Khazad-Dum/Moria which was dwarves at that point. Even with that you could make the claim that dwarves were forced participants as otherwise Sauron would have eventually taken the whole Middle-Earth. Also Moria wasn't majority of dwarves while elves and men gathered as massive army as they could.

Completely forgot about that, I need to go dust off my books.

But yeah, if you are a fan of dwarves and elves being allies, fine, nothing wrong with that. Just don't justify your preferences by citing Tolkien. Dwarf-Elf alliances are in no way canon to his lore.
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Creature Quest: HaltWhoGoesThere

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted November 27, 2015 09:34 PM
Edited by Mediczero at 21:39, 27 Nov 2015.

Reply to moonshade
I completely agree with your vision of the swamp town (I ususally calls it Citadel) as being an inbetween neutral and evil, and I love the woodoo-witchcraft theme going on!
However I'm slightly hesitant about the crone. I just generally dislike having older people besides some heroes, makes more sense most of the army to be younger people. Although I quess I can accept the crone. What I personally would like to have as well would be some dangerous aluring spirit in the core, like a nixie. Would round it up a little better.

BTW, a more accurate name for the frost giant would be Jotunn.

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moonshade
moonshade


Known Hero
posted November 28, 2015 12:09 AM

About Crones..

remember they're not human- age doesn't make them weaker, even the contrary. Their aged appearance hides a terrifying strength, and an even more terrifying hunger for human flesh...

While more powerful Crones (aka heroes) can shapeshift into more alluring forms in order to seduce victims, the standard ones keep their normal hideous appearance. Nixies are nice & all, but they overlap too much with Sprites or Dryads. I originally wanted to put Will O' Wisps as the 3rd Fortress Core, and give them a seduction/hypnosis related ability- but I couldn't resist finally picking the wonderfully disgusting Bloodsuckers! So if you want beautiful & evil seductresses, pick Inferno with their Succubi.

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted November 28, 2015 09:59 AM

moonshade said:
remember they're not human- age doesn't make them weaker, even the contrary. Their aged appearance hides a terrifying strength, and an even more terrifying hunger for human flesh...

While more powerful Crones (aka heroes) can shapeshift into more alluring forms in order to seduce victims, the standard ones keep their normal hideous appearance. Nixies are nice & all, but they overlap too much with Sprites or Dryads. I originally wanted to put Will O' Wisps as the 3rd Fortress Core, and give them a seduction/hypnosis related ability- but I couldn't resist finally picking the wonderfully disgusting Bloodsuckers! So if you want beautiful & evil seductresses, pick Inferno with their Succubi.

Meh, each their own.

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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted November 28, 2015 10:32 AM

I like the Crone concept tbh. Its kinda like a hag

------

@Raenaus i wasnt asking you if you liked dwarven slaves. I couldnt care less about your opinion. Thats just what they should be. Hope their cities fall into the lava.

And wtf are you doing paying attention to Rakshasa? He said barn owls were mythological creatures (because thats what a Lechuza is lol)

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Raenus
Raenus


Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
posted November 29, 2015 01:06 AM
Edited by Raenus at 00:51, 30 Nov 2015.

GenyaArikado said:

@Raenaus i wasnt asking you if you liked dwarven slaves. I couldnt care less about your opinion. Thats just what they should be. Hope their cities fall into the lava.

And wtf are you doing paying attention to Rakshasa? He said barn owls were mythological creatures (because thats what a Lechuza is lol)

Well, good for you. But sad to say I didn't even read your post. I was just discussing Tolkiens lore with Drakon. I never even stated my opinion on the matter, so saying you don't care about something I never even said is a fairly petty thing to do.
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Creature Quest: HaltWhoGoesThere

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Bad-mannered
Legendary Hero
Everywhere and nowhere
posted November 29, 2015 02:48 PM

Raenus: I said why I like them as allies, not related so much to JRR Tolkien's work as much as what we learn from it, specifically with Legolas and Gimli. Hope it's cleared now.

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moonshade
moonshade


Known Hero
posted November 29, 2015 05:56 PM

Well, HOMM doesn't have to be a Tolkien clone...

which means if you view your "ideal" Sylvan as a Dwarven/Elven alliance (or a Dark Elf/Dvergar alliance in Dungeon, which actually makes more sense), you can have it that way. In my Utopia suggestion, for example, the Dwarves are an evil & tyrannical race obsessed with domination & industry and are allied with like-minded Minotaurs and Demons, as part of the Dominion faction.

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted November 29, 2015 06:23 PM

moonshade said:
which means if you view your "ideal" Sylvan as a Dwarven/Elven alliance (or a Dark Elf/Dvergar alliance in Dungeon, which actually makes more sense), you can have it that way. In my Utopia suggestion, for example, the Dwarves are an evil & tyrannical race obsessed with domination & industry and are allied with like-minded Minotaurs and Demons, as part of the Dominion faction.

Well personally dislikes you're "evil" dwarf idea, as I see no through good, nor no evil. That, and as a lover of nordic mythology (being from scandinavia) I can't support it. But that belongs elsewhere.

However, that idea of an union between dwarfs and dark elves, that sounds fun actually!

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