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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: mass shootings in the u.s.
Thread: mass shootings in the u.s. This thread is 42 pages long: 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... 20 30 40 42 · «PREV / NEXT»
Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 13, 2016 09:45 PM
Edited by Stevie at 21:46, 13 Jun 2016.

Kayna said:
It's hard, otherwise, to explain why he would target gay people over military personnel.


Hard to explain why he targeted gays over military? What the actual snow...
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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted June 13, 2016 09:50 PM
Edited by Kayna at 21:50, 13 Jun 2016.

Hey, when we listen to an angry ISIS member, it's what they say. "I'm angry that you Americans keep meddling in our affairs and bomb us, and now, let's shoot gays."


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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted June 13, 2016 10:06 PM

Well yeah, but one man against the whole military?

Regardless, I think this attack was some sort of provocation. Everyone has guns, USA is supposed to be liberal, democratic and all that, only to be spit upon by this murderer. I don't find it strange the "big", western countries have incidents like these, either.
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted June 13, 2016 10:10 PM

@Salamandre

Yeah, the video you linked to shows what Islamic Sharia Law says to do to gays.  Many times they are killed in a very horrible manner.


It would be comforting to think the Orlando attack was done by a person who was merely mentally ill but this was an act of war.  Our democrat politicians refuse to acknowledge Islamic supremacists are waging war on us.  When war comes knocking you will answer the door or have it kicked down.  War has kicked down our door.  The enemy is in our house.  We can rise from slumber and fight or sleep and die.

Political correctness is cloaking the enemy and results in many innocents dying.  In This case & the San Bernadino attack people saw suspicious things but said they were afraid to say anything for fear of being called an Islamophobe.


Political correctness is an enemy of liberty and security. Pretending there is no enemy will not protect us. It will result in our destruction.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted June 13, 2016 11:12 PM
Edited by Minion at 23:15, 13 Jun 2016.

Salamandre said:
When is muslim and kills, is mentally ill.


His ex-wife said that he has mental issues. Do you have a point in this nonsense?
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 13, 2016 11:30 PM

Yep, was pointing to your hypocrisy, in case you didn't grasp it.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 13, 2016 11:30 PM

Kayna said:
It's always a mix of things. Seeing his own kin being bombarded, his sympathy for the Muslims over there which becomes a radicalization of Islam, and the shooting itself.

What angers and justifies him is what his fellow Americans did in Afghanistan and Iraq, yet goes in a shooting spree in a gay bar rather than shooting cops, army guys, politicians and such. Why would he aim gays?

Because they're an unarmed, easier target?
Because he really believes gay people are bringing natural plagues like earthquakes and such?

I blame mostly mental illness and religion. Or perhaps "implanting ideas" sounds more accurate. He was mentally weak and someone implanted ideas in his head. It's hard, otherwise, to explain why he would target gay people over military personnel.


This can be called semi-accurate. A gay bar to a Jihadist represents degeneration but unlike a conservative Westerner who can also see it as degeneration of his own values, it is the degeneration of a/from a hostile culture. So, it's a symbolical target not apart from the political context. For example, if you read the Breivik manifesto, you can see that the immigrants he shot were the symbol of an invasion in his eyes, they were intruders transforming society into something it shouldn't turn into.

Was the shooter mentally ill, maybe. He doesn't have to be totally delusional but such people are usually deranged to a certain level. It's different than a collective act of executing gays, as in some ISIS mercenaries would do in a more "professional" manner in Syria where they are in control. Lone hit men such as this have no meaning or achievement in their life, it's a way to "realize" themselves, turn into something significant. One can safely say, trying that by massacring people is sufficient enough to categorize you as a sick individual but he doesn't have to be psychotic in the "I had a chat with aliens during lunch break" kind of way.

Radical Islam exists and we should all be alert against it but analyzing radical Islam sorely as some theological cancer is misguided. No religious text is strong enough to determine or freeze social norms by itself. The Old Testament is just as aggressive against gays and even if you say "oh, but the humanism in the New Testament changes everything," why don't pious Jews massacre gays in the name of religion? So, from the politicians' perspective, the point of not turning this into a religious conflict would be about not alienating moderate Muslims and radicalizing even more people. I hardly think to achieve that, ignoring radical Islam is the way to go but it's a very sensitive subject when you don't want your own Muslim citizens to feel that all of them are seen as potential serial killers, especially when you have enough rednecks on your hand who are ready and happy to jump to that conclusion.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 13, 2016 11:37 PM

Oh artu, but we don't want to create a religious war. We would be happy if such massive immigration is stopped, then if we send back those being illegally in Europe, thing which never happens. if only we could apply the laws, I think a lot of people would be satisfied. Then if the remaining ones feel discriminated because illegals were expelled, they can also leave.

Europe does not need muslims or minorities, it is the muslims and the minorities who need Europe.  
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted June 13, 2016 11:41 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 00:07, 14 Jun 2016.

Minion said:
Such a devastating event, I couldn't help but tearing up when the story started to unfold. Such mindless.. hate... violence. The worst mass shooting in US history. This apparently mentally ill, wife-beating homophobe with ties to ISIS can't be denied an assault-rifle? That is insanity.


He needs to have an assault rifle in case the government - according to his individual and subjective standards - tries to oppress him, that way he can make an entirely individual and subjective judgement for when it is time to start using lethal force and then apply it.

And - guess what guys - that is exactly what just happened. He made an individual, subjective determination that IS values are the just form of government and that the US is corrupt, and he applied lethal force towards the most immediate target that he deemed fit.



This is why subjective, mob-based determinations for when you deserve to "rise up" are completely bogus and always will be. The neoconservative interpretation of the 2nd amendment is vigilantism at best and terrorism at worst.

So for those that ardently defend the neoconservative interpretation of gun rights: you've just seen your plan in action, just like you saw it in action in California. A 'hero' has risen up to strike down his oppressors. His name is Omar Mateen. He struck down 50 enemies.  
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 13, 2016 11:45 PM

Salamandre said:
Europe does not need muslims or minorities, it is the muslims and the minorities who need Europe

We already discussed why this is not exactly the whole truth in the related thread, so I won't go into it again. Let me just say I mainly agree with the Zizek article I shared a while ago, although I have some reservations about his points here and there.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 13, 2016 11:52 PM

@artu

Well, you know what I mean. There will always be an invisible immigration, which is natural, which is mixing well, which has the desire of assimilation, which knows the respect and will not butcher its host. I am part of that immigration.

Is rather hypocrite that liberal leftists (we call them islamo leftist here) consider that Europe is xenophobic and racist, while there are more than 50 nationalities in each country; for example France has 1 million Russians, 1 million Armenians, twice as many Chinese, and in 20 years here I didn't see even one of them complaining of discrimination or racism.

Is always the same who complain, no matter the country or the continent, like xenophobia was a virus being activated by same and same pattern. I say this is bollocks.
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted June 14, 2016 12:25 AM

Information continues to come out about the shooter.  The FBI says he had scouted Disney World as a possible target also.  


My guess is one reason he chose the bar is people basically had nowhere to run, unlike a vet open Disney World.  The bar had only one way in and out because the back door was chained and locked.

I really do not see the evidence pointing to anything other than a jihadi attack, not a psychotic episode.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/orlando-shooter-visited-saudi-arabia-twice-on-pilgrimage-1465828337

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted June 14, 2016 12:55 AM
Edited by Minion at 01:20, 14 Jun 2016.

Salamandre said:
Yep, was pointing to your hypocrisy, in case you didn't grasp it.


What hypocrisy... I don't advocate using the term rape culture. And I don't certainly think all muslims who kill are mentally ill. I said this individual might be, according to his ex-wife... why is this pissing you off so much? I wonder.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 14, 2016 05:49 PM
Edited by Corribus at 18:51, 14 Jun 2016.

It's incredible the mental gymnastics you go through to disconnect Islam from crimes carried out in its name. There are a lot of ****s in the world, there are lot of guns in the world, there are a lot of angry young men playing violent video games in the world. And yet in every corner of the world on a daily basis there are acts of terror carried out in the name of one particular ideology. If it were any other ideology you -and Kiryu- always connect the dots, but so deep is the indoctrination and cognitive dissonance that you will make the most insane rationalizations -or work around- to absolve Islam of guilt for anything.

Islam does not tolerate homosexuality, it's a religious crime, the penalty for which is death. You either support gay's right to life, or you tolerate Islam. Pick a snowing side.
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 14, 2016 06:30 PM

Salamandre said:
It's incredible the mental gymnastics you go through to disconnect Islam from crimes carried out in its name.

I can't even lift 1 single argument like that.
Salamandre said:
There are a lot of cun*s in the world, there are lot of guns in the world, there are a lot of angry young men playing violent video games in the world. And yet in every corner of the world on a daily basis there are acts of terror carried out in the name of one particular ideology. If it were any other ideology you -and Kiryu- always connect the dots, but so deep is the indoctrination and cognitive dissonance that you will make the most insane rationalizations -or work around- to absolve Islam of guilt for anything.
/Nod.

Salamandre said:
Islam does not tolerate homosexuality, it's a religious crime, the penalty for which is death. You either support gay's right to life, or you tolerate Islam. Pick a snowing side.

/nod. Again.

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted June 14, 2016 07:10 PM
Edited by Warmonger at 19:11, 14 Jun 2016.

There are many mental fanatics all over the world, but only in USA you can buy a machine gun in a corner shop. Even if you're blind of suspect of terrorism.

As someone pointed out, we would have exactly same massacres in Poland if far-right guys got guns and priests blessing.
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 14, 2016 07:14 PM
Edited by Ebonheart at 19:16, 14 Jun 2016.

Warmonger said:
There are many mental fanatics all over the world, but only in USA you can buy a machine gun in a corner shop. Even if you're blind of suspect of terrorism.
Frankly, no. You can get your hands on guns and TNT in any country on any black market, it's all a matter of contacts and cash.
Warmonger said:
As someone pointed out, we would have exactly same massacres in Poland if far-right guys got guns and priests blessing.
Or far-left guys. Where one stands on the political scale does not matter. Both right and left have committed atrocious acts of murder under the common cliché "For the greater good".
But Poland has a very different culture aswell, thus another factor to take into the equation.

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted June 14, 2016 07:15 PM

is there where I point out that factually, you are over 5 times more likely to be killed by a white right-wing extremist than a Muslim in EU/USA? Of course, some people don't care about the facts because it won't meet the reality they've created for themselves out of fear and paranoia.

Can we just stop with the "oh noes the muslims!" BS now? It is not "Islam" that did this but a lone man already known to be violent and aggressive behavior who somehow still had access to fully automatic weaponry.

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted June 14, 2016 07:16 PM
Edited by Gryphs at 19:16, 14 Jun 2016.

Warmonger said:
There are many mental fanatics all over the world, but only in USA you can buy a machine gun in a corner shop. Even if you're blind of suspect of terrorism.

As someone pointed out, we would have exactly same massacres in Poland if far-right guys got guns and priests blessing.
It's true, but even basic background checks have failed to pass. Unfortunately, any regulation what so ever is spun as oppression so it is unlikely the mentally ill will be unable to legally acquire guns anytime soon.
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 14, 2016 07:21 PM

kiryu133 said:
is there where I point out that factually, you are over 5 times more likely to be killed by a white right-wing extremist than a Muslim in EU/USA?
The same chance applies to a left-wing or anyone doing something because they believe they are so f***ing right.
kiryu133 said:
Of course, some people don't care about the facts because it won't meet the reality they've created for themselves out of fear and paranoia.
What facts would that be exactly and for whom?

kiryu133 said:
Can we just stop with the "oh noes the muslims!" BS now? It is not "Islam" that did this but a lone man already known to be violent and aggressive behavior who somehow still had access to fully automatic weaponry.

Or how about we stop denying the fact that Islam does have its role in this and leave it at that? People can committ horrible things in the name and faith of anything and Islam is no exception.

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