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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 27, 2018 08:11 PM |
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umm, I didn't affirm there are 30 millions, I made a joke about sending ~30 millions of illegals back to Mexico and build the wall (note the ~ which means more or less, ask artu about definition of "a lot" for example and I am forgiven) to which you answered there are 11 millions, as 10 years ago. Which is false, I showed why, but you continue to support it. But ok, is off-top so I'm back to Arrow show.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 10:32 PM |
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Great joke. Will be lots of laughs.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 27, 2018 10:46 PM |
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Well, I was in joking mode because one post before, you just claimed building walls is useless because people will dig tunnels, use boats or pay guards. I mean, why do we still have laws governing our nations, if liberals always show the way to fraud? Let's just pull down our pants and wait for it.
You gave the tone for gullible mode, not me. Glad to see I entertained you at least half of how much I was after reading your post.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 10:50 PM |
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The interesting thing is, although you are an immigrant yourself you do prentend to not understand what motivates people to illegally immigrate. And the same reason that makes war against drugs and vices useless, the same reason makes walls useless.
Unless you don't understand that the joke is entirely on you.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 27, 2018 11:13 PM |
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Oh, you got me wrong. I very understand what makes people immigrate illegally, but unlike you I believe that everyone should have a responsibility standard thus think twice before cheating; once the honor is gone, there is nothing left other than selfish considerations, as you unfolded your inability to follow the rules. Rules which were put in place exactly for protecting your alike.
There are so many ways to get what we want by actually earning them that when I see someone tricking then find measly and poor excuses for such actions, I have no compassion or respect for such individual.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2018 11:20 PM |
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I agree with you - on equal chances. And that's all there is to say. There is no reason to participate in a game of rolling the dice when you can't roll more than a one, while everyone else starts with a three. And since I have to explain that to you, no, you don't understand what makes people ILLEGALLY immigrate.
People are just giving their all for a better future - especially when they don't have one otherwise.
See it this way: you didn't make the rules - why adhere to them?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 27, 2018 11:49 PM |
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You have a very low-down perspective on immigrants, if you think they should cheat because there is no other way. This is why I dislike so much the so called progressives, they always think poor people are not only poor materially, but also unable to overcome the challenges, by being creative, disciplined and smart, unless you give them more than a hand, by allowing them to fraud then even find the adequate excuse - "they had no choice". What you know?
Shifting the discussion to paint me as lacking knowledge about what makes people leave their roots is weird, we are not talking here what immigration means, but what makes us better: inspire trust and not mistrust by our actions. Cheating is not a such way, no matter the excuses you will find.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 28, 2018 01:12 AM |
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Edited by artu at 01:16, 28 Feb 2018.
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I'm not suggesting cheating is some kind of Robin Hood act but let's not exaggerate the flexibilty and bandwith of social mobility, especially in less developed countries. Extreme majority of people are stuck with the class they are born into and immigration is their only way of "getting creative" if you know what I mean. And America isnt exactly unwelcoming in this regard, brother of a friend of mine went in as an illegal and started working in a gas station there for instance. (He was a university graduate but he preferred to pump up gas there, because...) In a few years, he had a social security number, he had a working permit, he was paying taxes... He was still not a citizen and an illegal immigrant on paper though, if somebody had a beef with him and reported him, he could be deported. It's been years since I heard from him but I guess, in the end, he did become a citizen. It's kind of how the process works, they first check you out, if you can manage to endure long enough, you finally take the exam and become a citizen. Of course, it would be different if you are some talented artist or rocket scientist but those are the exceptions, not the rule.
P.S. And how did you manage to turn yet another thread into an immigration one, damn you, Sal!
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 28, 2018 09:51 AM |
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yeah we always have a tearful story where the illegal alien is honest like nobody, he had no choice you know, then a few years later he had a permit and started to pay taxes (you ignore specifying how he and his family were a burden on the tax payer all those years), then integrated and now he is a valuable citizen and we are so proud of him, kumbaya.
Except that, well, there are millions coming each year, and someone has to pay until they are able to sustain themselves: for health care, for school, for food stamps, and it is always the people who follow the rules who must do that. Try to declare one week later your taxes, you will wake up a terrible war machine which will crush and humiliate you. And what the tax payer gets in return? Watch CNN and see those mongoloid aliens spitting on America, yelling how racist is and how it oppressed them and how it OWES them amnesty. Watch those Daca individuals, promising that once amnestied they will bring all their family because now they have the right too. And here is, the vicious circle, and same people who, once again, have to support this nonsense and this cheating and unhealthy attitude. You want the only answer to why people immigrate "illegally"? Welfare and naive people like you.
And don't even come to me with "studies" showing illegal immigration produces wealth, it is the biggest lie of our century, it is done in the same dishonest and selective pattern as their census. It drives our societies into poverty, look only at states with the highest (illegal) immigration level, like California.
And I didn't bring immigration, you guys, as usual, started to bash Trump because of weapons then the wall came into discussions and so on. But I told my point, I am done.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 28, 2018 10:22 AM |
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Edited by artu at 10:22, 28 Feb 2018.
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1- It is not a tearful story but a regular one. It's how things have always worked in the U.S. And despite your blatantly xenophobic generalizations, most immigrants are quite adaptive and even grateful for the better conditions. You seem to forget that in the U.S., half the people (figure of speech) working in CNN are also immigrants or kids of them. If some of them complain about racism, it is such borderline hateful attitude such as yours that causes the complaint.
2- We didn't start bashing Trump, Kip brought him up, I shared some info regarding his statements about mass shootings, then you started to defend him uncoditionally as usual because even if you claim you are disappointed, he is your anti-immigration hero after all, and at this point, it is easy to see you are obssessed with immigration in a very unhealthy manner. Hence, it was once again you who shifted the subject not from shootings to Trump but from Trump to immigration.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 28, 2018 12:28 PM |
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Sal, I won't let you get away with this, yet again, because what you did here is yet again pulling the discussion on some moral ground of whether a state has the right or not to do something against people illegally entering their country.
No one explicitely brought up a point like that.
What I said is, that Trump touting the idea of walling up a 2.000 mile border in order to stop illegal immigration should have discredited him in the eyes of everyone with more than one brain cell, whether he meant it at the time or not, because the idea is utterly moronic as such, not to mention extremely expensive, AND will not stop illegal immigration, obviously.
THAT was the point made. Nothing else. It doesn't mean I would object against any form of guarding a border to keep illegals out - otherwise you could just as well get rid of the whole border stuff (which IS worth a discussion, but not with a view on the issue of illegal immigration).
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 28, 2018 12:43 PM |
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/still horribly off-topic:
instead of a wall, what about a moat with crocodiles? or a mine field? or a 2,000 mile line of pikemen? i'd be down for those. 
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 28, 2018 12:58 PM |
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That would at least boost the economy, in a year or so, you'd have a black market of croc leather boots and bags. 
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 28, 2018 01:04 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 13:05, 28 Feb 2018.
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/still ridiculously off-topic:
what if we had a crocodile moat bordered by pikemen on the high end, with a minefield behind them?
or, OR, we could mix archers among the pikemen! that'd way the crocs would be saved! 
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 28, 2018 01:18 PM |
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Quote:
because the idea is utterly moronic as such, not to mention extremely expensive, AND will not stop illegal immigration, obviously.
Not directly related but we built such a wall (a fence actually) along the border with Turkey to stop the illegal immigrants from the Middle East and now our prime minister claims that we're the safestest country in the galaxy (or at the very least, in the solar system). Part of the money for that came from the EU funds. Of course illegals are still coming in just fine but it seems funny that Trump is criticized for the same bull**** which is being done in the European backward quite officially. Likewise, the uproar about that thing was... well, it's not even in the news (apart from a few shy articles when it was first announced). Trump might be the worst presidential material in the world but if you take out the hypocrisy, you don't get any geniuses on our side of the Big Water either.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 28, 2018 01:43 PM |
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No offense, but the Bulgarian thing is a FENCE with basically the exact length of the Berlin Wall - not a 2.000 miles long Wall (which would have to be a lot longer in practise, since it couldn't follow the border line in some places).
The issue of "border protection" is basically a question of how many PEOPLE you are tasking with it.
To give you a clue: The NVA of the ex GDR had 11.500 soldiers tasked with guarding THE Wall (which was 105 miles long) who would patrol in shifts, having no less than 2.300 soldiers on active duty at any second on any normal day (still not being able to stop people fleeing, mind you).
The US Border Patrol has 21.000 people patroling the North and the South Border (all in all), so they cover roughly 2.000 miles in the South and 4.000 in the North, EXCLUDING the Canada-Alaska Border.
Even if you say that the 4.000 miles of Canadian border can be neglected (which it can't obviously, for a couple of reasons), that number of 21.000 people is obviously a mismatch.
Instead of trying to wall up, they could just hire more people for their border patrols. Considering that more people need more equipment ... say 1 patrol would cost 100.000 $ a year. Then 10.000 additional border patrol people would cost 1 billion bucks of fed money per year (with as many people getting a job).
Don't you think this would have been a much more SENSIBLE promise and practical thing to do than suggesting to wall up the countryside?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 28, 2018 01:52 PM |
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I think "the idea" of a wall was a strong symbolism, much more concrete for his voter base than some statistics and budget math. In other words, it was election bait. Think of it like burning heretics on the town square, wouldn't it be easier just to slit their throats. People respond faster to things they can visualize. Once the election was over, so was the theatrics.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted February 28, 2018 01:53 PM |
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fred79 said:
/still ridiculously off-topic:
what if we had a crocodile moat bordered by pikemen on the high end, with a minefield behind them?
or, OR, we could mix archers among the pikemen! that'd way the crocs would be saved!
I have an even better idea! Allow any fire-arm bearing dude or dudette in America to legally shoot illegal aliens across the border. Those who make it across the border are granted permit to stay and all. Put some camera's on it and make it a national television show, where people can vote on how far those illegal immigrants get before being shot down.
It should stop illegal immigration as well as release volatile agressive feelings of gun owners. Two flies with one stone!
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 28, 2018 02:03 PM |
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Man, you must be really skilled with the stone, I have a hard time even with birds. 
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 28, 2018 02:14 PM |
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artu said:
I think "the idea" of a wall was a strong symbolism, much more concrete for his voter base than some statistics and budget math. In other words, it was election bait. Think of it like burning heretics on the town square, wouldn't it be easier just to slit their throats. People respond faster to things they can visualize. Once the election was over, so was the theatrics.
If I remember right, that was what some people were assuming then - but when asked about it, it always was, no, a REAL wall, and the cost were estimated at something like 30 billion bucks or some such.
As I said - IT DOESN'T MATTER. Whether it was an election promise NOT meant to be held afterwards or meant seriously at the time, it's the kind of election promise that should get you booed from the stage, because it's either moronic or take people for idiots.
What saddens me to say, however, is that taking people for idiots is a realistic way to success, it seems, because too many people obviously WANT to be fooled.
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This thread is pages long: 
