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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: mass shootings in the u.s.
Thread: mass shootings in the u.s. This thread is 19 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 · «PREV / NEXT»
fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 07:36 PM

i thought this thread was about mass shootings... not about border issues. i made another thread for that. i think a couple people have.

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted December 03, 2015 07:45 PM

Do you really think the things being discussed here aren't intertwined?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 03, 2015 07:46 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 19:46, 03 Dec 2015.

fred79 said:
i think you forget who you are talking to, and what i believe. i'm not the kind of person you're describing, at all.


Not my fault that "you" in english is the only way to describe one billion people as well as the person you talk to. I was of course speaking about americains, in general. And ofc, all is firmly tied, culture and corruption, if the guns lobby wasn't such powerful and greedy, probably the sensed people would have already won, some reforms at least.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 03, 2015 07:47 PM

fred79 said:
kiryu133 said:
People who should have guns don't want them.


care to explain what you mean by that?

I think what he means is the people who are victims of gun violence are usually the ones who wouldn't prefer to own a gun or become an expert shooter in the first place, no matter what the law is.

I know this is not always the case in the U.S., but a regular person is usually not interested in owning a gun or learning to shoot. It would be like you taking an interest in chemical weapons, when you are not surrounded by guns on a daily basis, you simply feel distant to them.  
____________
...and the laymen's landscape is rife with quacks and people with strange agendas. - Corribus

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted December 03, 2015 07:55 PM

The motives of these kinda incidents are all above my head and don't need to understand reason why people do these. One big reason is unfortunately social media. This is phomenom what is spreding like a virus

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted December 03, 2015 07:56 PM
Edited by AlexSpl at 19:57, 03 Dec 2015.

Quote:
I know this is not always the case in the U.S., but a regular person is usually not interested in owning a gun or learning to shoot. It would be like you taking an interest in chemical weapons, when you are not surrounded by guns on a daily basis, you simply feel distant to them.


And? Let the government provide our safety?

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 03, 2015 07:59 PM

Yes. Violent crime levels are much lower in developed countries where most citizens are unarmed. It's not a hypothetical suggestion, it's a statistical fact.
____________
...and the laymen's landscape is rife with quacks and people with strange agendas. - Corribus

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted December 03, 2015 07:59 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 20:05, 03 Dec 2015.

Salamandre said:
Not my fault that "you" in english is the only way to describe one billion people as well as the person you talk to.

And yet people whose first language is english commit this error of interpretation at least as easily as we foreigners do.

AlexSpl said:
And? Let the government provide our safety?

Well, it has been working here. I don't see the fuss.

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted December 03, 2015 08:07 PM

Quote:
Yes. Violent crime levels are much lower in developed countries where most citizens are unarmed.

Like in North Korea? They don't even want to fight for their freedoms. They are born to be slaves to the system. This is not what Lincoln was dreaming of.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 03, 2015 08:10 PM

Of course, that's the problem with North Korea, if people had shotguns, they would have overthrown the Korean military by now!

No, like in any developed democracy except the U.S.
____________
...and the laymen's landscape is rife with quacks and people with strange agendas. - Corribus

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted December 03, 2015 08:22 PM

Frankly I almost want to see how one protects his freedom with a shotgun against Abrams.

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted December 03, 2015 08:25 PM

If you don't have a gun, if you aren't allowed to shoot, you will always be afraid of the men which have guns and allowed to shoot. It's a question of time when they'll feel themselves as a privileged class.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 08:26 PM
Edited by fred79 at 20:30, 03 Dec 2015.

Salamandre said:
Not my fault that "you" in english is the only way to describe one billion people as well as the person you talk to. I was of course speaking about americains, in general. And ofc, all is firmly tied, culture and corruption, if the guns lobby wasn't such powerful and greedy, probably the sensed people would have already won, some reforms at least.


you could have simply said, "americans". when you say "you", you are addressing that person directly. at least, in english. now, "you people", on the other hand...

i think one of the reasons there aren't greater gun reforms yet, is for the reason i stated before: about the government and the populace being at a stalemate. the government should know that it needs to get a handle on the civilians, but it is too busy exploiting them to do anything about it. besides the fact, that they really don't care, as long as they're in power. the civilian population(i think) knows that it needs to remove all of those currently in government positions, and replaced with people who have better values(yeah, like that'll ever happen. like you said, sal: any coup plans would be quickly squashed, by various government agencies and those with mob ties by removing the leaders of such a movement), but they're too busy being glad that they are alive and well enough to keep going back to work and to their families(not to mention, play with all the wonderful technological stuff we have; like mobile snowing phones). but what the american public fail to realize is that the government isn't keeping foreign threats from becoming a reality in the states; that would be the pentagon's(and our military's) job. i don't think the nsa, cia, and fbi are focused on outside threats as much as they are INSIDE threats. all they need is the patriot act to "do their duty". besides, it is the pentagon's(and the government's) need for a subdued and complacent public so that it can do pretty much whatever it wants globally to whoever. it's a trade off, and a bad one at that. but try telling that to anyone over here. sure, we don't have a lot of the horrible stuff that goes on in other countries, but we're not far from any of that.

you're certainly correct about the gun lobby, though. they exploit people's fears to push their agenda's. i think the warmongering stems from those same people, myself. that's why i quit the nra; because of all the stuff they were trying to sell me. it was rather obvious they are just using fear to sell the arms industry. just another businessman, same as the governments and agencies that run the world.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 03, 2015 08:41 PM

AlexSpl said:
If you don't have a gun, if you aren't allowed to shoot, you will always be afraid of the men which have guns and allowed to shoot. It's a question of time when they'll feel themselves as a privileged class.

Well, I hate to break it you but no matter what gun you own individually, you are still no match for any modern military technology. A mentally healthy and realistic American may shoot a burglar intruding his house but he will never shoot a soldier or a cop and expect to change any political agenda that way. So, if the problem was just fear, it would still be there. But it's not, totalitarian regimes indoctrinate their citizens to believe that their regime and order is how things should be handled. They are thought that obedience is necessary beginning from elementary school, even before that through family education. Most people who live under such a regime, adore their dictators. So, it's not an issue of ability, it's an issue of mentality. In today's world, you can not have a successful public revolt unless you are backed up by a powerful state anyway, in which case, they finance and help you organize the revolt. So, that's about global politics, not your individual right to bear arms.
____________
...and the laymen's landscape is rife with quacks and people with strange agendas. - Corribus

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 08:42 PM

artu said:
fred79 said:
kiryu133 said:
People who should have guns don't want them.


care to explain what you mean by that?

I think what he means is the people who are victims of gun violence are usually the ones who wouldn't prefer to own a gun or become an expert shooter in the first place, no matter what the law is.

I know this is not always the case in the U.S., but a regular person is usually not interested in owning a gun or learning to shoot. It would be like you taking an interest in chemical weapons, when you are not surrounded by guns on a daily basis, you simply feel distant to them.  


i think it depends on the person, mostly. there are people in my family who were raised around guns, who don't like them. and there were others, like me, who weren't raised around guns, who have always wanted them.

my sister doesn't like guns, because she was involved in a robbery once, at gunpoint. she even feels nervous around them. i have tried teaching both her and my mom that guns are just a tool that can be used to keep horrible things at bay, even eliminate them; but neither really dig the idea.

i, on the other hand, only had a gun displayed to me once as a threat. i still felt no fear from it(i was only asking a dude what time it was, because i thought it was after curfew. he had pulled out the gun because he must've thought i was going to try to rob him or something. i was in my teens then, in a bad neighborhood. after giving me the time, he told me he was an undercover cop. lol, my stepbrother ran at the sight of his gun, though. which is funny now, because later in life he robbed two pharmacies with a gun he stole from his sister's husband(or boyfriend, i forget now)).

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted December 03, 2015 08:42 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 20:43, 03 Dec 2015.

AlexSpl said:
If you don't have a gun, if you aren't allowed to shoot, you will always be afraid of the men which have guns and allowed to shoot. It's a question of time when they'll feel themselves as a privileged class.

Like when progressives say you live in a police state?

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted December 03, 2015 08:52 PM

Quote:
Like when progressives say you live in a police state?

Whether my logic is broken, or not, but my previous statement is obvious. It makes sense. No, I deny the word `police`! I just want to explain the idea behind the words.

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted December 03, 2015 08:56 PM

fred79 said:


my sister doesn't like guns, because she was involved in a robbery once, at gunpoint. she even feels nervous around them. i have tried teaching both her and my mom that guns are just a tool that can be used to keep horrible things at bay, even eliminate them; but neither really dig the idea.



I find calling guns "tools" to be very scary. They're not tools. They're weapons and they only have one purpose: to harm. Guns can't be use constructively, only destructively and celebrating something like that is what makes USA so damn scary. USA celebrates violence like no other.

I get why: guns are an extremely important cultural piece of american history. It's what got it free and what had it turn into the nation it is today. But this fetishised view of a weapon? As historically important as it is, that's all it should be: history.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted December 03, 2015 09:05 PM

I'd like to hear fred's theory of who or what is behind this attack? You have only hinted at a conspiracy but I'd like to know exactly what you think.
____________
Our consciousness should be global, our footprint local.

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted December 03, 2015 09:09 PM

Illegal immigrants, of course. No one will shoot their kin.

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