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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 18, 2018 09:32 AM |
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1. a mall is a building with a bunch of different stores in it, seperated by walkways.
2. walmart is one (1) store.
3. a strip mall is a bunch of external stores next to one another, but all part of the same building.
regardless, we're way off topic now.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 18, 2018 09:45 AM |
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Edited by artu at 09:46, 18 Feb 2018.
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Yes, there are those differences, no objection there. I said the same in my previous post. It doesnt change the fact you can pick up bullets like buying a six-pack while you're driving through a gas station. Gun ownership is also legal here, we also have malls and chain stores, yet I never saw bullet boxes on the shelves. Because bullets are not part of your every day consuming products.
Think of it like this, cigarettes are still legal right, but they are not advertised or promoted like they used to be in the 1950's. There is a strong public awareness about their danger, they are sold with caution and not encouraged to have. Guns are sold like cigarettes in the rest of the world, meanwhile you consume guns like cigarettes were consumed in the 50's.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 18, 2018 09:49 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 10:05, 18 Feb 2018.
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i'm not arguing that there's a gun culture here. i'm not even arguing that gun lobbyists don't have a hand in driving that gun culture, either. that's why i quit* the nra. doesn't mean i think guns are bad.
and now we're back to square one of this circular argument. 
*i mean quit being a member, lol. i was never employed by them. 
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted February 18, 2018 09:43 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 21:44, 18 Feb 2018.
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You can't convince an american to live without a gun as long as he or a family member hasn't been an innocent victim of such a senseless gun shooting imho.
Those "good guys/guns - bad guys/guns" comics just show how limited many americans are in their way of thinking about a problem (no offense), which is present there every day.
So if many million private firearm owner didn't kill a person today, this is an argument PRO firearms? Don't you think EVERY SINGLE victim of such a gun shooting as one too much?
With your logic, every country should have weapons of mass distruction (good countries - bad countries), and when North Corea now wipes out Malaysia with nuclear bombs, weapons of mass destruction are still fine because 200+ countries didn't use THEIR bombs?
If I am a burglar and I expect the house owner to have a weapon, I will bring one too. And I will be the one shooting first, you can be sure about that. We have burglars here in germany too...of course by far not as many as you have in america...but we hardly have death victims involved in a burglary (refered to house owners)...how about you?
The question about "bad guys have easy access to weapons" is,
...why do you have SO MANY BAD GUYS in the US???
...why is every freaking prison in the US overcrowed??
...why do you have uncountable drug delicts in the US??
Perhaps not everything is allright with your system?
As long as you think America is so superior to all other countries, you probably won't change your mind.
Go to a european country (preferable middle or north), live there for 6 months and then go back to america and start comparing again. You will be surprised...
And NO, I do NOT dislike the USA...I've been there...I got family over there...and I saw many things where a european guy just shakes his head...(of course there are many good things too, where I said "Oh man...why don't we have that over here in germany???")
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 18, 2018 09:54 PM |
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Honestly, the topic has been done to death. Guns probably can help in some situations, but too many things have to click. That makes them not predictable, thus useless in a situation that threatens the life. Let's see:
1. You need an element of surprise, otherwise it's just "who draws/aims faster" roulette.
2. As you're getting mugged/robbed/whatever, the element of surprise is probably not on your side. Chances are you are sleeping, or walking somewhere minding your own business.
3. In a country everyone and his grandma owns a gun, you can pretty much expect criminal element to be aware of that and hence, use an approach that makes them probable to live another day and steal another wallet. And they are probably going to attain that by exploiting the element of surprise. Which brings me to the points above.
Sure, there are stories about a grandma fending off homerobbers due to her vintage colt .45 and her sharp ears, but that only makes me scratch my head and say only in America. I guess guns can have a point when your criminals are that dumb, but in Eastern Europe hellholes like mine, it's not going to happen. And a gun is not going to help you.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 18, 2018 10:44 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 10:57, 19 Feb 2018.
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angelito said:
Those "good guys/guns - bad guys/guns" comics just show how limited many americans are in their way of thinking about a problem (no offense), which is present there every day.
So if many million private firearm owner didn't kill a person today, this is an argument PRO firearms? Don't you think EVERY SINGLE victim of such a gun shooting as one too much?
With your logic, every country should have weapons of mass distruction (good countries - bad countries), and when North Corea now wipes out Malaysia with nuclear bombs, weapons of mass destruction are still fine because 200+ countries didn't use THEIR bombs?
If I am a burglar and I expect the house owner to have a weapon, I will bring one too. And I will be the one shooting first, you can be sure about that. We have burglars here in germany too...of course by far not as many as you have in america...but we hardly have death victims involved in a burglary (refered to house owners)...how about you?
The question about "bad guys have easy access to weapons" is,
...why do you have SO MANY BAD GUYS in the US???
...why is every freaking prison in the US overcrowed??
...why do you have uncountable drug delicts in the US??
Perhaps not everything is allright with your system?
As long as you think America is so superior to all other countries, you probably won't change your mind.
Go to a european country (preferable middle or north), live there for 6 months and then go back to america and start comparing again. You will be surprised...
And NO, I do NOT dislike the USA...I've been there...I got family over there...and I saw many things where a european guy just shakes his head...(of course there are many good things too, where I said "Oh man...why don't we have that over here in germany???")
well, firstly, i didn't make the comics. so if you don't like them, take it up with their authors, whoever they are. and, why is it you get-rid-of-your-security-so-you-can-be-helpless-like-us guys KEEP overlooking the glaring reality that i've repeatedly attempted to reach you guys with, in many an elaborate word?
why is that? why am i talking to a wall? you see, i UNDERSTAND what ALL OF YOU have been saying, but it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE HERE IN THE U.S. in fact, it DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE WHERE YOU ALL LIVE. put yours and your families lives in the hands of the cops? what's your response time over there? think you will live long enough to see them before you die at the hands of someone only wielding a knife? put your safety in the hands of your government? you are literally PEASANTS TO THEM.
and once again, i invite all of you to face the literal reality, that WHEREVER YOU LIVE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT, the u.s. and... jesus christ, i'll reiterate again: nearly... all... of... our... gun... crime... is... commmitted... by... criminals... with... illegal guns.
the key word here, folks, is ILLEGAL. like ILLEGAL DRUGS. that are READILY AVAILABLE ON THE STREETS. that AREN'T LEGAL, FFS. but "get rid of guns" is still your answer. WHY is it still your answer? read, and REREAD, this one paragraph, over and over, until it sinks in. MAKING SOMETHING ILLEGAL DOES NOT MAKE IT UNAVAILABLE. ESPECIALLY HERE IN THE STATES.
our ATF/FBI/CIA/NSA can verify that for you, if you don't want to take MY word for it.
so, let me repeat: if something is available, ESPECIALLY to criminals and other potential ne'er-do-wells, and that something is GUNS, then how are WE, as UNARMED LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS, supposed to keep ourselves and our loved ones safe? hmmmmm? hmmmmmmmm??? i'm waiting on you guys to answer this question, since LITERALLY NONE OF YOU HAVE.
why am i constantly repeating myself with you people? why did you not get the point the FIRST 5 times?
and WHERE the snow did I say that the u.s. was SUPERIOR to any other country? i said it was DIFFERENT. don't put words in my mouth, man, i hate that snow; especially when it's clear that you haven't been reading what i've been writing over and over and over... your obvious bias towards the u.s. is showing, angelito; despite your claims otherwise. you show me where i said SUPERIOR, and i'll eat my snowing computer. if you think i was eluding to any kind of superiority because we have guns and can change our government and you guys no longer can because you DON'T have guns, then that's just stating the obvious. we're not SUPERIOR because of that, and i never even ACTED like we were. but it seems you guys have a problem with facts.
well, here's a doozy for you all: no matter how much death happens in this country because of guns, the government or WHOEVER, will NEVER BE ABLE TO PHYSICALLY REMOVE EVERY GUN FROM ALL THE HOUSEHOLDS IN THE UNITED STATES. why? because it is logically AND logistically impossible. civilians outnumber the government, their agencies, all of the cops, EVERYONE in the u.s. who could actually TRY to take our guns away. and you know what? they WOULDN'T(*and i'm adding another reason why they wouldn't. because cops and the military here are THE most armed families in the u.s., simply because THEY know what's out there to protect their families against. there aren't just regular criminals and other less-than-friendly types, but armed and brutal gangs, the mexican cartels, serial killers, and MORE spree killers. THAT should tell you something: if cops and military families are the demographic MOST LIKELY TO HAVE GUNS IN THE HOUSE, do you REALLY think that THEY would actually attempt to DISARM anyone?). because they KNOW that they'd be facing insurmountable odds, and it would result to a civil war that would tear the country that we ALL SHARE, apart. they're not that stupid.
no, their only effective weapon now is media. they will do what they can to PROFIT off the deaths of men, women, children, WHOEVER, to try and get the guns out of our hands by acting like we are all potential ticking time bombs, in order to make our country just like all of yours; absolutely defenseless to an attack by an armed criminal or terrorist. if that IS even their agenda.
as to your 3(three) questions(lol), yes, you are absolutely right there. THERE is our problem. our criminals, and the way capitalism and it's pressure to be better than everyone else(you're not SOMETHING in this world if you don't have the big cars/family/fat paycheck/big house, etc) effects the sissified youth of today who have everything handed to them on a silver platter because their snow-ass parents are all pushovers who aren't allowed to whoop their kids' asses because that's suddenly CHILD ABUSE.
yeah, the PROBLEM that you guys seem to think getting rid of guns will fix, is how people AREN'T BEING TAUGHT TO DEAL WITH snow IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE DRUGS OR PSYCHOTHERAPY, AND CERTAINLY NOT BEING TAUGHT TO BECOME A DECENT MEMBER OF SOCIETY; BECAUSE OF ALL THIS NEW-AGE SPECIAL-SNOWFLAKE snow THAT THE AGE OF THE INTERNET HAS USHERED IN, and how COMPETITIVE CAPITALISM IS RUINING NOT ONLY HUMAN SOCIETY, BUT THE ENTIRE PLANET.
and what's MORE, is that the MEDIA ARE MAKING ANTI-HERO CELEBRITIES OUT OF THESE CLOWNS, BY CONSTANTLY TELEVISING THESE CREEPS, like THEY DIDN'T LEARN THAT WAS A BAD IDEA WITH THE SERIAL KILLERS IN THE 80'S.
these spree-killing snowwits are GOING FOR A HIGH SCORE, BECAUSE THE MEDIA IS MAKING THEM BIGGER THAN JESUS. fFs. but nobody even BRINGS THAT UP.
you want to place blame on these attacks, place your blame on the people in societies around the world snowing snow up like dumbasses who don't know how to cope, and the people who are making them CELEBRITIES. putting your blame in an inanimate object THAT DOES NOTHING ON IT'S OWN is MORE than a little ridiculous, don't you think? of course i know you don't, because none of this probably sunk in. i'm just pissing in the ocean here, because you guys will NEVER understand the REALITIES SURROUNDING YOU. that, or you just completely refuse to FACE THEM.
and btw, i DID live in germany for a year or so(i was in the army, remember?). but back then, you didn't have all the criminality and DANGER you have lurking around you guys now(if everything i see on the subject that isn't sheer "we are the world, we are the people" propaganda is to be taken at face value). so i think, that if the news and everything else is to be believed, then you of the unarmed nations NOW actually have something to worry about. and you think that getting rid of guns is the answer. lol, you guys don't even have any left to defend yourselves with. or, you're not ALLOWED to. good luck with that, really. i'm rooting for you guys, even if you're not rooting for us. or at least, the law-abiding among us.
because, despite your claims that unarming innocent civilians will protect innocent civilians, you're just playing into the hands of those who would seek to destroy us. that you can't see that, is... i don't even know how to describe it. really.
i'll leave off with someone else's words:
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i don't think you understand how weapons work. you can have all the martial arts training in the world but even some average joe with a knife is at a HUGE advantage over you, like "you don't even really stand a chance" kind of advantage.
ok, so then "just keep a knife for self defense." oops, too bad the criminal has a handgun so you don't stand a chance.
ok, then "just have a handgun". again, that criminal happens to have 30 rounds compared to your 10 so you're most definitely screwed. i can keep going on and on, but the point is, if you want to be safe you have to have fire superiority over your opponent.
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now, don't you think maybe the people in france would have liked to have firearms at their disposal when those gunmen came and attempted to massacre as many of them as possible? last i checked, french civilians weren't allowed to OWN the guns the attackers had at THEIR disposal.
i want to ask "are you getting it yet?", but i know none of you are.
(* added something else that certainly adds more weight to my point)
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 18, 2018 10:56 PM |
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Umm, no, french would not want to have guns, because all that we are taught, atm, is to hide. And is not a joke, we are performing a "hide-and-seek exercise" every 2 weeks, where they spend a valuable time teaching us what are the best places to hide, in case a terrorist attack occurs. Our future culture and behavior are already being draw.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 18, 2018 11:07 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 11:11, 19 Feb 2018.
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wow. that really sucks, man. 
if it's any consolation, many people here seem to want us to cower in fear and beg for our lives, too. and wait for the cops/feds to stop the snows from massacring as many of us as they can.
but they'll certainly never get that from every sensible gun-owner in the u.s., believe you-me. i'll be damned if i'd ever lose my ability to keep myself and my family safe. no snowing way. the florida shooting SHOULD have just showed everyone that people NEED to be carrying guns; because the cops, school, and fbi knew about this kid, and stood around doing NOTHING while he attacked and killed kids!
and you know why they most likely did? because it fits into the disarming narrative that the perspectiveless here, and the unknowing of so many over there seem to support.
edit: add to the tally of people who failed to stop this kid, a mental health organization in florida, who had scutinized him and decided that even though he CLEARLY had mental issues, that he was good to go. the list just keeps adding up, as to who's responsible for this shooter(besides the shooter himself) being able to commit multiple murders.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted February 19, 2018 12:05 PM |
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I'm guessing it's more of a sociological issue that's prevalent in America than it is gun availability. Gun availability just makes it easier to express the sociological problems faced by American society at large.
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 19, 2018 12:54 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 13:39, 19 Feb 2018.
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i think the main reason anti-gun people believe guns should be removed, is because they think the u.s. could ever be a more peaceful country if we simply didn't have guns.
they think that it's because of the GUNS, that it's more dangerous here than most other civilized countries. and that's a mistake. it's not because of the GUNS that we are a more dangerous nation to live in; it's because of WHO lives here. it's because of our predatory culture ITSELF.
it's not just because of our constitution, that law-abiding citizens need to stay armed. it is because we are "the land of the free". think about the kinds of people who founded this nation: people who weren't satisfied being under tyrannical rule. our forefathers wouldn't put up with snow like many others would. they WEREN'T complacent. i mean, ffs, they MASSACRED near the entire population of indians, all across the u.s. "now, how is that different from every other nation?", i hear you ask. the difference is, the ideology. and more than that, the different kind of people that specific ideology ATTRACTS.
on the one hand, you have freedom for freedom's sake, which is a noble cause(and will attract noble people). on the other, you have people(and this is a glaring flaw in humanity worldwide) wanting to EXPLOIT that freedom; to USE that very freedom to pursue selfish and/or harmful gains. think of it like this: if you are a criminal, and are faced with rules somewhere, where you can't do what you want, but another nation exists, where those very rules AREN'T AS STRICT, and the potential for gains is nearly "the sky's the limit"... where are you going to want to live/operate?
consider the old "gold rush" days: people going out into the desert/mountains/whatever(even as far north as alaska and beyond), to find gold. they killed the natives for it. they killed EACH OTHER for it. now, replace gold with anything else that capitalism tells you you need. start to see where i'm going with this?
THAT is the first building block on what makes americans pointedly DIFFERENT from the rest of the world. what makes our entire NATION different. the land the u.s. now sits on, was being repopulated with not only adventurists, but also with PREDATORY people, since 1492.
and those predatory people have only INCREASED BY THE MILLIONS since we became a nation. and why? because of what i said before: that predatory opportunists are going to try and find the least path of resistance to getting what they want. and what is the least path of resistance, if not a free and prosperous nation, where your government ISN'T restricting and taxing the living hell out of your profits at every turn?
picture the mafia from italy. know why they came over to the u.s.? for INCREASED PROFITS. they can EXPLOIT a nation such as ours. picture the drug gangs from south america and mexico. know why THEY came over to the u.s. and operate here? and THAT'S JUST(but not only) THE EXTERNAL CRIMINALS MOVING INTO THE U.S.
now, remember all those sporadic predatory people coming over here since 1492? all the people being BORN here, INTO a free nation where there were much LESS restrictions on predatory impulses, and much MORE opportunity to realize their own predatory dream? they've all been growing in number, as well. since 1492. hell, from all historic documents, columbus himself was predatory.
now, add to all this developing and ever-growing predatory demographic, with a nation that is governed by CAPITALISM(a predatory form of government), and you'll start to put two and two together. entire corporations here are predatory in nature. the t.v. PROGRAMMING HERE is predatory in nature. our MEDIA is predatory in nature. our POLITICIANS are predatory in nature. many of our POLICE are predatory in nature, just because the position PROVIDES POWER. all the organizations that CONTROL things here in the states are predatory in nature.
as you can see, our culture itself was FOUNDED on freedom AND PREDATION. the very FREEDOM to be PREDATORY. everything that americans are taught past the "share your toys" phase as children, DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS WHAT IS TAUGHT LATER BY CAPITALISM. do you see people SHARING their toys as adults? absolutely NOT. in capitalism, life is a race to get the biggest/most expensive/best EVERYTHING.
which is WHY the leaders of our nation feel so inclined to, say, INVADE OTHER NATIONS FOR THEIR OIL AND FOR CONTROL OF THEIR OTHER RESOURCES. like how our CIA TOPPLE GOVERNMENTS AND PUT THEIR OWN POLITICIANS IN POWER IN CERTAIN COUNTRIES WORLDWIDE, just so that the u.s. can "stay on top".
getting the picture yet? and you seriously think that our culture is so bad(and is consequently spreading across the globe), because LAW-ABIDING CIVILIANS OWN GUNS? what, exactly, do you think our guns are FOR? with a nation this full of, and with an ever-growing number of PREDATORY PEOPLE, how can the more gentle, law-abiding citizen NOT WANT TO PROTECT THEMSELVES? how ELSE are we supposed to make sure that that predation can't get to us IN OUR OWN HOMES, or when we're OUT IN PUBLIC?
understand, that we are NOT a nation of fear of predation. legal gun owners AREN'T AFRAID. what reason do we have to be afraid? we HAVE GUNS. ONLY WITHOUT THEM, ARE WE DEFENSELESS. the exact same as if an entire NATION didn't have a military. they'd be STEAMROLLED BY THOSE WHO DO. and they ARE. the indians weren't wiped out because the u.s. army and everyone who sought to take their land had BOWS AND ARROWS. it's because THEY HAD GUNS. do you see the balance of power yet? do you see that we have NO OTHER CHOICE IF WE WANT TO REMAIN AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE?
no, the people who ARE AFRAID, AND WANT GUNS GONE, ARE THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE THEM TO KEEP THEMSELVES SAFE. they base THEIR judgement of guns off of fear; instead of realizing that HERE, in this culture, with so MANY predators in our midst, that guns ARE THE SOLUTION TO THEIR FEAR.
so, believe me when i say that you comparing your unarmed nations, to the u.s., is completely irrelevant. WE ARE A DIFFERENT CULTURE, AND WE ARE SATURATED WITH A DIFFERENT KIND OF PEOPLE.
back when i was stationed in germany, i felt much safer over there. i could roam the streets and city without feeling like i was going to be mugged or killed.
when i got leave and came back to the states, i felt the danger IMMEDIATELY. the u.s. is NOT SAME CULTURE as the rest of the civilized world. honest, law-abiding citizens here NEED THEIR GUNS to STAY safe.
now, you other nations, with the influx of predatory immigrants, will eventually see what i'm talking about; because you're going to see how your culture CHANGES(and you should've already, ffs) when you have OPPORTUNISTS BY THE DROVES amongst you. you guys are just NOW getting a taste of what it's like ALL THE TIME, in the u.s.
and, i have no doubts, that you are all going to CHANGE YOUR MINDS about guns, once you have had a more in-depth look at what opportunists are CAPABLE OF. understand, that if you're not educating yourself in what happens when you let your guard down and put your lives in the hands of strangers, you WILL BE EDUCATED AGAINST YOUR WILL. only then, it will likely be TOO LATE.
there are opportunists worldwide(though, in much less concentrations in civilized countries, than the u.s.), and the reason why these opportunists have been able to do what they've done to UNARMED and supposedly PROTECTED people, is because THE LAW WILL NOT PROTECT YOU BY ITSELF. IT IS ONLY AN IDEA. relying on OTHERS to protect you, you are MUCH more likely to be hurt or killed. you HAVE to be able to protect YOURSELF. the answer to the opportunists isn't(and has NEVER PROVEN TO BE), "more safe zones". the answer to the opportunists, is to PROTECT YOURSELF. because SAFE ZONES WILL NOT. "SAFE" ZONES HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO BE UNSAFE ZONES.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 19, 2018 01:54 PM |
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Edited by artu at 14:21, 19 Feb 2018.
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fred said:
why is that? why am i talking to a wall?
You are THE wall in this matter. Many people refuted your argument of "having guns is an advantage during an attack" from countless angles, yet you dont hear any of it and repeat the same deaf argument which is an oversimplification to say the least. One more time, you CAN NOT prevent or fight back terrorist attacks or organized crime by individual arms, 90 percent of the time, it will make things worse. And it does. Those countries you call "helpless" have significantly less victims when it comes to gun related violence, you have significantly more, so it is A FACT that your guns DONT protect you in such situations but rather escalate the danger. Safe zones wont do it, because once guns are as common as they are in your country, it will be impossible to execute the idea.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 19, 2018 02:28 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 14:29, 19 Feb 2018.
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whatever, artu. you fail to acknowledge the reality of nearly everything i've said on this matter. you willfully ignore it, just like all the other anti-gun people do.
and just like them, you think your opinion changes fact.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 19, 2018 02:30 PM |
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Fred, the US of A isn't unique - instead it can be compared nicely with Australia, where things were very much the same as in the US. Until, some 20 years ago, after another mass shooting they were fed up and came up with very tight gun control laws (you may read more here).
Getting the desired effect.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 19, 2018 02:36 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 14:37, 19 Feb 2018.
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whatever. you don't live here, so you don't know. ask corribus if he thinks law-abiding citizens shouldn't have guns. protip: he lives in chicago. 
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 19, 2018 02:52 PM |
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We are talking about gun control, not prohibition -
but it's YOUR funeral over there, so go ahead and keep shooting each other's brains out. Just another case of natural selection, then.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 19, 2018 02:56 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
We are talking about gun control, not prohibition -
but it's YOUR funeral over there, so go ahead and keep shooting each other's brains out. Just another case of natural selection, then.
hey, i'm all for natural selection. and, i'm for gun control, as well. i already specified that, but you guys keep conveniently forgetting what i've repeated 1,000 times. by the way, i'm not bothering with any links regarding other countries, because they don't make a difference HERE. IN THE U.S. LIKE I'VE STATED MORE THAN ONCE ALREADY.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted February 19, 2018 03:01 PM |
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fred79 said:
whatever, artu. you fail to acknowledge the reality of nearly everything i've said on this matter. you willfully ignore it, just like all the other anti-gun people do.
I am anti-gun myself, but I am with you on that gun availability is merely an expression of a deeper, more sociological problem that exists in America. Couldn't really point a finger to it, until you indeed pointed out that America has a rather cutthroat mentality about itself; you either act like a predator, or become the prey. I wonder if the very strong resentment towards anything that even reeks of communism is one of the many causes or one of the many effects of that attitude - maybe both.
While I've only been on holiday to the US myself, I've never experienced that first hand, but it does line up with the way US policy is generally considered in the rest of the world: shoot first, ask questions later. Bush Jr. politics weren't nicknamed "cowboy diplomacy" for nothing. It's simply bred or ingrained into your culture.
Still, from my few visits there, I can say I've generally only met nice and friendly people. Maybe it's a regional thing, both times was in the west coast area (California, Washington, Oregon, to name a few) and I understand that general 'feel' differs from the east coast. But if that friendliness is prevalent, I don't see how you (as a people) wouldn't be able to change your attitude over a period of time (decades?) to get that poison out of your system? It isn't healthy, in any case.
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 19, 2018 03:09 PM |
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@ maurice:
of course it isn't healthy, but it's reality. i certainly WISH it could change, but until it does(and until there is a way to do it that wouldn't include disarming the innocent), here we are.
it's true different areas of the u.s. mainly house different kinds of people(among the non-violent, anyway). the west coast is more relaxed; and the east coast is more uptight(the rappers/simon phoenix in "demolition man" had it right, lol). guess which part of the country i'm from.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 19, 2018 04:32 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 16:45, 19 Feb 2018.
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(carried over from joonas's bait thread)
artu said:
Fred, you are not makig an extremely sophisticated point, on the contrary, your point is an oversimplification of the issue. And sometimes it is not even a point but rather crums of various semi-points wrapped up together to defend guns at all costs. You are the one objecting to factual statistical comparisons by half-baked arguments such as "we are different because our nation is more free than everybody else." The resaon people are not convinced by your arguments is not because you dont emphasize them, it is because they are extremely weak arguments. We do understand you, we STILL disagree. Because as I already said, you are rationalizing an anomaly out of emotional attachment.
fred79 said:
it only BECOMES emotional when you guys continually piss me off over me having to continually explain the obvious, artu. EVERY SPREE-KILLING TOOK PLACE IN SAFE ZONES.
that's a fact, artu. there's nothing emotional about that fact. i'm not EMOTIONAL over it. i'm EXASPERATED that you guys are STILL attempting to argue with FACT. and, you're NOT reading what i post; because you guys keep saying things that i CLEARLY refuted before, and act like i've never even addressed it. EVER.
if you don't want emotionality(people getting pissed off, in this case), then try not arguing with FACTS. because that's going to rub people the wrong way, believe it or not.
i mean, jj's argument was how AUSTRALIA slowed it's violence down by making tighter gun restrictions. AUSTRALIA isn't bordered by MEXICO, OR has the access to the same stuff that the u.s. does by the POUND, OR is even inhabited by a MIXING POT OF OPPORTUNISTS.
like i've reamed you guys with everything before, i stated facts, and you guys use every weak way you can to attempt to refute FACT.
now, who's making a half-baked argument? WHO'S not listening? you guys are.
fred79 said:
i type how i talk. if you notice, if something is more important, or my point is ignored(especially CONTINUALLY ignored), i tend to start typing like this.
if you read a post, but don't get what you're reading, or skip over something that leads to confusion or circular arguments down the line, then the points that were skipped over are going to be repeated and repeated while the person constantly repeating themselves over something that points out a fact, that people continually argue with by opinion, is going to get upset, and there's going to be an issue.
they don't understand that the correlations they think exist, make NO difference in reality. because people who want to kill, WILL. it is up to the individual to stop them. laws are just ideas, they aren't a bullet-proof vest, OR a gun.
artu said:
You are lost, fred. The sad part is you actually believe we are resisting facts. The more you talk the more I realize, my Muslim analogy was so spot on. You keep believing what you believe, dude. But for the last time, let me remind you that your argument about the safe zones had been answered twice already. You are the one ignoring replies, not anybody else. Anyway, this is not the place.
fred79 said:
yeah, I'M the one who's lost. and yet... i have the gun. huh. funny how that works. i'm able to protect myself and my family, while you can be gunned down with nothing in your hands that could actually defend yourself.
hey, maybe the weak statistics you use to refute a completely different area and environment will keep you from getting hurt? probably not, but you can hope, right?
artu said:
Tell me what part of this is too hard to understand, since it had been repeated like 6 times already:
Personal weapons are not an efficient way of protecting yourself from such attacks, never have they been seen to stop such attacks, and there will always be soft spots of opportunity if an attacker decides to mass-kill anyway.
Arming everyone to teeth, not only fails to prevent such attacks but in the long run, it escalates the gun violence, it gives the opposite result becuse it triggers a gun culture where such attacks become much more common. You had 29 mass shootings already in 2018. We had none yet. In such shootings, no civilian was able to Bruce Willis his way out of the shooting with his gun. It doesnt work that way.
wrong. personal weapons have stopped attacks. you just rarely see coverage of that, since... THE ATTACKS ARE NEARLY ALWAYS IN SAFE ZONES.
for god's sake, man. you're depressing the hell out of me, that you aren't putting 2 and 2 together. and, for the few times that attacks happened in a place where people were ALLOWED to carry firearms legally, personal firearms WERE used to stop the attack. you won't see much of that, because either the news doesn't cover it because it isn't part of their anti-gun narrative, or because it happens so infrequently BECAUSE these attacks are usually carried out in "safe zones". PLEASE do research so that you don't make even more bogus claims than you already are. lord jesus.
your last paragraph actually makes me want to blast off into outer space. dear christ. you are completely detached from the reality of this subject. completely. you might as well speculate what people on jupiter should do. :(
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 19, 2018 04:37 PM |
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artu said:
Tell me what part of this is too hard to understand, since it had been repeated like 6 times already:
Personal weapons are not an efficient way of protecting yourself from such attacks, never have they been seen to stop such attacks, and there will always be soft spots of opportunity if an attacker decides to mass-kill anyway.
Arming everyone to teeth, not only fails to prevent such attacks but in the long run, it escalates the gun violence, it gives the opposite result becuse it triggers a gun culture where such attacks become much more common. You had 29 mass shootings already in 2018. We had none yet. In such shootings, no civilian was able to Bruce Willis his way out of the shooting with his gun. It doesnt work that way.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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This thread is pages long: 
