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Kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted February 26, 2018 02:31 PM |
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gotta love the lib "logic" on this one.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Trump is a nazi!
*school shooting happens*
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Trump take our guns!
Also, the more I look into it, the more staged the Parkland shooting seems.
Didn't the feds were tipped off many times about the shooter or so?
Also the two so called "survivors", you know, the verified twitter soy boy and the teen with allegedly non-traditional orientation. Look at them milking this story for all it's worth.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 26, 2018 02:44 PM |
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In fact, it is Trump himself suggesting or at least bringing up to arm the teachers and needless to say, even most Americans agree that the idea is simply plain crazy. A school is an environment which can not be treated like a headquarter, it literally sounds like something that an anti-gun comedy writer would write as a parody.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Tsar-ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted February 26, 2018 02:55 PM |
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I loved it, imagine a shooter having a firefight with his own teachers and a mass of innocents to soak up some lead. Cctv in schools aired to the public so we can all drink to the carnage (people betting on everything from who gets the takedown to how many innocents die). Trumps just using his head.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 26, 2018 03:09 PM |
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You can easily avoid that if you arm the students as well. It's actually that obvious. 
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 26, 2018 03:31 PM |
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people, the blame lies with not only the shooter, here. you're missing the obvious; this snow is as blatant as a stop sign, right in your face. even if this kid hadn't had access to legal guns, he'd have access to ILLEGAL guns. and the cops, feds, school, AND the people who mentally evaluated him would STILL be to blame. and if he had used an illegal gun, the ATF would be to blame, ON TOP OF EVERYONE ELSE WHO IS ALREADY TO BLAME. that you guys aren't getting the obvious, just plain blows my mind. you guys are more intelligent than this. i mean, goddamn.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted February 26, 2018 03:44 PM |
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artu said:
In fact, it is Trump himself suggesting or at least bringing up to arm the teachers and needless to say, even most Americans agree that the idea is simply plain crazy. A school is an environment which can not be treated like a headquarter, it literally sounds like something that an anti-gun comedy writer would write as a parody.
He did not say "Arm the Teachers" he said; "If we have ex-military or law-enforcement men and women that teach or are inside the school in some capacity, it may be a good idea to consider selecting a few to "carry and conceal". What is a tragic parody is making these situations a propaganda scene based on old wild-west visuals and not understanding the entire matter. If we do not yet have the whole-story we cannot find a reasonable solution.
Citizens cannot get crazy around powerful people or what happens? But yet, our children, our most important treasure can have a kid, that should have already been in custody, be given the time to do this.
That kid could have had a pump-shotgun and still taken many lives, if he was not approached and given the time to waltz about the place.
If we have lots of laws already and they are NOT enforced; a dozen more will not solve the problem.
More information has already surfaced and more had better be on the way.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted February 26, 2018 03:58 PM |
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Kind of makes me think about cellphones.
I don't know about the US, but in my country cellphones first arrived on consumer level around the mid 90's, meaning perhaps one in hundred children would have one.
Back then I didn't want one, because I was afraid the other kids would simply take it from me, but I was also very much afraid of getting locked into a room by accident and forgotten.. how silly that may sound now, and having a cellphone would actually make me feel safe in that I could always call for help.
Anyway I recently read the worry from parents is not that the children will get distracted or become anti-social with their mini PC's, in stead they worry that their children will call their parents, which in my opinion was the only reason to give a phone to a child in the first place..
I am not going to participate in the debate on whether or not gun is a problem, but I wish to point out there are multiple problems with schools, and the american school shootings are in my opinion a symptom due to several issues.
Problems such as schools partly existing as a daycare as much as a place to be taught.
Rigid schooling system that drops a lot of children, adapt or lose, never can the system be tailored to the needs of the individual, doesn't matter you know what you want and what interests you.
No attempts at making children understand the possibilities the educational system actually allows for them, first when they are adults they realize the school could have enhanced their own search for knowledge, but in stead the children either fought the system or had to be stressed with rigid teachers, rigid hours and a rigid system filled with test after test resulting in a superficial overview and little immersion in interesting details.
Finally there is the topic of bullying which results from much of the above, but also from the life the children already live, and perhaps simply because it is possible.
I think if the school and the parents manages a good life for their children, then the school can be a supplement to their life and allow them to grow as people, not hold them back and drive some of them to things like this.
On the other hand, it would probably not be possible to do this for everyone, and in the end the larger the population and the more guns the more likely events like these are to happen no matter what you do.
In other countries with less guns we would perhaps have children with knives in stead, less casualties and higher possibility of saving the life of said child, but the issues that gives rise to these problems are the same in my opinion, and that there would be no gun shooting doesn't mean there aren't children who suffer, only that it is easier to ignore these issues.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 26, 2018 04:08 PM |
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@Markkur
Donald Trump has said he will consider a proposal to arm school teachers in an attempt to prevent mass shootings, a move certain to prove fiercely divisive...
Referring to Aaron Feis, a football coach who used his body as a shield to protect a student during the massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school in Parkland, the president continued: “If the coach had a firearm in his locker when he ran at this guy – that coach was very brave, saved a lot of lives, I suspect.
Sounds pretty clear to me.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 26, 2018 07:09 PM |
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Well, he is right on that one, the hero who gave his life to save students would certainly have retaliated if he was armed. When police fails to their jobs, you have to consider other perspectives. Here the police failed a dozens of times, first by ignoring all pre-reports about the shooter intentions, then by hiring a coward to protect the school.
Now, considering a proposal doesn't mean it will be stone law, is just examining a LOT of proposals, among which there is also confiscating all guns. Leftist medias again making quick assumptions because they hate Trump.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 26, 2018 08:31 PM |
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Even if you could guarantee that specific incident would have gone different in such a case (and you cant since he would have not been equipped all the time), that is no justification to have schools with armed teachers. If the police is inefficient, you solve that problem by improving them. You dont certainly deal with a social problem that keeps escalating because of too many guns in the first place by arming even school teachers. And btw, if turning schools into military stations is the only solution a society can come up with, that society already lost that cause to begin with: 15 year-olds constantly mass killing their fellow students is not just "a security problem." It's FUBAR.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 26, 2018 08:49 PM |
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I absolutely agree that arming teachers sounds scary. But you could also imagine in such unique universe as USA, having some teachers passing tests and being part of the security system, why not. What else you propose which could be more effective while not restricting in any way the sacrality of schools? I listen.
Trump is reasoning here with common sense. What we have as specific parameters in this mass shooting? On one side, we have a brave teacher who gave his life to protect his students. On the other side, you have multiple failures on security level, while the only deputy which was armed and supposed to protect the campus chickened. 3 further deputies arrived and chickened as well.
Also about your last part, is already done. At my workplace, we have two armed soldiers guarding the entrance then my bags are constantly inspected, every day. All borders up to Isis locations are open, so you like it or no, our societies are already in war with external or internal forces.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted February 26, 2018 09:33 PM |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixS9QoPs35M
Watch from 40:30 to 45:50 for his comments about the shooting.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 26, 2018 10:56 PM |
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Sal said:
Trump is reasoning here with common sense. What we have as specific parameters in this mass shooting? On one side, we have a brave teacher who gave his life to protect his students. On the other side, you have multiple failures on security level, while the only deputy which was armed and supposed to protect the campus chickened. 3 further deputies arrived and chickened as well.
I'm puzzled about how you call that common sense?! If four deputies on total chickened out, doesnt it actually tell you that the teacher's case is an anomaly and what he did was overwhelmnigly rare and exceptionally heroic? Doesnt that also mean it is not something you can apply as a general policy. I once read about a man who jumped on railroad tracks in the subway, right after someone fell. He pressed the guy in panic and himself down to the ground, the train passed over them. Now, would you put guards in subway stations whose duty is to jump on the tracks and save people who fall?
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 26, 2018 11:09 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 23:45, 26 Feb 2018.
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i think it's funny how a sheriff in florida is supposedly setting up a program to arm and train teachers. because god knows, the cops there failed to do a goddamn thing...
but it makes me wonder. FOUR cops NOT going to the aid of students? not just one, but four? that kind of raises a red flag. then there's the videos of the students not crying about their slain classmates(but instead, of all things, focusing clearly and concisely on GUN CONTROL), the one video where a student there reported that she had seen and talked to the supposed shooter, even while gun shots were going off elsewhere during the attack(meaning, according to her testimony, that there was more than one shooter); and supposedly, one of the students interviewing classmates on what they thought of gun control DURING the attack...
the rest might be internet trolling(or not), but FOUR cops NOT going to the student's aid? i'm having a hard time believing that, now that i think about it. at least ONE would have said, "snow it, i'm going"... i mean, wouldn't you think? i may reverse my previous assumptions on those cops.
something's not sitting right, with me. 1 or 2 cops, maybe. not four. not WHILE it was happening. maybe they were told to stand down, like what happened for some of the black riots? i mean, it CAN'T be protocol, to wait for swat, if you have an armed cop AT the school(let alone, FOUR). really, why ELSE would a cop be stationed at a school in the first place? and what would prevent the other 3 from doing something about it? they've got vests and shotguns in the trunks of their cruisers. you throw the vest on, grab the shotgun, and save kids' lives. what's stopping them from doing their jobs? are you really telling me that, after all these years with mass attacks, they haven't adequately TRAINED for this sort of thing?
i'm having trouble believing that 4 cops sat on their asses; now that i think about it.
and what's more, is that all 4 of these cops were supposedly helping evacuate the school. wouldn't that be the teachers'/school staff's job? either all 4 of these cops were cowards(which i find unlikely), or they were completely untrained for such a situation. and THAT'S unlikely, because if the school had been having mass-attack evacuation drills to prepare for such an event, it only makes sense that the cops would know THEIR role(and would have been adequately trained) in such an event.
which all leads me to think one thing: that uniformed cops will not/aren't told to, risk their lives in such an event, because the lives of some school kids aren't worth the possibility of a cop losing their life, because of what ELSE they do:
which is pull people over for traffic citations and not do any real anti-criminal police work. 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 26, 2018 11:14 PM |
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artu said:
I'm puzzled about how you call that common sense?!
Because I set my opinion after comparing, and what I hear from his speech looks the most realistic and sensed from all that I heard, including the CNN masquerade where a spoiled brat called Rubio a murderer.
Personally I have no solution in mind, imo it is way too late, hundreds of millions of weapons out there, they are part of culture, also a constitutional right, so just bare with the hope it is not your kid that day. So what you propose then?
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 26, 2018 11:20 PM |
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Salamandre said:
So what you propose then?
i'd like to see this, as well.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 27, 2018 12:08 AM |
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1- Make it really really hard to get semi-automatics and military grade weapons for regular people. Also have efficient background checks and psychological evaluation before possessing any kind of weapon.
2- Regulate the advertising and promotion of guns the way they did with cigarettes. Spread more awareness and properly educate the public about gun culture.
3 - Regulate the relationship between weapon industry and politics (legislation) so that gun lobbies wont buy their way out of policy changes.
4- Try to create more awareness of the difference between the constitutional right to bear arms and the present gun culture to prevent people from defending them as if they are one and the same, provide statistics and info from pre-1960's where the same rights were there but same culture wasn't. Things can reshape just like crime rates sometimes drop, polluted cities sometimes go cleaner, conditions improve. There is no turning back is just unrealistic pessimism.
Of course, there would be a transition period and things wouldnt start to run smooth in a heartbeat. And there would always be a minimum level of gun violence just like any place else, even more than anyplace else considering it is the U.S. But in the end, the situation would be much better and it's by any means better than arming school teachers.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 12:41 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 00:44, 27 Feb 2018.
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artu said:
1- Make it really really hard to get semi-automatics and military grade weapons for regular people. Also have efficient background checks and psychological evaluation before possessing any kind of weapon.
2- Regulate the advertising and promotion of guns the way they did with cigarettes. Spread more awareness and properly educate the public about gun culture.
3 - Regulate the relationship between weapon industry and politics (legislation) so that gun lobbies wont buy their way out of policy changes.
4- Try to create more awareness of the difference between the constitutional right to bear arms and the present gun culture to prevent people from defending them as if they are one and the same, provide statistics and info from pre-1960's where the same rights were there but same culture wasn't. Things can reshape just like crime rates sometimes drop, polluted cities sometimes go cleaner, conditions improve. There is no turning back is just unrealistic pessimism.
Of course, there would be a transition period and things wouldnt start to run smooth in a heartbeat. And there would always be a minimum level of gun violence just like any place else, even more than anyplace else considering it is the U.S. But in the end, the situation would be much better and it's by any means better than arming school teachers.
1. define military grade. if you mean actual military weapons, typical gun owners don't have those. you'd be referring to someone with a class 3 weapons license; which are monitored by the fbi and atf(and, military-grade weapons are usually $2,000 and up; not to mention, the 1-time $200 tax on every single class 3 item). you can't remove the semi-automatics already in circulation, either. i've already explained the various reasons why. they have background checks already. as for the psychological evaluation, anyone can fool those dumbasses. the kid in the florida shooting did. so your number 1 fails.
2. the pro-gun public already ARE properly aware; it is the anti-gun people who have their heads up their asses, regarding gun culture. people who responsibly teach their children gun ownership and use, AREN'T THE ONES DOING THE ATTACKS. so your number 2 fails, as well.
3. weapon industry and gun lobbies represent gun owners, as well as the constitution. the only policy changes you see, are of anti-gun people, who are also anti-constitution, and as far as i can see, anti-common sense when it comes to gun culture, and even the nature of these attacks. so your 3 fails too.
4. the world is ever-changing, and ever growing. i've already explained why and how this affects everything in our culture(and in turn, across the world) and the safety of it's inhabitants, and you refuse to see it. you think you can stop people who want to kill, simply be attempting to remove guns from their hands(no matter if they are legal or not). that's NOT going to solve the fact that they want to kill people, or even their means to do it. so 4 is a failure, too.
your "not wanting to arm school teachers" stance only shows that you don't understand the gravity of the situation. arming school teachers is obviously a highly escalated effort to attempt to control a problem that is getting out of hand. that NONE of your points will change, whatsoever.
any more plan points you want to add?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 27, 2018 07:35 AM |
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Edited by artu at 07:42, 27 Feb 2018.
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1- It doesnt fail, if you properly execute it, you guys obviously don't. This is not just about what's on paper but also about the social fabric, so it takes some time to transform, but not ages.
2- If you are an example of the pro-gun people, I can see how overwhelmingly false that is. You label scientific research as propaganda, you are polarized to your bones about the subject and your emotional attachment to gun culture is at such a peak you already confessed to dreaming of witnessing a mass shooting so that you can pull out one and save the day. You know how cops talk about civillians trying to be heroes usually ends up in catastrophe, guess who they refer to.
3- No. Weapon industry people are about profit like any industry's people and they will interpret the Constitution accordingly and they will do anything to sell more. They already do.
4- And I already explained that the U.S. is not unique about how the world changes and how populated it is, neither it is "destined to gun culture" looking at its recent history.
I wont have to seriously debate why arming school teachers is plain insanity to anyone who thinks rational about the subject, you simply dont because #2. Read regular Americans who dont label themselves as pro-gun or anti-gun and try to knock some sense into your head.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 08:31 AM |
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Don't you think that the chance of a school shooting would rise astronomically if you'd arm teachers?
I mean, if you think of what a teacher gets paid in the US and what they have to put up with in their schools, well, I suppose, it's fair to say that it wouldn't take long until the first teacher would pull their semi and put an end to the disgrace sprawling before them.
Imagine that, if that scene played in a movie, you'd LOVE it: class has collective attention defect. Desperate teacher pulls piece, fires a shot, puts it on the table. Has now attention of class. Then, into the resulting quiet: some black guy who everyone knows supplies the other kids with dope and lives in a tough neighborhood, calmly pulls his own, putting it on the table as well, commenting, "mine is bigga dan yours, b!tch", a couple of others following suit, the snickering of the class rising to a thundering crescendo.
Next day - meltdown. Teacher brings semi and teaches those unteachables a lesson.
Curtains.
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