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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: mass shootings in the u.s.
Thread: mass shootings in the u.s. This thread is 19 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 · «PREV / NEXT»
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 09, 2015 08:57 PM

Just out of curiosity: since when are people avoiding to do things they know they are immoral. While the obvious examples are Christian, I hasten to add that this is coincidental because we know Christian moral ideas and we know about confession. You confess what you did, although you knew it to be wrong - otherwise you wouldn't confess in the first place.

Which means, actually, that it's even common knowledge that people do immoral things al the time, even though they know they act immorally.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted December 09, 2015 09:07 PM

The ambiguity is in the word "know". There are different levels of knowledge - if I have to sit down and think hard about something but am able to figure it out, it seems reasonable to say that I know it to a lesser degree than if I can automatically access it at relevant times without having to devote any attention to it. Similarly, being able to correctly answer the question "Is X immoral?" requires less complete of an understanding than thinking "X is immoral, so I shouldn't do it" when you're about to do it.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 09, 2015 10:54 PM

I have no idea why you say that. People do things they know are wrong all the time - that's the root of all evil, so-to-speak.

The problem is, that we are not entirely rational, so knowing what is moral is one thing, but keeping to it quite another.

Of course - morales might be total crap, designed to minimize problems for the community, but in total disregard of the realities of individual existence. Might explain a lot.

Or, in plain English: Who cares whether something is immoral or not?

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Svartzorn
Svartzorn


Known Hero
Dead struggling with death.
posted December 10, 2015 12:52 AM

Serafim said:
Always found it funny how the American media avoids the words "christian terrorist" when it is the case.


When is the case?
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 10, 2015 01:29 AM

media's still spouting the same recycled garbage on the 2 shooters. you know, back in the 80's, they were big on serial killers. meaning, that if they had news on serial killings or killers, they kept televising it. if i remember right, they were told by the feds or whoever that constantly televising serial killer content put serial killers in the limelight, and gave them exactly what they wanted: publicity. which means, that they were better inclined to continue(not that they need a reason to continue, but the media certainly gave them what they wanted).

so now that that's not a thing the media does anymore, why do they think it's ok to constantly televise each mass shooting? why hasn't anyone told them to shut their yaps? that they're feeding INTO this kind of thing? that an individual inclined for fame through whatever means, might view their, *ahem*, encouragement as a reason to commit their own mass shooting?

at this point in time, mass shooters are getting what they want: fame through killing. the media just keep the mass-killing ball rolling. how do they not see that? did they not learn anything from all the attention they gave serial killers?

the way i see it, the amount of mass shootings directly correlates with how much media time they get. the media is hugely to blame for these events' constant occurence. and yet, nobody's telling them that they're wrong. everybody is only focusing on the shooters, and gun control. they're not focusing on the climates that keep fueling mass shootings, which is why these killings will continue at an increased pace.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted December 10, 2015 01:47 AM
Edited by Minion at 03:46, 10 Dec 2015.

Did you know... From September 11, 2001, until the end of 2014, terrorism by Muslim-Americans killed 50 in the time period. Contrast that with the deaths from other mass shootings just last year: 136 -- more than twice as many as all the deaths from 13 years of Muslim-American terrorism.
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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted December 10, 2015 02:16 AM

fred79 said:


at this point in time, mass shooters are getting what they want: fame through killing.

the way i see it, the amount of mass shootings directly correlates with how much media time they get.


That's what the cops and such tells us ( at least in Canada! ) but it's far from true all the time. Some do it for that, yes, but I believe it's just a general excuse to hide other real "reasons" why they do so. It's a little true but mostly an excuse to censor the actual truth.

Heck, we all remember columbine and how they even started blaming Marilyn Manson. Truth is those kids were given brain disabling psychiatric drugs since a young age with the typical psychiatric process of evaluation ( a 5 minute interview followed by drugs chosen randomly from a list, in which the doctor tells him "come back to me if they don't make you feel good" ). But oh crap, we can't say those drugs had something to do with it, yeah?

You know the media is a crap source of information no matter where you look for it.

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted December 10, 2015 02:50 AM

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”


Could not said it any better myself Yoda. It's horrible to watch and hear what is happening all-over the world. Even in here, Finland we have problem whit the refugees. Now, I think it's great that we are helping these people, but not everyone here accept that. Then some of these refugees have raped finnish girls. Of course the finnish people retaliate whit fear and hate. Now, I see my daughter, relatives and many more filled whit rage and racism towards any muslim or just little darker skintone. Even some idiot in our parliament said: "My prayers has been answered!" When somobody burned safehouse of these refugees. Don't you people see what you're doing. We are atheist contry (namely christian) but it does not mather what religion you are on or not. If only our leaders where strong, firm, humble and smart they could make a difference. Not much into politics myself but do people really think guys like Trump can make a difference?


One more Yoda: ..beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will..
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 10, 2015 03:33 AM

Kayna said:
fred79 said:


at this point in time, mass shooters are getting what they want: fame through killing.

the way i see it, the amount of mass shootings directly correlates with how much media time they get.


That's what the cops and such tells us ( at least in Canada! ) but it's far from true all the time. Some do it for that, yes, but I believe it's just a general excuse to hide other real "reasons" why they do so.


which is why i also posted "not that they need a reason to continue". the media making something famous through broadcasting and repetition is only a symptom of the problem. it isn't the problem in it's entirety.

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Elvin's Lightside
posted December 10, 2015 03:49 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 03:57, 10 Dec 2015.

Minion said:
Did you know... From September 11, 2001, until the end of 2014, terrorism by Muslim-Americans killed 50 in the time period. Contrast that with the deaths from other mass shootings just last year: 136 -- more than twice as many as all the deaths from 13 years of Muslim-American terrorism.


Which says everything about a double standard in fear.

The shootings all put together equals one Paris attack.
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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Bad-mannered
Legendary Hero
Everywhere and nowhere
posted December 10, 2015 07:31 PM
Edited by Drakon-Deus at 19:38, 10 Dec 2015.

I tell the difference between fear and terror. Fear of the law, fear of authorities, fear of God or gods, etc, is what kept societies in order, like it or not, it is one of the factors.

They say all war is bad... so war against invaders or against corrupt rulers was bad too? Force has solved more conflicts than diplomacy ever did.


Nothing to do with Islam or terrorism, just saying.

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Serafim
Serafim


Hired Hero
posted December 11, 2015 12:12 AM

Svartzorn said:
Serafim said:
Always found it funny how the American media avoids the words "christian terrorist" when it is the case.


When is the case?

Last time there was a guy who killed people in a Planned Parenthood Clinic.

He wanted to stop "killing" fetuses by killing hte people at the clinic.
A US veteran also died in the attack.

The media called that guy "Shooter" "Gunman".

This guy:
[urö]https://www.rt.com/usa/325295-planned-parenthood-shooter-guilt-court/[/url]

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted December 11, 2015 01:10 AM

I read about that christian terrorist attack. US is a christian country and there are religious weirdoes who use their 'religion' on their own ends. What's the good of it, if you don't live up to it's principles? Thou shall not kill? What I wrote earlier about fear and hate, what causes these things is just that.

DD said correctly, no fear of God and laws leads to corrubtion. For me, I could not murder cold blood somebody or even myself, not because I can't but because I fear God more than anything (in heathly way). If people would have this fear, consequences in afterlife, whe would have safer world.

Other thing is clear, is this christianity? Would Jesus do this? If somebody does thing like this and calls it: The will of God, he is absolutely crazy! It's Charles Manson category. Don't judge book by it's cover.

Even tough this is not everyday thing, I fear we will see this kinda madness in future too. Hitler was considered as a 'christian' in it's time. He used Luthers anti semitism writings for his own agendas and church FOLLOWED. Not all but still, christians turning on God's own people, how twisted is that!

In US religion is bit culture thing. In crime tv shows the mafia boss goes to church as any other. I don't know if this is true but it draws picture quite clear. It's just 'religion' nothing about following Jesus, being disciple.

It's dark times and only getting worse. My symbathy world..

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted December 11, 2015 02:32 AM

Wait... weren't you Homer just days ago warning about fear with Yoda quotes? How it leads to anger and hate. And now it is your guiding principle I sense a Sith among us ;P
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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted December 11, 2015 05:00 AM
Edited by Homer171 at 05:14, 11 Dec 2015.

Minion said:
Wait... weren't you Homer just days ago warning about fear with Yoda quotes? How it leads to anger and hate. And now it is your guiding principle I sense a Sith among us ;P



You got me there

Sorry for not saying it properly. Fear of men is a term used when we globally fear each others and our expectation run wild. Fear.. oh you know what i mean, fear can be dangerous (caution often good tough)

Fear of God is bible term, where you respect God judgement. I'm not scared of God but i would not dare to kill anyone because His judgements are real and I rescpect His authority. I don't fear failing in life but can't do something where heart says DON'T!

Does this make any sense to you? I know, might sound so stupid when you read this...You probably wonder: Sooo, Homer you're saying there is good fear and then there is this bad fear. Is atheist fear the bad one and religious the good one, you lost me there (I knew he was an idiot).

Confusing I may be, happens to every guy sometimes this does
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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted December 11, 2015 05:32 AM
Edited by Minion at 05:36, 11 Dec 2015.

I don't think a law is good if people fear it. The normal laws that forbid you from doing stuff don't evoke fear in people. And the society works fine. If they DO make people fear then laws are unjust, and belong to a totalitarian country.

Fear of god I wont go into, it is more personal. Generally speaking I favor the Yoda philosphy tho lol. Btw this is getting off-topic too much
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted December 11, 2015 06:50 AM


Quote:
Last time there was a guy who killed people in a Planned Parenthood Clinic.


You checked wrong.   The man is a pothead who beat his wife and son, shot neighborhood dogs, threatened neighbors(who got restraining orders against him) and is a peeping Tom and now a murderer.  Those are not marks of a Christian.

Also, while the Quran says to convert, enslave, or kill infidels, the New Testament says no such thing.  Jesus said to love and pray for even your enemy.

Mohammed and his disciples were warriors who slew those who opposed Islam.  Jesus and his disciples did no such thing. Jesus said he has no earthly kingdom.

In Islam there is a sizable minority that support violent jihad.  You will not find Christian support for killing abortionists for murdering young humans.

If you can quote any New Testament passage where Christians are told to kill anyone for any sin please do so.  
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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Bad-mannered
Legendary Hero
Everywhere and nowhere
posted December 11, 2015 07:11 AM
Edited by Drakon-Deus at 07:17, 11 Dec 2015.

Early Christians did not kill anyone. However, Romans did, and Roman Catholics did too. It's part of history, I am not against the Church itself, but those men.

And as for fear, I think all main 7 emotions: Rage, Greed, Fear, Willpower, Hope, Compassion and Love have their use, with limits.

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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted December 11, 2015 09:25 AM

Are not all of these terrorist just criminals pretending religious people?

On the other hand how would you feel if you had Carthaginians neighbours who are about to kill their children because of some their beliefs?

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Bad-mannered
Legendary Hero
Everywhere and nowhere
posted December 11, 2015 09:33 AM

There are many religious people who learned to put aside radicalism,and some who didn't. Simple.

That and nothing more I have to say on this subject.

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