Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: mass shootings in the u.s.
Thread: mass shootings in the u.s. This thread is 42 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 ... 38 39 40 41 42 · «PREV / NEXT»
fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 21, 2018 03:18 AM
Edited by fred79 at 05:08, 21 Mar 2018.

Minion said:
If the freds of Maryland had gotten their way and everyone were carrying AK-15:s then we could be looking at 20 dead children again. I care for the people, you care for the guns. That is the difference.


"ak-15's", lol. "fred's" of maryland. you, minion, are a prime example of everything that is wrong with the anti-gun argument. i already knew, that as soon as i saw your name in this thread replying to that post, that it wasn't going to be worth reading. case in point: your ridiculously incorrect and inflammatory response. if you(like nearly all people on the anti-gun spectrum) knew half as much as you think you do regarding this issue(AND guns, AND pro-gun people, OR anything regarding basic survival skills), you'd be on the "freds'" side.

and furthermore, just like most people on the anti-gun agenda, you'll use whatever you can to attack pro-gun people, AND guns. what you responded to, where you figure it could have been worse, was a good thing, minion: a shooter was stopped BECAUSE a guy with A GUN stopped him. and yet, you felt the need to take a poke at pro-gun people, over a "what if". you, just like most people on the anti-gun agenda, CLAIM to care for people, and yet, you just displayed entirely the opposite. you apparently couldn't give half a snow about the people who survived BECAUSE of guns. you're only quick to try and point out "it could have been worse", because of your obvious fear of guns. you know, it's quite detestable, how people who fear guns, will use these attacks(and dead people) to try and stop anyone from having firearms, or tighten laws to restrict them; all while self-righteously CLAIMING that they actually CARE for people. what you guys REALLY care about, are yourselves. it is you and your fear, that stops you from seeing that in order to stop someone with a gun from shooting a lot of people whenever they feel like it, is someone ELSE with a gun willing to stop them.

this has been proven worldwide, and throughout the centuries. this is as logical as logic can get, and because of your irrational fear over an INANIMATE OBJECT, you strive to get them removed or restricted from law-abiding citizens. your fear is no different than being afraid of swords, or spears, or bows and arrows, throughout the centuries of evolving weapons technology. and YET, those things still existed(even IF they were restricted), and they WERE used. used to create and/or destroy ENTIRE CIVILIZATIONS. if you are going to fear a weapon, then at least have the sense to understand that in order to defend yourself against a weapon, you must have a weapon of equal or greater strength. fFs.

the laws you ridiculously have faith in, are no more than ideas(and as you can see worldwide, IDEAS can be tossed aside. IDEAS won't protect you). a gun, on the other hand, is a REAL THING. you can hold it in your hand, and you can use it. AND, so can ANYONE ELSE. AGAINST YOU(completely despite laws), if they want to. do you know how you, personally, can defend yourself against that? simple: you have a gun in YOUR HAND, and be willing to use it to SAVE YOUR LIFE.

HOW on god's green earth is this NOT obvious to you? guns, swords, bows and arrows; it doesn't matter what weapon is out there. THEY WILL EXIST. and THEY WILL BE A THREAT. the only way to COUNTER THAT THREAT, is with YOUR OWN WEAPON.

and if you don't HAVE a weapon, when faced with one? well, you better be prepared to die. because THAT'S reality. THAT'S what can, and will, happen. DESPITE ANY LAWS TO THE CONTRARY.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted March 21, 2018 09:19 AM
Edited by Minion at 09:22, 21 Mar 2018.

No fred, you are simply out of arguments. I went to the military, and I can tell you I would have not if I actually feared guns. In fact it is you who has been pointing out that you indeed are afraid to even go out without a gun, because you need it to protect yourself from all the bad people and whatnot. You are clearly projecting your own fear to others here.

And yes an officer stopped him, thank god for that. But dear gun lover, people from Sheriffs Department are supposed to have guns. They have training, and it is their literal job. What are you going on about. "See if police didn't have guns, they couldn't stop crime!" Are you serious now?

Maryland is an example of having good gun control laws, and I bet it royally pisses you off that they work.
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted March 21, 2018 10:02 AM

Maryland VS Florida shootings boils down to just one thing:

one there was a sissy demoncrat sherriff deputy who let kids die because of his cowardice, despite the facts that the shooter had been tipped off to the FBI which would rather circle-jerk around the bogus Trump Russian collusion bullcrap, instead of detaining an actual domestic terrorist, and preventing the shooting altogether in the firt place.
and the other is a man, a security guard actually doing his bloody job he's supposed to do!

It's not about the fully automatic semi assault rifles with high capacity assault clips. It never is.
I can easily assault you with my set of keys, and probably murder you with it too. So, ban all the keys?

Also, Chicago - strict gun control, most murders per capita in the USA. the bleep is that about? but iF wE bAn GuNs AlL ThE CrImE WoUlD CeAsE, amirite?


____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted March 21, 2018 10:12 AM

Minion does make a valid point, though, something fred actually agreed upon a while back in this thread: there's an alarming amount of paranoia seeping through American society at large, where there's a real fear that any random lunatic out and about could potentially have it in for you, toting guns and all.

The only way to get a grip on these mass shootings and get rid of gun related murders (not to mention deaths through accidents after mishandling guns) is to first get rid of the mistrust that exists these days.
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 21, 2018 10:38 AM
Edited by fred79 at 10:42, 21 Mar 2018.

@ minion:

out of arguments? i guess so, since not one single point that i've made has sunk in with you, and i'm constantly reiterating the same base-logic points, to a deaf ear.

i never said i was afraid without a gun; just that i felt unprepared for what might come. and rightfully so.

so, help me understand something, minion. if you're NOT afraid of guns, then WHY do you think people shouldn't be able to use them to protect themselves and their families with them, from criminals and other undesirables WITH guns? what is your reasoning behind your stance? because you haven't(nor any other anti-gun individual, either) elaborated on just HOW you plan to remove/restrict guns from criminals...   just law-abiding citizens.

you lost me on the second paragraph. i guess you conveniently forgot the florida shooting that just happened, where FOUR cops failed to stop ONE shooter, because they were armed and DIDN'T act.

as for your last bit, wtf?!, lol:

Quote:
Maryland is an example of having good gun control laws, and I bet it royally pisses you off that they work.


ok, first off, why itf would i be pissed if something worked to stop a shooter? secondly(and this is glaringly obvious): IT WASN'T THE GUN LAWS THAT STOPPED THE SHOOTER. IT WAS A GUY WITH A GODDAMN GUN THAT STOPPED HIM. you see, THIS is why i can't have conversations with anti-gun people on this. because you guys fail to comprehend on so many levels, and more than that, fail at ASSIMILATING WORDS; simply because they don't fit your AGENDAS.

do you UNDERSTAND how difficult it is for me, to take ANY of you seriously, when most of you aren't even TRYING to see my purely logical point(s)? when most of you aren't even TRYING to read what's posted? when most of you aren't even TRYING to see how plain and simple this is to figure out? when most of you aren't even TRYING to understand the glaring dissimilarities between access, culture, and what we have at not only our borders, but within our country; as opposed to the rest of the world? not to mention, the corrupt government agencies like the atf and the drug gangs that HELP FACILITATE ALL THE ILLEGAL ARMS?

like i said in my last post, weapons are always going to be around. take this into account, if nothing else: our country has had a war on drugs for how long, now(since president nixon in the 70's)? and have they gained an INCH on stopping illegally-procured goods for people who want them? snow NO. the streets are JAM-PACKED with illegal drugs.

so WHAT TF MAKES YOU THINK THAT EVEN TRYING TO STOP OR SLOW GUN SUPPLY DOWN(through law or whatever), WILL ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING AT ALL IN OUR COUNTRY, being that if people WANT it, and it's ILLEGAL, they can STILL GET IT?

i mean, ffs. wake up, already. the u.s. IS NOT europe, or even the rest of the world. what flies everywhere else, CANNOT fly here. it's not a question of WILL NOT; it's CANNOT.

literally the ONLY similarity between the u.s. and the rest of the world, regarding armed attacks, is that ARMED GUNMEN TRYING TO MOW PEOPLE DOWN WILL BE MOST SUCCESSFUL WHERE GUNS AREN'T ALLOWED.

and that last attack, proves just that. that gunman wasn't very successful, even though he was in a gun-free zone, was he? because someone with a gun ACTUALLY DID THEIR JOB AND STOPPED HIM. and, that gun free zone DIDN'T STOP HIM FROM ATTACKING IN THE FIRST PLACE. wow! snowing amazing how that works, right?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted March 21, 2018 10:51 AM

You can't get rid of something which fuels itself. There's probably the same amount of psychos per capita who may go on a killing spree if they wake up in a specific mood, have a bad day, week, year, life, get messages from Ctulhu that they should perform a sacrifice or whatever but for some reason only in the US the answer is "arm everybody and everybody will be safe", despite the counter-arguments. People elsewhere in the world have much ****ier lives than the regular US trigger-happy snowflake, yet you hear about school mass shootings, cinema shootings, mall shootings and so on from... the US. I certainly agree that this is a symptom, not a root cause, however this symptom is successfully addressed in other countries which are not arming themselves en masse.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 21, 2018 10:54 AM

Maurice said:
The only way to get a grip on these mass shootings and get rid of gun related murders (not to mention deaths through accidents after mishandling guns) is to first get rid of the mistrust that exists these days.


that mistrust will always be present; there's no way to avoid it, realistically. people are too divided in the u.s., on just about any subject you can think of. there are too many mixed cultures; too much paranoia pushed by the media, too much drugs in our water supply, too much hormones in our food. our culture, and what we intake, create a toxic environment that nothing short of complete disaster will fix. and probably not even then.

it's only in kindergarten here, that you're taught to share. after that, you're taught that whoever has the most toys wins(along with which side to be a part of, on everything). it's a competition for STUFF, STATUS, and CASH. capitalism rules our country; and everything contained in it, is designed to exploit that fact.

we are more seperated now as a people, in this day and age, than we ever were during our civil war. and everything in our country is designed to keep us that way.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted March 21, 2018 10:56 AM

Quote:
name=fred79

so, help me understand something, minion. if you're NOT afraid of guns, then WHY do you think people shouldn't be able to use them to protect themselves and their families with them, from criminals and other undesirables WITH guns?


Yeah I have never said anything remotely like this. I think I have said what I have to say about this topic for now. I am sure you can fight against this straw-man by yourself
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 21, 2018 11:00 AM

Zenofex said:
You can't get rid of something which fuels itself. There's probably the same amount of psychos per capita who may go on a killing spree if they wake up in a specific mood, have a bad day, week, year, life, get messages from Ctulhu that they should perform a sacrifice or whatever but for some reason only in the US the answer is "arm everybody and everybody will be safe", despite the counter-arguments. People elsewhere in the world have much ****ier lives than the regular US trigger-happy snowflake, yet you hear about school mass shootings, cinema shootings, mall shootings and so on from... the US. I certainly agree that this is a symptom, not a root cause, however this symptom is successfully addressed in other countries which are not arming themselves en masse.


and i've already stated and restated: our guns aren't going anywhere. the government can try and make them completely illegal, and they'll face a civil war. and even if there WASN'T a civil war, people could STILL BUY GUNS from the same people they guy their illegal drugs from. because the illegal gun market would EXPLODE.

how are you guys NOT getting something i've pointed out a bazillion times?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 21, 2018 11:07 AM

@ minion:

"straw man", sure; whatever you say. happy trails, pardner. there's no point in arguing with someone who doesn't bother actually LISTENING to the other. especially when I'LL ALWAYS know more about this subject than you EVER will. if you never take nothing else in this entire thread away with you, take THAT rock-solid truth to the bank.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted March 21, 2018 11:15 AM

That is so ironic coming from you I can't even
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 21, 2018 11:17 AM

isn't it, tho?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted March 21, 2018 12:44 PM

Quote:
and i've already stated and restated: our guns aren't going anywhere. the government can try and make them completely illegal, and they'll face a civil war.
Which the government will win easily if it comes to that, unless you believe that a bunch of rednecks with revolvers and shotguns can actually do something against a tank. But nobody's talking about making guns completely illegal. Your answer to "guns are already here" is "bring more of them and give them to everybody" and that's where the conversation breaks.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted March 21, 2018 12:51 PM

So, basically what you're saying is that American society is broke on a psychological level, bankrupt if it were. A bit like the Western Roman Empire around 475. For the non-historians, that was a few years before its inevitable collapse and disintegration.

Quite frankly, sometimes I wonder what would happen if the USA ceased to exist as a whole and each state (or perhaps a few states together) would be truly on their own, without overarching central government.
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 21, 2018 01:08 PM

Zenofex said:
Which the government will win easily if it comes to that, unless you believe that a bunch of rednecks with revolvers and shotguns can actually do something against a tank. But nobody's talking about making guns completely illegal. Your answer to "guns are already here" is "bring more of them and give them to everybody" and that's where the conversation breaks.


i never said we needed MORE guns. we already have more than enough for everyone in the u.s.  so there's no broken conversation whatsoever, just that all the anti-gun people aren't even bothering to read what i write, or just continually and conveniently forgetting what i already covered. which was literally everything regarding this subject.

and, i've already said that the government could never risk a civil war. i'm just trying to show you guys how ridiculous your arguments are. every point i'm still refuting with you guys, i've ALREADY refuted, and more than once.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 21, 2018 01:15 PM

/off-topic:

Maurice said:
So, basically what you're saying is that American society is broke on a psychological level, bankrupt if it were. A bit like the Western Roman Empire around 475. For the non-historians, that was a few years before its inevitable collapse and disintegration.

Quite frankly, sometimes I wonder what would happen if the USA ceased to exist as a whole and each state (or perhaps a few states together) would be truly on their own, without overarching central government.


yes, pretty much.

if the usa ceased to exist, everyone would just move in to fill the gap left, and fight over what resources they could use. just like when any other country ceases to exist that sits on prime real estate and/or usable resources.

and every country would have to fight for itself after that. all of the support and fear we've spread, that kept many countries in line, would disappear. which most likely would mean, world war. because the biggest bullies would be gone. it'd likely be a free-for-all.

and then countries would wish the u.s. were back. just like the iraqis wished saddam was back in power, once he was removed. because they'd rather have one power-hungry tyrant running things, than legions of them roving the countryside.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted March 21, 2018 01:53 PM

Quote:
i never said we needed MORE guns. we already have more than enough for everyone in the u.s.  so there's no broken conversation whatsoever, just that all the anti-gun people aren't even bothering to read what i write, or just continually and conveniently forgetting what i already covered. which was literally everything regarding this subject.
Dropping the stupid "pro-gun" and "anti-gun" labels will actually help you a lot to dig what people are telling you, you're not arguing with me, or Maurice, Minion, artu, etc., you're arguing with an image in your head. Which is fine, but please do it in private.
"More guns" doesn't mean that you don't have enough already but that you and others like you suggest that people aren't armed enough to face the danger which could be stalking behind every corner. With an Uzi or whatever lead-spitting thing it could get its hands on. So - arm the teachers, arm the shopkeepers, arm the janitors, arm everybody so they can shoot back at the danger and kill it before it kills them. So if "guns are already here" means "we've already ****ed up, reality has changed", you suggest to give them to even more people, essentially "let's **** up even more", except that, for some reason, you think that things will get better that way. Perhaps it has something to do with the "good guys vs. bad guys" culture, not sure if you even realize that your today's hero could easily become your tomorrow's villain.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 21, 2018 02:06 PM

zeno, that entire post is just drivel, man.

firstly, whenever i'm arguing against a bunch of people who aren't stating the same thing i am, they fall into a group for convenience. more or less, mind you, but it's easier to slap 'em all together based on their general stance on this issue. which summed up, is "guns are the devil, and/or americans shouldn't have guns". this covers everything from "we need tougher gun laws" to "nobody needs anything as brutish and ugly, as murderous, satan-worshipping guns in this perfect civilized world we all live in".

secondly, that entire second half of your argument is infantile. nowhere does it suggest the RESPONSIBILITY that i have stated, and restated, in needing to deal with this threat appropriately; and IN DETAIL.

again, i'm repeating myself ad nauseam. if you want to keep doing this, then i invite you to join minion in abandoning "helping me" in this thread.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted March 21, 2018 02:37 PM

fred, you're the bane of self-constructed strawmen.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 21, 2018 02:48 PM

what... what's that? you ate the whole... wheel of cheese? and... and you pooped in the refrigerator?


actually, i'm not even mad. i'm impressed.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 42 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 ... 38 39 40 41 42 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0824 seconds